Using marshmallows to catch steelhead....

[irishfield]

I still think "aniceguy" is the one who had a picture of him holding a stringer of bass out of Midland's little lake a few years ago....now thats unethical

 

Don't know Spookd... the picture quickly disappeared when you mentioned it last time.

 

As for unethical.. I don't know, but definitely unhealthy out of Little Lake.

[aniceguy]

wow gotta love it....

 

Went and looked through a pile of pics to find this mysterious stinger filled with bass....so here is that mysterious pic that seems to be brought up from time to time....

 

Little Lake yuk.....great lake for pan fish with a small boat and the kids (nice icecream place too) but to eat a bass come on shake the heads boys.....

 

Photoshop and enlarge the pic as much as you can last I remember there was no stringer through this fish......

 

just so we are crystal clear

 

 

but thanks for the reminder I cant believe how much grayer I am these days

 

so are we going to go back to a discussion in earnest or are you good ole boys into some more mud

 

Burt no Point really going there......

Edited April 30, 2008 by aniceguy

[jonnybass]

Not judging you (stringer or no stringer), but it does look like a stringer to me. Nice bass regardless.

[Gerritt]

I bet it tasted great cooked over an open fire...

[bassman]

hmmmmm

[aniceguy]

ya but they had ann margret in the middle

[GBW]

Come on, fish know it just like you do and that’s why they go for them. They are magically delicious. Oh wait, those are the ones in Lucky Charms…

 

*heading out to store for a bag and going to toss in river **note to self OPEN BAG**

Edited April 30, 2008 by Geoff W

[danbo]

[Greencoachdog]

You know jonnybass, aniceguy sure could have gave you some thorough answers on your other thread (Steelhead Spawning., Looking for a definitive answer), maybe if you had been willing to listen to his responses here.

 

It seems that some (not all) of the posters cutting up the people with the lining theory have never caught a steelhead or salmon before? Isn't that worse them commenting on this topic than the "elitist float fishermen"...

 

I use a float rod and reel (for about 3 years now) and I am no where near "elitist"... it is a lot of fun though...

 

Burt

 

... and just because you've caught a steelhead or salmon it makes you better than those that haven't??? gimme a break!!!... that's the kinda snob stuff I mentioned earlier!!!

[highdrifter]

I just picked up a book from my local library branch entitled Great Fishing In Lake Ontario & Tributaries by Rich Giessuebel. It came out in 1986 so it's a little dated but it's still a good read. He mentions using small marshmallows as bait for catching steelhead and I've never heard of this technique. Does anyone do this? Does this really produce fish?

 

"small marshmallows as bait for catching steelhead"... Ya had it there BC. marshmallows-bait-steelhead. Let's try not to stray too far from the subject. They can work brilliantly. Heck, presented properly, marshmallows can imitate anything from a clump of eggs to pellets that hatchery trout are fed with. Roe bags are basically a clump of eggs held together with mesh and thread. Just like the roe we were using on Saturday. Marshmallows could have made for a good alternative. We were working some pretty clear water, so downsizing our presentation was a must for those skittish trout, which is why we were going small and as natural as possible. However, if the water we were fishing was higher and dirtier, we could have used bigger, brighter roe bags, say in hot pink or chartreuse. The stuff we get in small jars like the power eggs from Berkley works well in this situation, because they're a fair size, have bright colours and have scent. Sooo technically, we could have used them.

 

Mind you, the fish we were after were actually feeding. That's why steelheading is so much more interesting. We would have used them on a proper rig, under a slip float, with shot spaced on the line to give it a natural drift, all the while keeping out bait within strike range. Roe, marshmallows, flies, worms... if it looks like food, the fish will probably eat it. The fish are attracted by the sight, and smell of these baits, and they strike them out of hunger. Which, among those who consider themselves experts, is ethical.

 

This brings to mind the heated debate of using them in estuaries and river mouths. Same bait, different application. The application I’m familiar with is your basic slip rig. I know this because I was introduced to salmon fishing this way. It’s a no fail way to hooking in salmon when they’re running or staging at the mouths. I remember lining up with some buddies at the first weir at old mill in the Humber river. We used egg sinkers and floating roe bags. We’d cast them out and simply wait for a salmon to swim into our lines. Being young and naive, we thought that the salmon were actually smashing our bait. I’ve since wizened to that. Not only do salmon start to deteriorate once they enter the streams, they do not feed. That’s why I feel for those who know what this method is all about. When your line is held stationary in moving water, with a length of line leading to floating bait, the fish will eventually swim into it and get hooked. The odds of that happening at a river mouth are pretty good, as the fish are concentrated in a small area.

 

Sooo, rather than get our knickers in a bind, I’d invite those who know better to educate instead eating a simple question and turning it into a steaming pile of crap. Those who use this technique for salmon in the fall know that it isn’t exactly legit. Still, it’s not exactly snagging fish with a weighted treble...

 

Cheers

HD

Edited April 30, 2008 by Highdrifter

[l2p]

Way to stand your ground, the educated few.

[jonnybass]

Way to stand your ground, the educated few.

 

And which side of the marshmallow debate represents the "educated few" may I ask?

[solopaddler]

Louis is a true warrior for the efforts to protect our salmonid fishery with CRAA.

He deserves respect

 

This much is true. There is quite possibly no one in this province who devotes more personal time and energy to the fishery than Louis...and not just with CRAA.

I know from experience he's passionate about his beliefs... unfortunately he sometimes rubs people the wrong way with his choice of words while trying to get the point across .

[Burtess]

... and just because you've caught a steelhead or salmon it makes you better than those that haven't??? gimme a break!!!... that's the kinda snob stuff I mentioned earlier!!!

 

Please read my post again..... you misinterpereted what I was trying to say.

 

Take a look at your avatar, you are holding some sort of larger catfish, I don't know if it is a channel or a blue or what, but since I don't fish them, and really don't have much knowledge of them, I don't post about them.

 

I would not get in a debate about stripped bass caught off a beach in the salt, because I have no experience with that situation.

 

I am far from an elitist!! And I never said I was better than anyone else. Please don't read these into my posts....

 

I am still new with the centerpin method. I still fish with worms... but I have fished with marshmallows and have caught many salmon this way when I was younger, and watched many people do it also. So I figured I had some experience with this topic and would comment...

 

Burt

[Greencoachdog]

Please read my post again..... you misinterpereted what I was trying to say.

 

Take a look at your avatar, you are holding some sort of larger catfish, I don't know if it is a channel or a blue or what, but since I don't fish them, and really don't have much knowledge of them, I don't post about them.

 

I would not get in a debate about stripped bass caught off a beach in the salt, because I have no experience with that situation.

 

I am far from an elitist!! And I never said I was better than anyone else. Please don't read these into my posts....

 

I am still new with the centerpin method. I still fish with worms... but I have fished with marshmallows and have caught many salmon this way when I was younger, and watched many people do it also. So I figured I had some experience with this topic and would comment...

 

Burt

 

Dang Burt! How many last times are you gonna post Bubba?

 

Sorry about the snobbishnish reply, but that's the impression I got from reading your posts.

 

Just because I haven't caught a Trout or Salmon, doesn't mean I haven't studied them! People use marshmallows down here for Catfish and whatever else they can catch with them, they use them in the tailrace areas of dams in the current and it is the action of the marshmallow in the current that attracts and triggers strikes. If you'll think about it, the idea of ringing a swimming fish in the mouth with a flailing marshmallow in current is pretty absurd... and nobody has refuted mt earlier comment about fly fishing with nymphs, streamers, and worms wouldn't be the same thing if you could indeed float a foriegn object into a swimming fishes mouth... but that's ok because it done with a fly rod?

 

I still get the impression that mallow fish is looked down upon because it is so low tech and "It's just not done that way". Like some Bass fishermen that use artificials only look down upon those that use bait, or others that would look down upon someone fishin' from a bank with a cane pole and a gob of Wheaties for Carp.

 

... and now you tell us you used to be a snagger but quit?... and that doesn't sound hypocritical to you?

 

Who should really care if someone uses mallows for bait as long as the fish is hooked inside the mouth and limits are abided by? Noone has yet to post the reg that say mallows are illegal.

 

I've found that ones ethics and morals are best kept to and abided by ones self in a situation like this.

 

May the next worm you float into a Salmonoids mouth be a PB for ya Bubba!!!

 

Glen

[snag]

Hey Billy,

 

Congrats,

 

You've been inducted into the "Runaway Thread" club!

 

 

 

Hope to see you next Thurs. for pike.

 

I was thinking a soft banjo bag would make a great rod and gear bag!

 

S.

[Stoty]

Wow!

 

Crazy how many "expert" trout fisherman there are on this site eh!

Almost as many "expert" trout fisherman, as there are "experts" on hockey!

 

If someone wants to fish with a bloody marshmallow, so be it. Doesnt mean he is "lining" a fish or doing anything illegal. You can "line" a fish with a number of baits. But being "experts" I assume you already know that.

 

If it makes you feel like a bigger man, and a better fisherman to tell him to stop..then good for you.

[aniceguy]

Well Well

 

Woke up to see a few more posts added to this absurd topic.

 

Not withstanding the 30 hrs a week I dedicate to them, or the hundreds of papers I have read, hundreds of discussions with scientists, to fishing them with a major passion for a very long time, lets go at this once and for all.

 

 

Life History of this fish places it for 2 plus years in a river ( if its a migratory)in that time it is constantly looking up and feeding on what's floating down, a pre smolt, or resident fish will take a nip at anything that resembles food, its triggered visually ( although most rainbows' sit in generally faster flows over the warmer weather) and as such the acuity is dependent on water clarity, and hydrology ( flow)

and a sense of smell.

 

Many of these rainbow smolts in our locale have a diet ( where available ) some theroies have of up to 90% sucker fry but as opportunistic feeders will dine on it all.

 

Now lets talk baits from organics to non organics.

 

Firstly as I said trout are opportunitistic feeders in their natal environment, that's not always the case in a migratory run, where angling pressure, hydrology, life history adoption in a lake environment change the game slightly.

 

If we are fishing deep pools or runs with the right shot technique the bait is getting down to the bottom 1/4 of the water, with today's fluorocarbon lines light is refracted and virtually invisible and the fish don't see it coming, but again as opportunistic feeders might take a nip, and in some cases won't.

 

Given that generally at those depth's a lot of color perception is lost to steelhead it becomes more of a " pre programming" and smell instinct bite, these fish will move away from certain baits such as a marshmallow, oversized jig, so on and so on on in many cases ( not always but in overwhelming majority) they will however hone in on baits that should be there, bugs, roe , and after a freshet worms etc....

 

Now we talk alternatives such as used in BC corkies flies pink worms and beyond. If one looks at a corkie closely you will see that it is generally a round object many times has a propeller added and as such drifting in a river looks very close to a piece of skein or a chunk or roe again generally used in BC simply due to the fact that geomorphology of these rivers is condusive to that sort of rig, will it catch fish here sure but with other baits available that provide and infinitely higher hook up ratio many don't use them.

 

Flies in their nature are designed to look like food and as such are quite effective, in certain instances and days might out produce an organic such as roe or worms. Pinkies are the same they look like a juvenile worm, mind you I don't know many pink worms but it is one color that does penetrate the lower quadrant of water and as such presents its self as a reddish to cream colored bait as the color is filtered out, almost spot on in fact to a sub species of worm living in close proximity to river banks, ( I don't recall the species butI recall seeing its color and it was darn close to a pinkie when in deeper water )

 

Now we move to marshmallow's we have the camp fire sized ones and the mini's

 

Using them in an estuary first for staging Chinook. Chinook are larger fish and are also notorious for gasping mouths this is due to the gravid nature of death and the need for more O2 to flow along the gill rakes, it makes them a prime target for this technique of floating a marshmallow above a bell sinker add some fluorocarbon or PtFE coated line and its a recipe for lots of hook ups, all the while 999.9999 out of 1000 not being a legitimate hook call it what it is but thats the truth.

 

Now we talk the small mellows in a stream environment targeting migratory rainbows.

 

Sitting in a pool, the simple nature of presentation is going to get it right down in its nose, will that rainbow bite or move away, I will wager to say that 99.9% of the time its going to move away for some of the reasons mentioned, now go and add some fluorocarbon line minimal weight and a long leader and there is the recipe for a foul hooked fish, and while the angler thinks its a take down in reality its a fish that had the bait floated into its mouth. In the vast majority of cases this same rule applies to a run or riffle where these fish will hold once water temps rise.

 

To make a summation.

 

Yes even a cigarette butt will ( in the right presentation) hook a rainbow, yes even a marshmallow will hook a rainbow, in fact I know a pool right now where with the right presentation you will hook double digits with this bait, but and here is the but, 99.9999% of those fish will be force fed or in fact snagged simply due to the undulating nature of this bait thats in its self is loaded with air and designed to float, with so many viable alternatives out there and given the matter of fact above I cant understand why would anyone use this bait other then for the simple fact that they don't care if the fish eats and are quite happy to just hook one rather then hook one fairly.

 

Now go ask a CO if the charge was fair as the hook was buried under its chin or in the side of the chin due to the simple nature of the bait and see where it goes from there even though you saw the float go down and the fish had the headshakes

 

Mike and others thanks for your comments........and again personal attacks not withstanding if this educates 2 people then its a good thing, If your interested in more information feel free to PM me

[aniceguy]

Well Well

 

Woke up to see a few more posts added to this absurd topic.

 

Not withstanding the 30 hrs a week I dedicate to them, or the hundreds of papers I have read, hundreds of discussions with scientists, to fishing them with a major passion for a very long time, lets go at this once and for all.

 

 

Life History of this fish places it for 2 plus years in a river ( if its a migratory)in that time it is constantly looking up and feeding on what's floating down, a pre smolt, or resident fish will take a nip at anything that resembles food, its triggered visually ( although most rainbows' sit in generally faster flows over the warmer weather) and as such the acuity is dependent on water clarity, and hydrology ( flow)

and a sense of smell.

 

Many of these rainbow smolts in our locale have a diet ( where available ) some theroies have of up to 90% sucker fry but as opportunistic feeders will dine on it all.

 

Now lets talk baits from organics to non organics.

 

Firstly as I said trout are opportunitistic feeders in their natal environment, that's not always the case in a migratory run, where angling pressure, hydrology, life history adoption in a lake environment change the game slightly.

 

If we are fishing deep pools or runs with the right shot technique the bait is getting down to the bottom 1/4 of the water, with today's fluorocarbon lines light is refracted and virtually invisible and the fish don't see it coming, but again as opportunistic feeders might take a nip, and in some cases won't.

 

Given that generally at those depth's a lot of color perception is lost to steelhead it becomes more of a " pre programming" and smell instinct bite, these fish will move away from certain baits such as a marshmallow, oversized jig, so on and so on on in many cases ( not always but in overwhelming majority) they will however hone in on baits that should be there, bugs, roe , and after a freshet worms etc....

 

Now we talk alternatives such as used in BC corkies flies pink worms and beyond. If one looks at a corkie closely you will see that it is generally a round object many times has a propeller added and as such drifting in a river looks very close to a piece of skein or a chunk or roe again generally used in BC simply due to the fact that geomorphology of these rivers is condusive to that sort of rig, will it catch fish here sure but with other baits available that provide and infinitely higher hook up ratio many don't use them.

 

Flies in their nature are designed to look like food and as such are quite effective, in certain instances and days might out produce an organic such as roe or worms. Pinkies are the same they look like a juvenile worm, mind you I don't know many pink worms but it is one color that does penetrate the lower quadrant of water and as such presents its self as a reddish to cream colored bait as the color is filtered out, almost spot on in fact to a sub species of worm living in close proximity to river banks, ( I don't recall the species butI recall seeing its color and it was darn close to a pinkie when in deeper water )

 

Now we move to marshmallow's we have the camp fire sized ones and the mini's

 

Using them in an estuary first for staging Chinook. Chinook are larger fish and are also notorious for gasping mouths this is due to the gravid nature of death and the need for more O2 to flow along the gill rakes, it makes them a prime target for this technique of floating a marshmallow above a bell sinker add some fluorocarbon or PtFE coated line and its a recipe for lots of hook ups, all the while 999.9999 out of 1000 not being a legitimate hook call it what it is but thats the truth.

 

Now we talk the small mellows in a stream environment targeting migratory rainbows.

 

Sitting in a pool, the simple nature of presentation is going to get it right down in its nose, will that rainbow bite or move away, I will wager to say that 99.9% of the time its going to move away for some of the reasons mentioned, now go and add some fluorocarbon line minimal weight and a long leader and there is the recipe for a foul hooked fish, and while the angler thinks its a take down in reality its a fish that had the bait floated into its mouth. In the vast majority of cases this same rule applies to a run or riffle where these fish will hold once water temps rise.

 

To make a summation.

 

Yes even a cigarette butt will ( in the right presentation) hook a rainbow, yes even a marshmallow will hook a rainbow, in fact I know a pool right now where with the right presentation you will hook double digits with this bait, but and here is the but, 99.9999% of those fish will be force fed or in fact snagged simply due to the undulating nature of this bait thats in its self is loaded with air and designed to float, with so many viable alternatives out there and given the matter of fact above I cant understand why would anyone use this bait other then for the simple fact that they don't care if the fish eats and are quite happy to just hook one rather then hook one fairly.

 

Now go ask a CO if the charge was fair as the hook was buried under its chin or in the side of the chin due to the simple nature of the bait and see where it goes from there even though you saw the float go down and the fish had the headshakes

 

Mike and others thanks for your comments........and again personal attacks not withstanding if this educates 2 people then its a good thing, If your interested in more information feel free to PM me

[Marko]

One thing that i didnt understand is where did , people that say linning is illegal and using marshmallows is illegal, get their facts from.

I see people "linning" fish using all kinds of weird baits, starting with cigarete buts and yes marshmallow as well.

Never seen one of them get in trouble for it or because of it.

[Musky or Specks]

Steelhead just like any other fish will strike at the oddest baits, marshmallows included, believe me I've seen some bizarre things happen over the years.

 

That doesn't mean that someone would actually want to fish with one of those oddball baits when there's so many other ones that are much more effective.

 

By and large aniceguy is 100% correct. Marshmallows are most commonly used by anglers still fishing in river mouths and estuaries.

 

The marshmallow floats up off the bottom, the fish run up the river and run into the line, the line runs along the fishes open mouth until the business end is reached. They're invariably hooked on the outside corner of the mouth. This is where the term "lining" comes from.

Anything that floats up off the bottom, cigarrette butts, styrofoam, etc., is just as effective.

Steelhead will strike just about anything heres my proof a beautiful fresh fish caught on a 8" rouser while musky fishing

 

[capt bruce]

Johny bass and everyone else all bent out of shape read High drifters post I think he said it well . I remember the first years the browns came into bluffers in the fall I would sit all day at the launch and line browns never thinking anything of it as "wrong " would throw my line out with a 1 ounce weight and a mallow drop shot riged half way up , with a long cast I could run my line amost right across the pool, big kipped males would be lined easy , I would catch them let them go catch another again and again , because I was hooking them in the mouth no big deal . I had never heard of lining (I thought I was inventing a new way to hook fish ). THIS IS MUCH DIFFERENT than properly drifting a bait ,roe ,mallow or roe imation to a feeding fish. BECAUSE OF THE ease of ABUSE I think its not a way for the new to the sport to fish , MUCH BETTER TO TEACH new comers how to properly present a bait (mallow or otherwise)and than lineing would not become the issue it is . I agree LOTS OF GUYS fish mallows without lineing , the use the rigged properly presented properly but lots of guys line fish without KNOWING they are doing it because they just have not learned how to present a bait to a fish in a stream and just throw out a weighted floating line .I bought a big boat so I can go out into 350-400 feet of water and catch 50 or 60 bows a day every day (most days )all summer long and never see another fisher person for miles so I dont have to stream fish anymore lol I have taken out 8 people charters with all geting their 5 fish in a few hours when things are right 7 days a week , so much more fun to give this fish their due and fight them on long rods with light line in OPEN WATER (lol that will piss off the stream guys, I didnt mean anything just I dont like lots of people and trees and such getting in my way) ). I hope I got across what I wanted to say , I am not commenting to stir things up or to say anybody is WRONG , the more you learn the better fisher person you will become theres so much more FUN in fishing than just throwing out a line and hopeing something bites so instead of useing mallows and hopeing ,take the time to study baits and how to present them , tight lines .

[Musky or Specks]

"small marshmallows as bait for catching steelhead"... Ya had it there BC. marshmallows-bait-steelhead. Let's try not to stray too far from the subject. They can work brilliantly. Heck, presented properly, marshmallows can imitate anything from a clump of eggs to pellets that hatchery trout are fed with. Roe bags are basically a clump of eggs held together with mesh and thread. Just like the roe we were using on Saturday. Marshmallows could have made for a good alternative. We were working some pretty clear water, so downsizing our presentation was a must for those skittish trout, which is why we were going small and as natural as possible. However, if the water we were fishing was higher and dirtier, we could have used bigger, brighter roe bags, say in hot pink or chartreuse. The stuff we get in small jars like the power eggs from Berkley works well in this situation, because they're a fair size, have bright colours and have scent. Sooo technically, we could have used them.

 

Mind you, the fish we were after were actually feeding. That's why steelheading is so much more interesting. We would have used them on a proper rig, under a slip float, with shot spaced on the line to give it a natural drift, all the while keeping out bait within strike range. Roe, marshmallows, flies, worms... if it looks like food, the fish will probably eat it. The fish are attracted by the sight, and smell of these baits, and they strike them out of hunger. Which, among those who consider themselves experts, is ethical.

 

This brings to mind the heated debate of using them in estuaries and river mouths. Same bait, different application. The application I’m familiar with is your basic slip rig. I know this because I was introduced to salmon fishing this way. It’s a no fail way to hooking in salmon when they’re running or staging at the mouths. I remember lining up with some buddies at the first weir at old mill in the Humber river. We used egg sinkers and floating roe bags. We’d cast them out and simply wait for a salmon to swim into our lines. Being young and naive, we thought that the salmon were actually smashing our bait. I’ve since wizened to that. Not only do salmon start to deteriorate once they enter the streams, they do not feed. That’s why I feel for those who know what this method is all about. When your line is held stationary in moving water, with a length of line leading to floating bait, the fish will eventually swim into it and get hooked. The odds of that happening at a river mouth are pretty good, as the fish are concentrated in a small area.

 

Sooo, rather than get our knickers in a bind, I’d invite those who know better to educate instead eating a simple question and turning it into a steaming pile of crap. Those who use this technique for salmon in the fall know that it isn’t exactly legit. Still, it’s not exactly snagging fish with a weighted treble...

 

Cheers

HD

No but they will strike out of aggresion, another example heres a nice salmon from a labour day weekend on a buckertail

 

[blaque]

Ive taken part in the marshmallow technique years ago as well. Bottom bouncing them in Ontario Tribs......i think i tried it once or twice but did do well on them. I saw fish move to the mallo and strike it..........i also caught a few at the end of the drift with my bait just sitting there and felt the WRAP WRAP Smack of a hit.......most were little jacks. So i have proof that they will strike the mallow. Having said that i can see both sides of this arguement. There are guys that are fishing this legally and ethically with no ill intent, and there are guys rigging this up with the sole purpose of lining a fish or hooking a fish any way necassary.......i dont think this can be specifically attributed or blamed on the marshmallow however. Bottom line in my eyes.......if your hooking the fish because of a voluntary "take" on the fishes behalf.........then carry on, if you notice that you are bringin in a large percentage of your fish with the hook on teh outside of the mouth, then change up your presentation........marshmallow or not. If you continue knowingly lining fish, then your not in the game for the right reasons. Might as well grab a net, scoop em up, put your hook in their mouth and let the drag scream. Thats just my opinion, may be right, may be wrong, but its mine lol.

[capt bruce]

Thanks Blaque , you said what i tried to perfectly, lol ,wish I was better with words lol .