icefisherman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Considering the 10% ethanol we get mixed in the gas from most gas stations and the tendency of the ethanol to attract lots of water during the winter storage from the air and then sinking down to the bottom of the fuel tank I guess it is maybe a good idea to add a water separator/fuel filter for both my motors (2000 Suzuki 115HP 2 stroke EFI and 2000 Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9HP). Don’t want to have motor problems in the spring from starting the motor with mixture of ethanol and water instead of ethanol and gasoline. Spoke to few Suzuki dealers today and all of them suggested adding one. Actually they told me they insist their customers install one. But my neighbor, who I trust and who used to be Johnson mechanic for many years and now repairs outboard motors out of his home as a hobby, has told me not to do it as (in his opinion) those water separators/fuel filters could starve the motor for gas and on two stroke motors it could damage the motor.... So, I guess damn if you do....damn if you don't situation...has some of you used water separator/fuel filter with similar size/type motor(s) and if so have you had any issues with it? Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Just save yourself the worry and pour it into your car's gas tank. The little but of oil in it won't hurt and if you have 1/2 a tank already in the car the oil content will become diluted. I've done it for years, as well as many others. When next season arrives get some fresh gas, no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 But is it true if you put in the premium fuel,like the 92 octane or the sunoce 94 octane,is there ethanol in that gas as well i think someone said that their wasnt?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Shawn all you can do is go to the station with a clear container with water in it and mark the waters level. Add fuel and if it appears that the water level rises...there is ethanol/alchohol in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvette1 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 i did not have a filter and blew up my evenjunk i now have a filter in my pro-v i get water all the time the filter saves me every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Emil...buy a Verado.. it has a built in water seperator! I'd probably be smart to add a water seperator to my kicker line though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishindevil Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Thanks wayne,it sure sounds like everyone is unsure what to do,my outboard is an o6,and in the manual it tells me to run the plus fuel,in it but if its not available the 87 octane will do ?????...what are the manufacturers saying about this fuel dilema????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Shawn, from hours of research on this issue over the past week or so I have discovered Sunoco HAS ethanol in ALL grades of gas. Our only (slim) chance of getting fuel with less or no ethanol is going to Esso and Shell. I hate Esso but will go and check what they sell. Hope Shell hasn't added the Ethanol yet ot atleast not in great amounts. Wayne, two questions: 1) I was planning to connect the filter on the main fuel line...then from after the filter the line splits with a T-conenctor and one side goes to the main motor the other side to the kicker. This way both motors use fuel from the same fuel line AFTER fuel has gone through the filter therefore it is with no water in it. From what you've written seems you are having "separate" fuel lines cioming from the fuel tank and going to each of your motors? 2) I am not sure I understood this one go to the station with a clear container with water in it and mark the waters level. Add fuel and if it appears that the water level rises...there is ethanol/alchohol in it. I'd think when you add any fluid to youe container full of water sure the water level will go up, so not sure what the clear container experiement witll prove!?! And yes next time when I buy brand new Lund I'll have your Verado advice in mind But then is I could I'd always buy 4 stroke Yamaha for a big motor, as I am trully impressed by those machines Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 I think your neighbor is talking about old motors most motors now are oil injected or have an inline oil mixer or it's on the motor not many have pre mix in tank so if you have the water separator at the tank, you will still get lots of oil to the motor if the water separators/fuel filters could starve the motor of gas, so no damage to the motor....... if it was me get the water separator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Emil...water is heavier than fuel and will stay seperated. You will see the clear water and yellowy fuel above it. If you put water in your container (Narrower the better... like a gerkins pickle jar if you don't have a proper fuel tester like I do)..... to say the 1/3rd height of the container....mark it's exact level and then add fuel that has ethanol or alcohol in it to fill the container.... the water level will appear to rise above the mark you made. This shows that there is alcohol/ethanol in the fuel. If there is none... the water level mark will be unchanged. My Lund was pre-packaged for a kicker. At the fuel selector for main/off/reserve there is a hose barb connection for each the kicker and main motor...so I can put a filter on just the kicker outlet...since my main motor already has a high tech water seperator and detector sensor to tell me it's time to drain the water reservoir. Shawn... surprised that your Merc is calling for Premium fuel. Even mine can run on Regular unless I'm running the piss out of it for extended periods of time and then I'm supposed to run premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranks bait Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 So I've been watching this thread and am sort of confused. Not hard most days, but I'm drugged up from a flu so I'm even less SMRT. I have a 1983 2 stoke that I premix oil in the tank, do I need a separator? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmtcanada Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 So I've been watching this thread and am sort of confused. Not hard most days, but I'm drugged up from a flu so I'm even less SMRT. I have a 1983 2 stoke that I premix oil in the tank, do I need a separator?Thanks I'm in the same boat as cranks (not literally)....well, I'm not all drugged up, but I also have an older 1983 two stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) According to a Merc bulletin there are many things to watch for with alcohol in fuels. I dug up a bulletin from Oct 06 and it states do not use fuels containing more than 10% alcohol or damage to fuel systems may occur. Unlike automotive systems boat fuel systems are vented to atmosphere. Alcohol absorbs water like a sponge. So long periods of exposure to atmospheric conditions will eventually lead to phase separation. The alcohol and water separated out forms an acid that can corrode fuel system parts. This can create a lean/fuel air ratio and damage engines. After 1996 mercs were built to withstand 10% alcohol but no more than that. Another thing to watch out for is fuel tanks made from fiberglass. Alcohol can deteriorate fuel tanks made before 1991 and carry the dissolved debris into the fuel system. Additionally Merc does not want additional filters or separators added to their systems that may cause further restrictions of fuel supply which may cause lean mixtures. Other manufacturers are recommending additional water separators be added. I'm finding this very interesting research and I will add to this as I find out more info. Edited January 22, 2008 by Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Well, I've just called and spoke to The Shell Headquarters in Calgary. They told me (very kindly) their stations in ON, SK, MB are required to have up to 10% ethanol "average" BUT....speaking of Ontario they confirmed that in the GTA area ALL their stations selling 87 octane gas will have up to 10% ethanol in it. The 89 grade will have up to 5% and the 91 grade will NOT have any ethanol. Now......OUTSIDE of the GTA most (if not all) of their stations will not have ethanol in any of the grades of gas (for now but this will slowly change in time). They also told me if I have particular area/town and call them they can tell me if their stations in that area sell gas with ethanol or not. They also told me they get this question asked DAILY, so seems like we are not the only ones interested in it. Then I called Esso as their web site states: Ethanol-blended gasoline Ethanol-blended gasoline is currently available at participating Esso service stations in Saskatchewan and Ontario. Stations selling ethanol-blended gasoline have a label on the pump indicating the gasoline may contain up to 10% ethanol. I knew there is a reason why I hate Esso...didn't get much help from them....the lady said "noone can tell me what stations have ethanol and what don't"....or well....what can I say.... Seems like there is decent chance with Shell to find 87 gas with no ethanol so I'll be checking ahead of time what Shell stations on my way to the fishing spot sell 87 gas without ethanol. Thought this may give you more into. Cheers, Ice Fisherman Edited January 22, 2008 by icefisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 tone z71 Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 any engine run off a boat with a built in tank should be seperated,Wayne the Etecs come with the on board seperators as well NA NA NA NA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Mercury does NOT want additional filters or separators added to their systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) any engine run off a boat with a built in tank should be seperated,Wayne the Etecs come with the on board seperators as well NA NA NA NA Yah... but you can't hear yours seperating the water/fuel over your engine ! LOL Bernie.. probably for good reason and I'm giving the idea second thoughts. Asking a LOT of that 9.9 kickers fuel pump to suck fuel up out of the hull tank..thru all the connections and then a restricting filter to boot. Edited January 22, 2008 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Yes Wayne. I agree. 2 strokes can be damaged easily by lean fuel mixtures. We see it especially in snowmobiles. I believe the reason being is snowmobiles are stored through summer conditions where heat and high humidity evaporate the fuel more readily than the water. Deposits then form on the main jets causing lean fuel air ratios consequently causing burned pistons. I think the problem is more evident on larger engines where larger amounts of fuel requirements can be restricted by additional filters and separators. What is confusing me is the fact that some other manufacturers are recommending them. Thats what I'm trying to figure out now. There may be some differences with the 4 VS. 2 stroke as well. Still looking, will let you all know what, if anything, something new comes up. Edited January 23, 2008 by Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icefisherman Posted January 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 To add to it - I spoke to number of Suzuki dealers last two days....Canadian and US ones. They ALL said they "strongly encourage ALL their customers to install fuel filter/water separator" Two of them (in the US) went so far to say - they refuse servicing Suzuki outboards that don't install such filter. I guess that stands on its own! I've tried to confirm this with Suzuki directly but let’s just say their customer service can use some improvement, so I wasn't able to talk to the right person. But I did talk to Racor - the manufacturer of the best fuel filters/water separators out there...and they are the ones making the filter for Suzuki...they did say the filter I was considering WILL SUPPLY ENOUGH fuel for both motors. Suzuki lists that filter under Suzuki part number and they recommend using it on motors with up to 140HP. There is larger filter for the larger motors. My 115 Suzuki is rated for 18 GPH and I am sure my Yamaha 9.9 4 stroke kicker is much less than that, so the filter they recommended is rated at 30 GPH and they say it should be plenty to supply enough fuel to both engines and will NOT starve them. Cheers, Ice Fisherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didoban Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 go for a water/fuel separator. Its' a good cheap investment...especially for those boaters that do not use a lot of fuel during the season or those that keep less than full tank will collect condensation. I have a vmax with a see- thru separator and at different times during the season I get water in the separator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 My marine mechanic told me to stay away from the filters. Same thing, starving the engine. I just make sure my gas doesn't sit around very long. How long does it take to separate? That's the question we need answered......and I'm sure there are prolly a million variables to the answer. I haven't had a prob, and I'm burning gas with 10% ethanol.....or so they say.......I just add 2 oz. of stabil to each tank and give er' ..........I mix it in the tank myself.....50:1 mix. A tank doesn't last me more than a week.....after that, I take it out and burn it in the lawn mower Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowPoke Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 My Mariner should be fine. The foam doesn't have a chance to settle before I use it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlocked Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 So does this apply to 260hp I/O engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 My Mariner should be fine. The foam doesn't have a chance to settle before I use it all. Mine is a Mariner as well. Mechanic told me not to worry about it.....just drive er' like always Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted January 23, 2008 Report Share Posted January 23, 2008 So does this apply to 260hp I/O engines? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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