jnic Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 have you ever thought of going in with a few buddies and buy a fishing loge or resort?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Not if you ever want to fish again.... ..and the quickest way to end friendships is to go into business together. Edited January 1, 2008 by irishfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbac31 Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Not if you ever want to fish again.... ..and the quickest way to end friendships is to go into business together. I second that. Unless you have a full staff to run it for you . It will be a new full time job with little time off. Its like owning a resturant, you work more hours than your employes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapshooter Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 My boss, the owner of the lodge I guide for, is also one of the guides. He's having his cake and eating it too. The most important thing to consider re lodge ownership is the fishery. If the fishery isn't strong enough nobody will come back. it's all about the fishery, everything else can be built/bought/made or otherwise controlled by the owners. Also, in order for a trophy fishery to be sustained, you need a large body of water. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) Absolutely... I did it too. Cost me a ton of money, never got to fish, and now have not spoken to some family members for over 4 years. Here's a few things to watch out for: -Beware of the real estate agent representing the seller and the buyer -Too little capital for repairs and upkeep -Lawyers don't give a crap about your best interests -No matter how well the previous owners are doing, if you have to finance more than 25% of the purchase price you will have a very difficult time to make ends meet. (remember that a lot of lodges for sale have been in the family for years and are paid so the owners probably have low overhead) -Make sure you thoroughly investigate septic and a water treatment capabilities and legal requirements. If you don't you can be sure the Ministry of Environment will. An ecological assessment will cost about $5000, and all banks will require one before giving you a mortgage. -Insurance costs a bundle... A BUNDLE, be prepared! -If the place you are looking at has cottages and boats, keep in mind most people only rent for 2-3 days (weekends) now, preferring to split their one or two weeks at Wonderland, and day trips etc. -Remember for families, a week at a cottage with boat rental, gas and food can cost $1200+, not much different than a couple days in Disneyworld -Don't let the real estate agent recommend insurance brokers, lawyers, references etc. You will be tempted since most lodges are well away from your stomping grounds -Friends and relatives will let you down, and will all want to be in charge... if you can't nip that in the bud up front, don't get involved. Even if you think you have taken care of this aspect beforehand, you more than likely haven't -Spend time at the lodge in the peak season and off season, see firsthand how it performs -Lodges are a lot of work, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week Most important things to keep in mind... DO YOUR HOMEWORK, DO MARKET STUDIES, DEMAND TO SEE REAL ACCOUNTANT CERTIFIED BOOKS! Edited January 1, 2008 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnic Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 thanks alot for the info. we would be hiring somebody to run it. it is a fishing and hunting territory, not really a family getaway. thanks again jnic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2fan Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) A lot of good points have been made about the cons of going into the resort business. Most of them apply to any venture though. A couple of things were missed though. The labour market is all for the employee right now. Unless your group can run and look after your investment yourselves you will ultimately find yourself at the mercy of whomever you hire. Once they the workers figure that out they own you and your investment no matter who has the "title". I have worked in the "service" for 30 yrs and I can't believe what workers can and do get away with these days. My boss for my part-time job complains that the world is run by babysitters. ie if your staff's child can't attend day care for any reason you as the boss get an extra shift that day or for 4 or 5 till that kid is allowed back into daycare..... I see this happening all the time to lots of other owners of small businesses too, and some of them are so fed up they want to sell but once prospective buyers find out the facts they run for the hills. Also remember the more remote the location the more difficult it will be to get great staff. You might think that hiring good guides or a chef is important but believe me, finding even one quality dishwasher or housekeeper will be even tougher. If you don't have those two basics covered first and well it won't matter how good the guides are if the camp looks like crap. It also doesn't matter how great the food is if it is served in a dirty dinning room, on dirty plates. Customers today expect the very best and finding workers who believe that giving just that little bit extra is tougher than ever, so take that into account when you and your other investors are thinking you can just hire someone to run it for you. Will the person you hire to run things have dreams and goals equal yours for just a paycheck? Not likely.... Edited January 1, 2008 by Canuck2fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookinforwalleye Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I know two people who have done that and both end up as financial disasters with one totally destoying the family,kids left,the mother turned to booze and became a drunk.In the end all this couple had to show for their experience was runaway kids,alcholism,divorce, they ended up penniless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnic Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 I know two people who have done that and both end up as financial disasters with one totally destoying the family,kids left,the mother turned to booze and became a drunk.In the end all this couple had to show for their experience was runaway kids,alcholism,divorce, they ended up penniless. sounds like they should of went on doctor phil first. thanks for th info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioFisherman Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 A 24/7 business and the resort-camp can only be as good as the people running it. Fuel prices probably won`t drop significantly. A lot of foreign (USA) tourists have spent themselves into a hole, hard to justify a vacation - travel when you can`t make your mortgage payment. The foreclosure listings in the local papers far out number the job listings, they advertise a week at Disney World here on TV for 1600 bucks and given the choice of a week at DW or a week up north for a comparable price most are heading south. Tourist business is changing, the well to do will always be able to afford it, the average family maybe not. A changing mindset with a lot of options for the travel dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lundboy Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) sounds like they should of went on doctor phil first. thanks for th info. That's a pretty smart ass reply. We are just trying to help you out. I've been there and know how these things turn out and lookingforwalleye is absolutely right, this sort of thing happens in most cases. But if you think you know better by all means jump in with both feet. When you find out how hard it is to hire good help in remote areas, and the fact that most people in those remote areas will only work long enough to obtain EI, then quit on you only to come back and beg for their job back when EI runs out not to mention demanding $15-$40/hr, and rob you (or your guests) blind while working for you because you aren't there 100% of the time micro managing them, you will see what it's all about. But then again looking at the amount of "fly ins" you do, maybe you and your buddies are so rich that this is just a toy investment for you and none of the above matters anyways. So, good luck and caveat emptor. Edited January 1, 2008 by lundboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnic Posted January 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 That's a pretty smart ass reply. We are just trying to help you out. I've been there and know how these things turn out and lookingforwalleye is absolutely right, this sort of thing happens in most cases. But if you think you know better by all means jump in with both feet. When you find out how hard it is to hire good help in remote areas, and the fact that most people in those remote areas will only work long enough to obtain EI, then quit on you only to come back and beg for their job back when EI runs out not to mention demanding $15-$40/hr, and rob you (or your guests) blind while working for you because you aren't there 100% of the time micro managing them, you will see what it's all about. But then again looking at the amount of "fly ins" you do, maybe you and your buddies are so rich that this is just a toy investment for you and none of the above matters anyways. So, good luck and caveat emptor. i was just joking, sorry it offended you. thanks for the input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 thanks alot for the info. we would be hiring somebody to run it. it is a fishing and hunting territory, not really a family getaway. thanks again jnic The advice I always give to anyone wanting to buy a business or a property in/on which they will open a business is to do a business plan first. Be honest with it, get help if you don't know enough answers, do your due diligence, then do some soul searching. Be brutally honest with yourself. Will it really support itself and the people who are going to be dependent on it? Is it a good investment or just something cool that I really really wanna do? Am I thinking with my head or my heart? If it can pass those tests, then see if it will pass a commercial lender's scrutiny, even if you don't need to borrow the money. It'll be a clue as to whether or not it's a decent investment. If a lender will only finance a very small percent that's needed ask why they won't put in more and consider their reasons. They have stats on attrition rates and probabilities of success/failure. They may even look at what you bring to the table other than just money and enthusiasm. It's surprising how many people get cold feet after going through this exercise. Oftentimes the failures are the folks who didn't do this kind of diligence beforehand. Good luck with it. Will you be offering OFC discounts? JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 1, 2008 Report Share Posted January 1, 2008 Possibly you could approach a lodge and work for them for a week or two and see first hand how the daily trial and tribs go. I guided hunters and unless your a big time people person this is a challenge with some of the personalities from the guests. I found it's very much like babysitting most times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zib Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Not if you ever want to fish again.... ..and the quickest way to end friendships is to go into business together. You got that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Living on the lake all my life and dealing with many lodge operators over that time I have seen many come and go. The ones that make it are totally dedicated to the job and were usually well off financially to begin with. Hard work and lots of hours are required. I have never seen one make it where the owner is absent. Take the advise of many here that know too. It can be done and I suppose it can be rewarding but don't count on doing a lot of fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuro Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Then there is the sinking US dollar which most pundits see falling even further over time. What percentage of your business is American tourists? I haven't overnighted in the states for many years...since the loonie sunk, it just didn't seem economical. What if American's get that mindset with the loonie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solopaddler Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Lots of negative comments it seems, probably with good reason. However no one ever made something happen sitting on the couch and dreaming about it. I say go for it! Most seem to have ignored the fact that you said it was a fishing and hunting "territory" and that you'd be hiring someone to run it. When you say "territory" can I assume it's located in Quebec? If so then there's even more reasons to pursue this for a variety of reasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pikehunter Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Remember for families, a week at a cottage with boat rental, gas and food can cost $1200+, not much different than a couple days in Disneyworld That is so true! And this is the reason we have had so many trips to Florida. We usually looked at the cost of going North and staying at a camp, the black flies, mosquitoes, musty cabins, weather that is unpredictable, lack of some luxuries such as air conditioning TV channels taking our own bedding and other small things like that and figured for that kind of money we might as well go south. Or we would just pitch the tent at a camping resort with the indoor pool, hot tub and nearby beach. Even when the exchange rate was at 40% Fla. was still a viable vacation option. I feel sorry for the Ontario lodge operators having to make it work with such short seasons but then I figured well let them take the American tourists for every penny they can and we'll go elsewhere. No offense intended to my US friends and family but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I personally am not offened PH I am glad to hear that you come to see the USA it is a country that is different from the place that you live. That can also be said to be the reason that we come up north to Canada to see a place that is beautiful in its own way. I have found however that the prices that the lodges charge are not on a sliding scale were the Americans pay more or less as long as the exchange rate is followed or you pay in Canadian money. I will keep coming up North to see my friends and fish for the species that are not found were I live. To buy a lodge is a very attractive dream that most everyone has entertained at one time or another. It is hard to judge what the outcome of purchasing one is going to be. Some times just the simple act of changing hands and just one person no longer being their is enough to change peoples mind as to whether or not they will have a return visit. Since the reason the lodge is being sold varies and the negatives of the lodge are always hidden as best they can it is important to talk to the local merchants and people on the lake as how they feel or react to having the lodge and how it is run. The answers you get should be taken as an average not as an example of what each person says because at some point we all can make some one mad at us and grudges to some people are a way of life. Thinking about and weighing in with what happens if this fails were will I be is pretty important so give that a test run on your model before you decide. Good luck RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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