Question regarding regulations UPDATED

[fatherof3]

I took Ethan down for a walk to the dam tonight and ran into a complete idiot.He was fishing right at the dam,while it is a santuary,keeping as many fish as he wanted.When I told him(nicely) he could not fish there right now he started screaming at me,calling me every name he could think of(in front of my 6 year old son).then he told me the rules don't apply to him,to get my facts straight and that he will keep as many fish as he wants.He acted like this and said it was his right because he has a status card and can do whatever he wants(his own words).He waved it in my face and dared me to call the MNR.My question is do none of the rules pertain to natives?Before this thread goes a certain direction I am not saying all natives are like this just this idiot.I am going to look at the rules online as not quite sure how this works but to be this big of an idiot in front of my kid and flaunt/taunt is just uncalled for.They already had a milk crate full of bass and were still fishing.If you are wondering how I handled this I told him to smile as I took a pic of the three of them and pics of their truck and plate in the case this is wrong.any insight as to the rules and if this is right or wrong.Will post what I can find.

Edited October 16, 2007 by fatherof3

[Milty]

I took Ethan down for a walk to the dam tonight and ran into a complete idiot.He was fishing right at the dam,while it is a santuary,keeping as many fish as he wanted.When I told him(nicely) he could not fish there right now he started screaming at me,calling me every name he could think of(in front of my 6 year old son).then he told me the rules don't apply to him,to get my facts straight and that he will keep as many fish as he wants.He acted like this and said it was his right because he has a status card and can do whatever he wants(his own words).He waved it in my face and dared me to call the MNR.My question is do none of the rules pertain to natives?Before this thread goes a certain direction I am not saying all natives are like this just this idiot.I am going to look at the rules online as not quite sure how this works but to be this big of an idiot in front of my kid and flaunt/taunt is just uncalled for.They already had a milk crate full of bass and were still fishing.If you are wondering how I handled this I told him to smile as I took a pic of the three of them and pics of their truck and plate in the case this is wrong.any insight as to the rules and if this is right or wrong.Will post what I can find.

 

 

The fact that they will eat those fish is punishment enough...lol.....

 

How bout the netting boats for salmon and steelhead...?

 

Its the way it is in ontario....try quebec sometime in the mid-north zec's for specs and lakers,....Its worth the $100 in permits and licensces and the travel just to experience how they manage their fisheries....when there is a problem suspected with the health of the fishery by a CO that patrols his area,...its SHUT DOWN...TO EVERYONE ...until the problem is resolved!!! As for poachng incidents...they are makedly reduced over Ontario!!!

 

We are however talkin native fish in lakers and specs,...salmon and steelies are introduced,...somewhat self-sustaining species in the great lakes...Its not a big priority on a CO's list in ON,...with huntin and all...Its unfortunate,...I would personally trade in all salmon for a better managed steelhead fishery in the great lakes,...hands down!!!

[Gerritt]

Knowing your luck and the state of affairs when it comes to Natives and the Grand River in general... your lucky the OPP did not arrest YOU!... I kid you not... It is not right but that is where we are all along the grand River Corridor.. the Six Nations are claiming ownership of 10 Km's on either side along the Grand... they are requiring approval from the band to basically fart.. this thing has not even begun..Douglas Creek Estates were/are just the beginning...

 

Sadly... He was within his right.. as our laws do not apply to him.. <--- Need to add... As our current government sees it..

 

Was he right to berate you in front of your child?...... absolutely not....

 

Is this the end of the confrontations along the Grand... no... things are just getting started...

 

Sad but True...

 

Gerritt.

Edited October 15, 2007 by Gerritt

[brifishrgy]

.any insight as to the rules and if this is right or wrong.

 

 

if they are on THEIR reserve there is nothing you can do .. if they are NOT on their reserve they have to follow all MNR rules including a licence

[fatherof3]

I hear ya Gerritt which is why I was very careful in what I said in return.Looking through the regs online so far the only things I have seen are that they do not require a card if on treaty land but do and must follow regs otherwise.Also,no fishing of any kind allowed in a santuary.Not very clear but will keep looking.

[motv8tr]

The way he acted in front of your son was uncalled for, as for what he was doing, why not just send the pics you took, along with the story of what happened, and let them decide?

 

Maureen

[packrat]

fatherof3----this goes on at Wilkes dam as well. Was there one time when the "man" was called----when he arrived while he agreed in principle "there was nothing he could do".

 

Definietly NOT on their reserve.

 

 

Sorry to hear that "sanctuary" not working---personally dont go near the place after the end of Sept.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

As native populations grow so will their need for food AND LAND. Then what? Will they be allowed to clean out our fisheries?Will they be allowed to take our homes?They say this is their land? How do we know they didn't conquer it from someone else? We have as much right on this land as they do and vice versa.

 

They should be able to make their own laws on their reserves, as long as it doesn't affect the rest of the country. Hopefully they have responsible leadership that protects and manages the resources properly. Which I believe many do. Though there are always bad apples.

[fatherof3]

Just got off the phone with the MNR and it was in fact illegal.A CO is on the way.For future reference no one is allowed to fish within a santuary.They said that with the pics I took of their plate and them fishing that they can proceed.

[Gerritt]

Just got off the phone with the MNR and it was in fact illegal.A CO is on the way.For future reference no one is allowed to fish within a santuary.They said that with the pics I took of their plate and them fishing that they can proceed.

 

 

Good work man!!! now follow up with the MNR and let us know the end result!!

 

Kudos to you for protecting our resources!

 

PS.. keep an eye out for buddy at the river... dont need to hear about any fisticuffs..

 

 

Gerritt.

[LeXXington]

Rudeness comes in all types.

 

I have always had a respect for our native people's but like you said there are a few, a very small bunch that feel its there heritage right to do what they want to the land even outside of there territory.

 

Our goverment will not stand up, Political correctness gone wrong. Send it too the MNR but don't expect anything,

 

Still the rudeness somepeople are just jerks.

[fatherof3]

thanks Gerritt,just trying to do the right thing

[Jay T]

WTG Fatherof3 . You handled this in the right manor and did not come to their level of rudeness.

 

Hopefully they will get what they deserve.

 

Jay

[Bly]

Well done

 

Even though you were not positive of the regulations, you took the pictures and did some research, made the call. There are many in this world that claim nothing will be done etc., but YOU did something. I am often puzzled by the attitude that because the law is not going to do anything, we should just ignore it. From personal experience, even though the "law" may not always be able to "bring them to justice", the victims are thankful. We are all vicitms when it comes to these sorts of crimes......so THANK YOU!!

[Terry]

good for you......

but if he is band number carrying native

I bet it will never make it to court

 

a bunch came down from Parry Sound to spear walleye in the talbot river during spawn and in a fish sanctuary

no cop would even try to charge them..the cop said whats the point it will not make it to court....

 

a women got charged with ride a horse along the band of the river the same week, MNR said it was harassing the spawning fish, but natives can come down form up north and spear.... I am pretty sure, that way back when the treaty was signed they didn't zip down 100 miles for a night of spearing fish.......but if it's legal lets smile and go about our rule enforced lives

[tonyb]

The fact is, if he is not in his TREATY AREA he was fishing illegally.

 

The problem lies in the vague definitions of treaty areas for each native band.

 

I am a status indian and have played the game with the MNR one time to see what would happen...I was stopped at an access point on Lake Simcoe and was asked for my fishing license (which I always have anyway) and instead I handed him my status card. He said, 'oh that's great but I know where your treaty area is and you aren't within that range, hope you have a fishing license'

At which point I handed it over and all was well.

I asked him how to find out where I could find a map of the treaty areas and he didn't seem to know of a public resource, but he was familiar with the particular band I am a member of and knew it's territory was Manitoulin Island.

 

This is the best online resource I could find, if anyone is interested.

http://www.aboriginalcanada.gc.ca/acp/site...en/ao20200.html

 

As always, best to let the authorities deal with people that claim they have a right to be fishing somewhere that doesn't appear to be legal.

 

Tony

[Terry]

that's a great link tonyb

thanks

[fatherof3]

good link Tonyb. Thank you for the support and comments.I tried to handle this the right way and can't wait to see if or what happens now.

[Jigger]

You ceratainly handled that incident with a cool head. Hope tose guys get what they deserve. Good on you for doing the right thing.

[Tarzan's Jane]

Good for you. For sure the guy could have been a lot more pleasant, but then again who knows how many have approached him on that...but hey...if he's in the wrong hopefully he'll know about it. For some fishing is not a sport and likely wont ever be.

[fatherof3]

Just got off the phone with the MNR guy.He was really nice and asked for all the details.Then had me email my pics to him and told me they would be checking the area out more.He also told me that when he punched up the plate number a lot of interesting info came up but he could not tell me any more.Anyway,will keep the updates coming.

[bassjnkie]

if they are on THEIR reserve there is nothing you can do .. if they are NOT on their reserve they have to follow all MNR rules including a licence

 

The Natives have no regs anywhere, the can shoot/fish anything and anytime. Friend is MNR officer.

[danc]

The Natives have no regs anywhere, the can shoot/fish anything and anytime. Friend is MNR officer.

 

Actually, no they can't. You'd better consult your friend again.

[fatherof3]

Do Aboriginal people need an Outdoors Card?

Members of Ontario Aboriginal communities, having established

aboriginal and treaty rights, do not require an Outdoors

Card or Ontario fishing licence tag to take fish for personal use

within their traditional or treaty territory. Personal use is

defined as for food, social or ceremonial purposes.

Individuals should be prepared to provide identification when

showing their community membership. Members of Aboriginal

communities fishing outside of their traditional or treaty areas

must have a valid Ontario Outdoors Card and fishing licence tag.

 

 

This quote is taken right from the ministry guide.The sticky point is the treaty territory.Danc is correct.

[irishfield]

I had no doubt Dan knew what he was talking about.... unfortunately we're missing a great poster on OFC because a few threads seems to go "here" every year around this time !