NF NF NF new furnace and A/C

[ketchenany]

I'm looking at replacing both as the furnace is not well  may make it through this winter.

Also may have to move some HAVAC so I can finish my basement! 

Looking at cost for the units. Anyone have them replaced recently? 

 

[OhioFisherman]

This sounds like a situation where size matters!

[craigdritchie]

You're kind of asking how long is a piece of string. Short answer, it depends. What' s the size and layout of the house? One story or two? Finished basement?  How many bedrooms? How many windows? How big are the windows? Got a fireplace?

What size and type of furnace/AC you pick also makes a big difference in both price and performance. High efficiency vs medium efficiency, basic model or more bells and whistles ... you get the idea.

For a typical house in the GTA, figure anywhere from $9k - $12k for both furnace and AC as a rough starting point, with a reasonable amount of work to accommodate the ducting and gas line included. It could cost you more, or it could cost you less. Because .... --> it depends. But that's probably a fair starting point.

Tip of the week --> the purchase price matters, but so does the long-term operating cost. Ask about maintenance requirements (they vary) and what your fuel savings would be between a high efficiency vs mid-efficiency. It might be worth spending more on a better furnace/AC if it will cost you less to operate. Of course that depends how long you plan to stay in the house too.It might take you 10 years to get your money back.

Also --> ask about service plans. Depending what they offer, it could save you a few bucks in the long term.

Good luck.

[Jmeyer]

I would suggest finding a Goodman dealer, considerably less then Lennox and been working fine for me. They are not offshore crap either built in Texas I believe. My duct work and gas line were in place when I replaced mine, the 2 ton a/c cost $3800 and the 110000 btu medium efficiency cost 3700 installed. Both within the last 3 years

[leaf4]

I would consider looking at an air to water heat pump instead of a furnace, they are much more efficient than a typical gas furnace, using a water coil instead of a heat exchanger.

You also don't run the risk of having any products of combustion in the house like holes in the heat exchanger.

I have one in my house and love it, it's original to my house, installed  in 1994 and now a defunct company called Aquatherm.

There is a company that has been around for a while you should look into called Ecologix. Built in Cambridge.

 

http://ecologix.ca/products/cold-climate-heat-pumps/air-to-water-heat-pump/

[Rizzo]

we just replaced both last summer. My house is approx 2400 sq feet plus finished bsmt...so we needed decent size unit (sorry I forget the exact specifications). We looked at Goodman and Carrier. We decided to go with the Carrier because it wasn't too much more AND the Carrier dealer promised to assist us getting all the rebates we were entitled to. The Goodman guy basically said figure out the rebates yourself. We paid 9 k taxes in for a "mid range" carrier AC and furnace package. We later got 2500 back in government rebates. And we actually got them! Like I said the Carrier dealer helped us in that process. If I remember correctly a mid level goodman would have been 7500 taxes in figure out own rebate and the Carrier was 9000 but after the rebates only 6500! After doing some research it basically looked like Goodman would let anyone with a van represent them (fly by night operation?), whereas Carrier seemed more "long term"

[Rizzo]

the reason I mention "long term" vs fly by night...both places were including 10 year warranty parts and labour...well if buddy with his van is gone in 3 years, who is gonna honour your warranty? The Carrier dealer near us is a much bigger operation than the Goodman guy, who was super nice but confessed he is pretty much a one man show. That made me a bit nervous.

[Canuck]

Goodman is pretty low end.  Mark up on HVAC equipment is insanely high so you may be able to negotiate down on a better brand.  

[Old Ironmaker]

Yep, how long is a rope? 90,000 BTU or 70,000 BTU,  1.5 ton AC or more. I installed a new furnace 2 years ago and A/C this past summer. I didn't go with the name brands and saved big, the warranties were about the same, both lower end Lennox's. Our place is small though, a bit over 1100 ftsq. Yes size matters as well as a heat loss calculation. There are free heat loss calculators on line. If you know how to calculate square and cubic feet, know what if any insulation you have and R value of the windows and doors you can do that yourself. I used to charge a local HVAC guy 200 bucks to do that for an average size dwelling when he was busy and I wasn't. Took me an hour or so to do, maybe. And get more than 2 quotes, For the exact A/C one guy who was just starting, 5 yrs, was $1000.00 more and a big dealer out here was the best price and I was surprised no one could touch that price. 

As for size matters Rizzo paid about double of what we paid, sounds right, twice as big because size matters. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[Old Ironmaker]

On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 5:17 PM, leaf4 said:

I would consider looking at an air to water heat pump instead of a furnace, they are much more efficient than a typical gas furnace, using a water coil instead of a heat exchanger.

You also don't run the risk of having any products of combustion in the house like holes in the heat exchanger.

I have one in my house and love it, it's original to my house, installed  in 1994 and now a defunct company called Aquatherm.

There is a company that has been around for a while you should look into called Ecologix. Built in Cambridge.

 

http://ecologix.ca/products/cold-climate-heat-pumps/air-to-water-heat-pump/

I don't know anyone that has a home larger than 3000 ftsq that is happy with their heat pump. Maybe lesser size but not from what close friends with McMansions have told me. But these are very big homes. Like a 1400 ftsq family room, come on man!

Edited February 4, 2019 by Old Ironmaker

[ketchenany]

8 hours ago, Old Ironmaker said:

Yep, how long is a rope? 90,000 BTU or 70,000 BTU,  1.5 ton AC or more. I installed a new furnace 2 years ago and A/C this past summer. I didn't go with the name brands and saved big, the warranties were about the same, both lower end Lennox's. Our place is small though, a bit over 1100 ftsq. Yes size matters as well as a heat loss calculation. There are free heat loss calculators on line. If you know how to calculate square and cubic feet, know what if any insulation you have and R value of the windows and doors you can do that yourself. I used to charge a local HVAC guy 200 bucks to do that for an average size dwelling when he was busy and I wasn't. Took me an hour or so to do, maybe. And get more than 2 quotes, For the exact A/C one guy who was just starting, 5 yrs, was $1000.00 more and a big dealer out here was the best price and I was surprised no one could touch that price. 

As for size matters Rizzo paid about double of what we paid, sounds right, twice as big because size matters. 

House is week insulated 2500 sq ft. Coldest it got was 16. Fired it up Saturday and worked like a charm, but getting replaced this morning.

The Italian price is right! 

[leaf4]

On 2/3/2019 at 11:36 PM, Old Ironmaker said:

I don't know anyone that has a home larger than 3000 ftsq that is happy with their heat pump. Maybe lesser size but not from what close friends with McMansions have told me. But these are very big homes. Like a 1400 ftsq family room, come on man!

That sounds like an issue with the design, a heat exchanger gets hotter than a hot water coil will if tied into your hot water tank (as mine is) 

 

Anything above 2500 sq ft I would consider either a larger coil, or more reheat coils at branch runs, but that's more of a commercial setup than a residential setup. 

 

[Tom S]

2 hours ago, leaf4 said:

That sounds like an issue with the design, a heat exchanger gets hotter than a hot water coil will if tied into your hot water tank (as mine is) 

 

Anything above 2500 sq ft I would consider either a larger coil, or more reheat coils at branch runs, but that's more of a commercial setup than a residential setup. 

 

Or do it right and install in-floor hydronic heating system, using the furnace blower for circulation and a hot water coil for supplemental heating. But then again, we're talking about McMansions, the name of the game is big, 'impressive', and cheap.