Ontario to Increase Ethanol Content in Gasoline

[Old Ironmaker]

1 hour ago, Geoff W said:

Our father's father's and all those before them.  We didn't have the info we had even in the 70's as we do now so those working to the 'new world era' have to work with what we had and now have.  I hate the idea too as it means my boat that has been rather bullet proof for the last 10+ years may cost that much more to run and more down time to fix and new issues.  *ARGH*

I hear you Geoff, we have to do our part. What irks me is with this Global economy we have to compete with it just isn't a level playing ground. I have visited Steel Mills all over the world. What costs us in the millions to put in place and run environmental controls to reduce air and water emissions as well as maintain the health and safety of the workers and the local community there are countries like China, India and Iran that doesn't have them nor are legislated to have them. I once asked a Chinese representative attending an AISI (American Institute of Steel and Iron) meeting in Hamilton how many Blast Furnaces are running in China? He said he didn't know because some backwater areas have furnaces to produce Pig Iron for their own local community and ship excess to market using technology from the early 1900's. The main producers as well do not have many emission controls in place. They have been talking about a Global excise tax for these producers including Brazil to make it fair, I forgot Brazil,  that's been part of the G- whatever talks for years, it's all lip service. They don't produce Coke in Brazil, metallurgical Coke, the black stuff not white. They burn charcoal. They get the wood from the rain forests. Imagine how many thousands of acres of rainforest is felled to make Iron every year. The last numbers I saw Brazil out produced Steel in Canada by 80 to1. There is a global environmental impact from loosing these forests as well. Many of these countries operating and labour costs are often far less than 50% of ours yet they sell in the same Global market as us. It isn't the high labour and benefit costs of Unionized workers many North American managers blame for market loses it is simply that we can't compete with them at their operating costs. I had better stop now.

A quick look showed that China now produces 50% of world Steel production at 808 million tons of finished Steel in 2016. Canada sits in 19 place with 12.6 million tons/2016. Just ahead of Viet Nam and well behind Korea and a few 3rd world countries such as  Iran and Brazil. Why make it if you can't profit from it?

Edited December 7, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[Acountdeleted]

20 hours ago, JohnBacon said:

I do recall reading that using ethonal in gas actually leads to a net increase in carbon emissions.  They may be screwing us over for nothing.

I did a quick search and found a few links.  I am sure that other studies will show the opposite.  But at least according to some; this isn't even going to help.

https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/55/7/593/306765

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ethanol-not-cut-emissions/

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/293291-study-ethanol-increases-carbon-emissions

 

 

 

Fascinating. Some really good reads and well written articles. 

Thanks for sharing.

 

I guess there is no 'Quick Fix' or simple soloution to slow down global warming and reduce the effects of greenhouse gasses. : /

[AKRISONER]

funny the comment about electric cars...up until the ban on coal consumption in ontario and the implementation of "clean coal" in the United States, Electric Cars were dirtier than gasoline. Funny how short sited people can be.

I honestly believe that the electric car is the real deal though as long we can keep the cost of electricity down...which in Ontario is a joke...(thanks for stealing a billion dollars...ok too political sorry Art!)

It is true that the global economy is unfair because countries like china and india do not maintain the same environmental standards as we do in North America, however at the same time the cost of pollution to those local populations when it comes to cancer and respiratory illness is astronomical. At the end of the day we can sit and point our fingers and say China should do a better job...but at the same time I think we need to take pride in doing things the right way...thats why we are canadian and not Chinese. I have pristine lakes to fish within a half hour of the downtown of Toronto, try that in beijing or New Deli.  I would rather have a sense of pride and be known as the highest standard than stoop to a lower level just because its easier that way. 

My old man is a metallurgical engineer and he does projects all over the globe, as a rule anything they design is built 100% to Canadian Environmental standards...thats just how canadians do business. When it comes to really dangerous stuff like pressure leaching using acids etc, third world countries cant hire garbage to build these types of plants anyways so they are forced into doing things the right way. Obviously there are also publicly traded companies with invested stake, so they cant be part of an environmental disaster.

I am definitely interested in this discussion about the required amount of resources and carbon emissions it takes to create ethanol vs simply refining fuel and using it in a gasoline engine. In fact that is an entirely different discussion and really a feat of pure ingenuity. The efficiency of gasoline and diesel engines is mind blowing. We can talk about cars being a POS...but seriously, what other thing is there out there that you can run for 1,000 hours straight in wildly variable conditions and basically not expect a single blip aside from minor maintenance like a couple of oil changes. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by AKRISONER

[Old Ironmaker]

1 hour ago, AKRISONER said:

 

My old man is a metallurgical engineer and he does projects all over the globe,

I may know or have met your Father Akri. And yes, we Canadians do it the right way. And encourage other nations to follow our lead. Our environmental emission standards here in Ontario are some of the most stringent in the world and we should all be very proud of it. But try telling that to a laid off worker in manufacturing and the up to 10 workers that support a single job in manufacturing from transportation to sales.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[BITEME]

How dumb is it really to be using a important food source for fuel

i have never had a problem burning alcohol based fuels ever so I’m not sure what the issue is aside from your using an important food source

[SirCranksalot]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:50 PM, Old Ironmaker said:

 What costs us in the millions to put in place and run environmental controls to reduce air and water emissions as well as maintain the health and safety of the workers and the local community there are countries like China, India and Iran that doesn't have them nor are legislated to have them. I once asked a Chinese representative attending an AISI (American Institute of Steel and Iron) meeting in Hamilton how many Blast Furnaces are running in China? He said he didn't know because some backwater areas have furnaces to produce Pig Iron for their own local community and ship excess to market using technology from the early 1900's. The main producers as well do not have many emission controls in place. 

I'm not sure this is still true about China. From what I have read and heard they seem to be really cleaning up their coal burning plants, for e.g.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

1 hour ago, SirCranksalot said:

I'm not sure this is still true about China. From what I have read and heard they seem to be really cleaning up their coal burning plants, for e.g.

 

Of course they are, the plants their Government wants us to see.

[grimsbylander]

On 2017-12-06 at 3:48 PM, porkpie said:

At this point in time, Canadian tire premium as well as Costco premium are ethanol free at all stations.  Will this change in the future?  I hope not.

I recently got a Costco membership, though I haven't used it yet, and have a question about their gas station. Do you just have to show your membership card or do you have to have made a store purchase too?

[porkpie]

6 minutes ago, grimsbylander said:

I recently got a Costco membership, though I haven't used it yet, and have a question about their gas station. Do you just have to show your membership card or do you have to have made a store purchase too?

Just drive up, swipe your membership card and then swipe your debit card.  No purchase required.  Whenever I head down to shop I usually gas up.  Their prices are always better than city prices, but not a whole lot better than small town pricing. Worth it if your already there though.

[grimsbylander]

21 minutes ago, porkpie said:

Just drive up, swipe your membership card and then swipe your debit card.  No purchase required.  Whenever I head down to shop I usually gas up.  Their prices are always better than city prices, but not a whole lot better than small town pricing. Worth it if your already there though.

Thanks!