CO detector for ice huts/overnighters

[farsider]

We are talking about renting an Ice Hut for an overnighter.

 

Does anyone take a CO detector with them? Which kind? Same one for home (battery backup)?

 

Want to bring one or two just as a precaution.

 

Any recomendations?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark

 

edited to Monoxide

Edited January 14, 2017 by farsider

[Dutch01]

We are talking about renting an Ice Hut for an overnighter.

 

Does anyone take a co2 detector with them? Which kind? Same one for home (battery backup)?

 

Want to bring one or two just as a precaution.

 

Any recomendations?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark

I took one to an ice bungalow. Lucky I did every time we ran the stove it went off.

[Rodbender]

I've been to 2 places on Nippissing both had them in the bungalows test them when you get there and before the operator leaves they will bring fresh batteries to you if they don't work

Edited January 13, 2017 by Rodbender

[Tomcat]

Just my opinion but I believe you would be better off taking a carbon monoxide detector in lieu of a carbon dioxide detector.

 

Excerpted from http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

 

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is responsible for almost 25% of all propane related fatalities. Carbon Monoxide is the product of incomplete gas combustion often because appliances are improperly adjusted. Carbon Monoxide is produced during the incomplete combustion of propane. Incomplete combustion is defined as within the limits of flammability but higher or lower than the ideal ratio of 4 parts propane 96 parts air. Incomplete propane combustion can occur in one of two ways:

• Lean Burn - The ratio of propane to air is less than 4 parts propane. 2.5 parts propane to 97.5 parts air would produce a lean burn. A lean burn can be recognized when flames appear to lift away from the burner and can potentially go out.
• Rich Burn - A ratio of propane to air is more than 4 parts propane. 8.5 parts propane to 91.5 parts air would produce a rich burn. Recognizing a rich burn is very simple as the flames are much larger than they are supposed to be and are largely yellow in color.

Several products of incomplete combustion that are easily visible and if noticed, action should be taken immediately. Visible signs of incomplete combustion include burner flame appearance (as listed above), soot collecting on appliance windows such as that of a space heater and excessive water vapors forming on windows and cool surfaces during appliance operation. Appliance service and adjustment is needed if any of these visible signs of incomplete combustion are noticed.

[Old Ironmaker]

Remember that C0 is heavier than air. It is best to have your unit at or just above ground height. A second unit above the source of combustion is advisable as well. Each unit will alarm at different levels of C0 per parts per million. Our 3 units alarm at 50PPM. At 50PPM there is no need to panic. The Occupational H&S Act for Mines and Mining plants tells us that a worker can work without breathing apparatus for 4 hours with intermittent breaks to fresh air at 50 PPM. When an alarm sounds simply open the door until the alarm subsides. If it doesn't you have a problem, ventilate the area as much as possible and evacuate the space. If it continues do not enter the space and seek the aid of the Fire Dept. A bright blue flame indicates complete combustion, if there is a Orange or yellowish flame indicates the presence of hydrogen and lack of carbon. If the carbon isn't burnt in the process it finds it's way to the waste gas as Carbon Monoxide. I like the source of fuel outside the space in that way it can be shut off without entering the area. If we use a buddy heater the window is open or the door is too.

 

It would be prudent to have a C0 detector in any confined space such as a nice tight ice hut. Even a clam if ventilation isn't good. Any combustion process emits C0 not just NG and propane. Any leak of a combustion gas is not only unsafe because it is combustible but it will displace oxygen in the air.

 

When a person is exposed to enough PPM of C0 certain symptoms may be seen. Headache, nausea, slurred speech, loss of muscle control and mental awareness, eventually unconsciousness up to and including death. These facts I have given are from memory, please ensure that you read your instructions on the unit and do some research yourself from The On. Ministry of Labour website or call.

 

I have read horror stories, had guys get gassed and I have experienced severe C0 poisoning myself, I nearly missed my 28th Bday. The victims were usually those that should have known better.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[Fisherman]

All I can say is a few years ago, that a couple of our group got extremely sick while staying in overnight huts heated by propane. We ruled out the obvious, drank too much, bad food, etc, not everyone ate the same nor got rat faced. I will never go back to that Hut Op. It didn't seem to phaze him too much. And, when I go back to overnight huts, I'll bring my own along.

[dave524]

I bet the OP misspoke himself and actually meant carbon monoxide detector.

[G.mech]

Remember that C0 is heavier than air.

 

Actually CO is very slightly lighter than air however this is a very common misconception:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ACarbon_monoxide_detector

[Old Ironmaker]

G. Mech, it all depends on what the carbon source is and the combustion process, but yes you and I both right. That's why 2 detectors is best in a confined space like a hut. A dirty burn the C0 will always be heavier than air, in a hi efficiency process waste gas is supposed to be clean, thus lighter than air. But a small heater isn't hi efficiency.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[G.mech]

G. Mech, it all depends on what the carbon source is and the combustion process, but yes you and I both right. That's why 2 detectors is best in a confined space like a hut. A dirty burn the C0 will always be heavier than air, in a hi efficiency process waste gas is supposed to be clean, thus lighter than air. But a small heater isn't hi efficiency.

 

I guess I missed that class....I thought CO was CO, one carbon, one oxygen atom.

 

 

 

Carbon monoxide has a molar mass of 28.0, which makes it slightly lighter than air, whose average molar mass is 28.8. According to the ideal gas law, CO is therefore less dense than air.

Edited January 13, 2017 by G.mech

[Old Ironmaker]

OK I hope I don't burn the Shepard's Pie. C0 is C0 yes. But during the combustion process heavier gases may be present in the waste gas along with C0 thus making "the waste gas" that includes the C0 heavier than air. So we have to be aware of that. If that stove is burning black that stuff coming out the chiney stack is heavier than air and it contains X % C0. Such as all manner of Iron Oxides waste gases of the Iron and Steelmaking process. Feo, some Fe0203, Fe0304. Blast Furnace gas has 65% C0 by volume in air. It is a gas other than our standard fuels waste gases we consider C0 to be in. However several countries overseas use these type of gases to heat their homes. We are off the rails here. I saved the Pie.

 

edit: at one time early in the 20th Century the homes around the plants in Hamilton were heated with Blast Furnace and Coke Oven gas. We can learn a lesson from those thinking out of the box over 100 years ago. Energy like steam generated from plants today are used today for heating that I have seen personally in Japan, Russia, Australia and Finland. There are many others. Why don't we? No profit in it?

Edited January 14, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[farsider]

Thanks for everything so far gentlemen.

 

Lots of good info.

 

And yep, Carbon Monoxide is what I should have mentioned.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[CJGuelph]

A battery unit will be fine and is a great idea. My friends and I take one on our annual hunting trip every year! Can't be too careful!

[chris.brock]

 

I would have one for sure if I was over-nighting.

 

I knew a young guy, him and his buddy died sleeping in a hut on the French River.

[Old Ironmaker]

Something to remember, a C0 detector does nothing when there is a gas leak. The best detector other than one specially made for NG and Propane is our noses.

 

That is so sad and so preventable for less than a 100 bucks. We will spend that in a NY minute on tackle but not to prevent a death.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Old Ironmaker

[G.mech]

 

edit: at one time early in the 20th Century the homes around the plants in Hamilton were heated with Blast Furnace and Coke Oven gas. We can learn a lesson from those thinking out of the box over 100 years ago. Energy like steam generated from plants today are used today for heating that I have seen personally in Japan, Russia, Australia and Finland. There are many others. Why don't we? No profit in it?

 

Actually many plants do. They use waste fuel and steam to run co-gen units then put the electricity on the grid. Kathleen pays them over double what she sells it for and then wonders what's wrong.....now that's outside the box thinking!!!

[npt1]

I have always stayed at an 0utfiiter who had a package with day huts for fishing and cottages for eating and sleeping.

Electric heat in the cottage is not a safety issue, no fumes, etc.

Propane heat in the hut has never been a problem because we all know how much they leak air and have drafts.

Spending a weekend in a bungalow has never seemed to be a good idea to me , at least.

Just MHO.

[Old Ironmaker]

Yes G. Mech, co gens are now used here to recycle energy, unlike just 20 years ago when we just burnt it at the bleeders or pumped the steam to atmosphere, better late than never. As far as Political Economics imagine if a private company ran their businesses like our politico's do?