Who is going to pull the trigger?

[DRIFTER_016]

I would agree with you there DRIFTER, and add that I think the real behind the scenes puppet masters are the corporations and lobby groups that donate to the parties.

 

 

Of course they are.

I't's all about the all mighty $$$$$.

[moxie]

Were you equally incensed when Harper padded the G8 bill by a couple hundred million so they could build gazebos and spend other bribe money in conservative won ridings? Did you come up with a cutsie name for them like you did with the Liberals? (I recommend contard). If not, you may be a hypocrite.

 

Harper was around long enough to know him from his track record. For me at least, Trudeau should get more than a cup of coffee in office before we judge.

 

Also, many posters here love to trot out how we need to "stand by our commitments to our friends" when it comes to sending Canadians into a war zone.

 

As a part of the OECD we made promises regarding international aid to our international partners, and Harper reneged on them. How come that's okay? Cause it was "your boy"?

 

I'm not sure why the con love for sending Canadians boys to war, but we have no money to increase the peace in the world? For shame.

 

EDIT: you should know that the 100 "swine" you refer to are the Premier's of the provinces, who happen to come from all parties.

 

The same Premiers had been asking to meet with Harper for years, and he had no time for them. Some of them have since remarked how nice it is to have a PM who listens, and is inclusive and respectful to the Premiers. But I guess that doesn't matter because to you they are just swine.

 

EDIT: before I get slammed for being as anti Harper as you are anti Trudeau, let me state for the record I voted for Harper every election except this one. He had me and he lost me. I'm also very much against the poor job Wynne is doing. I am certainly not a liberal shill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact I was incensed and would be regardless who governs and wish "My boy" would have excused himself from hosting and offered a better more viable and environmentally sustaining option.With the advancements that have been made in technology I would have preferred they have meetings via video conference. Nothing to build, no palms to grease and no security detail needed. A waste of time, money and valuable resources.To hell with being a host to anything. This kid is flying 100 govt trough swines to a United Climate Change Conference and all that is involved with it from limos to linens. Ya, this kids a real thinker alright. Forget the cup of coffee but if he lets his urine settle in a glass he can actually drink it. Now thats self sustaining.

Track record? "My Boy" took the reigns during a global economic correction unlike the prosperous boom years Jeans' liberals lucked into.Even a Lib donkey couldn't screw that up. Money was literally falling from the heavens. I saw it myself.

I'm not 100 % sure but doubt I was ever comfortable to sending troops to a war that was absolutely someone elses responsibility but I would also support them without question.

Again, I guess "My Boy" didn't want to throw money away that almost never trickles down to those that need it. Ya. I'm ok with that.

They are from all parties but here again he could have distinguished himself from any other politician and he chose not to. Would it have been wrong to attend the conference with a handful of note takers and report to the premiers once he returned? Same ol' same ol'.

Stephen didn't want anything to do with Ontario and Quebecs' Premiers but couldn't well invite the rest without allowing the two whiniest to be there. Now in the kids they can all wear sparkle and paint on their faces, blow at pinwheels and live in an inclusive political world where even unicorns and butterflies fart gold dust.

"Just Watch Me" Isn't that what the kid said? I'm watchin' and the train I see leavin' the station looks just like the trains before it.

One last thing. Lieberal voters are still Chuckleheads.

Edited November 27, 2015 by moxie

[SirCranksalot]

Dutch----what do you say if we let this Harper vs Trudeau thing go. As far as I can see the only thing left of Harper now is the bad smell.

[Dutch01]

Dutch----what do you say if we let this Harper vs Trudeau thing go. As far as I can see the only thing left of Harper now is the bad smell.

I really, really want to dissect the streaming pile of horse manure that is the post above yours, but out of respect for the board and because you asked I will let it go.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Dutch01

[moxie]

I really, really want to dissect the streaming pile of horse manure that is the post above yours, but out of respect for the board and because you asked I will let it go.

 

Wow!!Thats very inclusive and compassionate of you Dutch. You are more a Lib than you try so hard not to admit. Dung knows Dung. "Enjoy your Boy"

[John Bacon]

I will say I have never voted Red or Blue so I can sit back and bust on both parties!!!

 

Having said that, say what you will about Trudeau or Harper, the fact is it's not one person deciding the fate of the nation.

They are just figure heads for the party they belong to. Just a face/persona to represent the party.

The bulk of the decisions are made by a group of senior party members with backing of the general party members.

The figure head just regurgitates what his/her puppet masters tell him/her to.

 

That may be the case for Trudeau. It certainly wasn't for Harper.

Edited November 27, 2015 by JohnBacon

[DRIFTER_016]

 

That may be the case for Trudeau. It certainly wasn't for Harper.

 

If you believe that I have some prime swamp land in Florida for sale.

It's the case for all of them here, the US.................................................

[manitoubass2]

Deer hunt in the morning, I am going to PULL THE TRIGGER?

 

Well actually my hopefully my boy does?

Edited November 27, 2015 by manitoubass2

[Dutch01]

I really, really want to dissect the streaming pile of horse manure that is the post above yours, but out of respect for the board and because you asked I will let it go.

 

Wow!!Thats very inclusive and compassionate of you Dutch. You are more a Lib than you try so hard not to admit. Dung knows Dung. "Enjoy your Boy"

 

(Sorry SirCranksaLot, I tried.....)

 

Moxie, it is neither compassionate nor inclusive to tolerate ignorance or animosity. Your post contained both.

 

-It was the Chretien/Martin government that put the strong banking controls in place that protected us during the recession of 2008. "Our boy" if you will, since I voted for him, tried to remove those regulations and give free reign to corporations. Luckily for Canada he failed. This is fact, not conjecture. If you had any desire to move past your partisanship you could verify this for yourself. I won't hold my breath.

-You wrote "Again, I guess "My Boy" didn't want to throw money away that almost never trickles down to those that need it. Ya. I'm ok with that." and this again belies your ignorance. Stephen Harper gave away hundreds of billions of dollars in corporate welfare precisely because he believed in trickle down economics, but you're okay with that apparently.

-You asked "Would it have been wrong to attend the conference with a handful of note takers and report to the premiers once he returned?". The answer is YES. Canada only works when Federal governments and Provincial governments work together. When they don't, you end with Meech Lake all over again. The Federal government has to work with Premiers of all parties or else risk fracturing our national unity. It is easily verifiable that Stephen Harper virtually ignored Premiers requests for meetings. Trudeau has reached out to the Premiers and they have expressed gratitude for same. This means Trudeau accomplished more towards unity during his morning cup of coffee than Harper did during his entire tenure.

-"Stephen didn't want anything to do with Ontario and Quebecs' Premiers but couldn't well invite the rest without allowing the two whiniest to be there." This statement makes clear that you are just fine with a PM who rules via petty vindictiveness, and the the tone of this statement and your entire post makes it clear that you are just fine with being petty and vindictive yourself.

-As for "One last thing. Lieberal voters are still Chuckleheads." and "Ya, this kids a real thinker alright. Forget the cup of coffee but if he lets his urine settle in a glass he can actually drink it. Now thats self sustaining." - Wow, you need to grow up.

-I have clearly stated that I have voted for both Liberals and Conservatives so your attempt to pigeon hole me as a liberal falls flat.

-You define the term low information voter. You have little to no grasp on the facts.

 

Dung knows Dung huh? Stay classy moxie.

 

Don't mistake having compassion for people for weakness. I am no shrinking violet, and when you act like a buffoon, you should expect to be called one.

 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Dutch01

[manitoubass2]

 

(Sorry SirCranksaLot, I tried.....)

 

Moxie, it is neither compassionate nor inclusive to tolerate ignorance or animosity. Your post contained both.

 

-It was the Chretien/Martin government that put the strong banking controls in place that protected us during the recession of 2008. "Our boy" if you will, since I voted for him, tried to remove those regulations and give free reign to corporations. Luckily for Canada he failed. This is fact, not conjecture. If you had any desire to move past your partisanship you could verify this for yourself. I won't hold my breath.

-You wrote "Again, I guess "My Boy" didn't want to throw money away that almost never trickles down to those that need it. Ya. I'm ok with that." and this again belies your ignorance. Stephen Harper gave away hundreds of billions of dollars in corporate welfare precisely because he believed in trickled down economics, but you're okay with that apparently.

-You asked "Would it have been wrong to attend the conference with a handful of note takers and report to the premiers once he returned?". The answer is YES. Canada only works when Federal governments and Provincial governments work together. When they don't, you end with Meech Lake all over again. The Federal government has to work with Premiers of all parties or else risk fracturing our national unity. It is easily verifiable that Stephen Harper virtually ignored Premiers requests for meetings. Trudeau has reached out to the Premiers and they have expressed gratitude for same. This means Trudeau accomplished more towards unity during his morning cup of coffee than Harper did during his entire tenure.

-"Stephen didn't want anything to do with Ontario and Quebecs' Premiers but couldn't well invite the rest without allowing the two whiniest to be there." This statement makes clear that you are just fine with a PM who rules via petty vindictiveness, and the the tone of this statement and your entire post makes it clear that you are just fine with being petty and vindictive yourself.

-As for "One last thing. Lieberal voters are still Chuckleheads." and "Ya, this kids a real thinker alright. Forget the cup of coffee but if he lets his urine settle in a glass he can actually drink it. Now thats self sustaining." - Wow, you need to grow up.

-I have clearly stated that I have voted for both Liberals and Conservatives so your attempt to pigeon hole me as a liberal falls flat.

-You define the term low information voter. You have little to no grasp on the facts.

 

Dung knows Dung huh? Stay classy moxie.

 

Don't mistake having compassion for people for weakness. I am no shrinking violet, and when you act like a buffoon, you should expect to be called one.

 

Masterdebator???

 

This is the best NF post Ive ever seen on here in regards to politics???

[John Bacon]

 

-It was the Chretien/Martin government that put the strong banking controls in place that protected us during the recession of 2008.

 

 

That's not true. The controls were already there before either of them became Prime Minister. They just didn't get rid of them.

[fishermccann]

X2,,,,,,,

[Dutch01]

 

That's not true. The controls were already there before either of them became Prime Minister. They just didn't get rid of them.

 

Thanks for the clarification! My point still stands though

Edited November 28, 2015 by Dutch01

[John Bacon]

I would agree with you there DRIFTER, and add that I think the real behind the scenes puppet masters are the corporations and lobby groups that donate to the parties.

 

Actually, corporations and lobby groups cannot make federal political donations (Corporations can make provincial poilitical donations).

 

Only individuals can make federal political donations. And there are limits on how much an individual can donate.

[Dutch01]

 

Actually, corporations and lobby groups cannot make federal political donations (Corporations can make provincial poilitical donations).

 

Only individuals can make federal political donations. And there are limits on how much an individual can donate.

 

They can, just not directly and openly. They can promise board seats after retirement to politicians that vote their way on issues. Campaign machines need products and services which can perhaps be offered pro bono, or at deeply discounted rates. A newspaper could offer to provide favorable coverage in exchange for a favorable ruling later. There are many ways to skin a cat.

 

And for the benefit of moxie I will pick on some Liberal this time

 

Jane Rounthwaite is married to Kathleen Wynne, and in 2012 at least, she owned 50% of a company called The Osborne Group of Toronto. This company has done work for the ministries of children and youth services, community and social services, economic development and trade, finance, health and long-term care and revenue. The Office of the Integrity Commissioner was asked about it, and said they cannot comment due to confidentiality requirements. The relationship between this company and the Liberal party has at least the appearance of a conflict of interest. (source: http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/10/wynnes-spouse-has-business-with-government)

 

Also appearing to be a conflict of interest is the cozy relationship between the Ontario Liberal Party and the Ontario English Catholic Teachers’ Association and Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation. They collectively have poured more than $6.5 million into the last three election campaigns, including $800,000 directly to the party, and millions more to pay for attack ads via Working Families. (source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/teachers-union-payouts-an-investment-ontario-minister-says/article26983218/)

 

I've attacked Harper for attack ads here earlier, it's no more acceptable to me that Wynne does it. In fact, it's even worse because it was done by an arms length agency that I don't think should be legal. And to really push it over the top, the Ontario Liberals conveniently paid four unions $3.74-million since 2008 to help cover their "costs during collective bargaining".

 

This is blatant scam and it's the kind of thing I was alluding to when I referred to corporations and lobby groups. I am certain it happens at the Federal level too, it just happens out of sight.

 

EDIT: I just found a great example (and it happens to be Liberal again)

 

Joe Volpe was a Liberal candidate who was found to have received $108,000 in contributions from 20 individuals that were all in some way connected to the top corporate executives of Apotex Pharmaceuticals. Each of the 20 individuals - which included 11-year-old twin boys and a 14-year-old boy - gave exactly $5,400, the maximum allowed at the time. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_political_financing_in_Canada#The_corrupting_influence_of_fundraising)

Edited November 28, 2015 by Dutch01

[NANUK]

 

Actually, corporations and lobby groups cannot make federal political donations (Corporations can make provincial poilitical donations).

 

Only individuals can make federal political donations. And there are limits on how much an individual can donate.

:rofl2: :rofl2:

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/congress-corporate-sponsors

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/political-donations-in-canada

 

This doesn't include "Favors" corporations do to their favorite politicians,

How do you think a politician gets a cushy job in a private firm after completing their term in office ? Govt contacts = contracts = $$$$$$$$

[Dutch01]

 

That's not true. The controls were already there before either of them became Prime Minister. They just didn't get rid of them.

 

I went back to review the source of my confusion, I did err when I said Chretien/Martin put the regulatory controls in place. I confused this with their refusal to deregulate the banks despite being pressured to (according to Chretien).

Edited November 28, 2015 by Dutch01

[Dutch01]

:rofl2: :rofl2:

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/congress-corporate-sponsors

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/political-donations-in-canada

 

This doesn't include "Favors" corporations do to their favorite politicians,

How do you think a politician gets a cushy job in a private firm after completing their term in office ? Govt contacts = contracts = $$$$$$$$

 

Thanks, I was struggling a bit to find good examples!

[moxie]

Thanks for the clarification! My point still stands though

Really Dutch you expose yourself more and more. Dissect this.

 

The government of Ontario has pilfered hundreds of billions of dollars with reckless abandon. If times were good i would refer to them as good intentions. One haiir brained idea after another with little oversight, no accountability and when pressed for an explanation, nothing more than a shoulder shrug. A complete, $50 Million/Day interest DISASTER. I would get into the factual illegal activity but as a Lib , you'd probably find an excuse for it anyway or as the Queen of Mississagua proclaimed "Its water under the bridge".

 

 

Quebec has cried for years, has been given markets, money and everything else theyve asked for simply because they can. Let one of the greatest cities in Canada crumble and because of that a viraly corrupt province had to dump billions of litres of sewage into a river for christ sake.

 

 

So when you whine about "My boy" not wanting to meet this hoard of trough swine just so he could throw good money after bad can you blame him for ignoring the whole lot? Especially Ontario and Quebec.Right or wrong he couldnt trust them .

 

 

Im a class less, fact less, unintelligent piece of crap. Pigeon hole you? Didnt have to Dutch. Some of the best fishing for suckers is on this forum

Edited November 28, 2015 by moxie

[John Bacon]

:rofl2: :rofl2:

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/congress-corporate-sponsors

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/political-donations-in-canada

 

This doesn't include "Favors" corporations do to their favorite politicians,

How do you think a politician gets a cushy job in a private firm after completing their term in office ? Govt contacts = contracts = $$$$$$$$

 

Your first link is American and is not relevant. Here is quote from your second link, "Corporations have been banned for donating to political parties in Canada since 2004"

 

The quote is not 100% accurate because the ban is for federal political parties. I will acknowledge that there are ways for corporations to get money to politicians. E.g. During the 2006 Liberal leadership race, Joe Volpe received donations from his employees children. Because we know how many 12 years olds save up their allowance so they can donate to their daddy's boss's political compaigns. But the corporations cannot make direct above the table legal donations to federal politicians or parties.

 

There will aways be favours such as job offers after retirement; but most of the money raised for the parties is done through lots of small donations.

[Dutch01]

Really Dutch you expose yourself more and more. Dissect this.

 

The government of Ontario has pilfered hundreds of billions of dollars with reckless abandon. If times were good i would refer to them as good intentions. One haiir brained idea after another with little oversight, no accountability and when pressed for an explanation, nothing more than a shoulder shrug. A complete, $50 Million/Day interest DISASTER. I would get into the factual illegal activity but as a Lib , you'd probably find an excuse for it anyway or as the Queen of Mississagua proclaimed "Its water under the bridge".

 

 

Quebec has cried for years, has been given markets, money and everything else theyve asked for simply because they can. Let one of the greatest cities in Canada crumble and because of that a viraly corrupt province had to dump billions of litres of sewage into a river for christ sake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So when you whine about "My boy" not wanting to meet this hoard of trough swine just so he could throw good money after bad can you blame him for ignoring the whole lot? Especially Ontario and Quebec.Right or wrong he couldnt trust them .

 

 

Im a class less, fact less, unintelligent piece of horse manure. Pigeon hole you? I don't have to as i had you pegged from moment one. Easy

For the record, I didn't call you a pile of horse manure, I called your post a pile of horse manure. I just wanted to clarify that one point.

 

The only thing being exposed here is your inability to read. I don't have a party. I'm not sure why you're confused. You keep attacking the Ontario Liberals as though you're attacking me. They're not my party. I didn't vote for them so you miss the mark there.

 

Your second paragraph makes you look like a western separatist, so much hatred for fellow Canadians.

 

You don't get to have a monopoly on being Canadian. I and every other person in Ontario and Quebec are just as Canadian as you. If you don't like it, you can move to Alaska for all I care, because we're not going anywhere.

 

Let me give you a tip about hate, and I'm being sincere here. Holding onto anger at someone is like drinking poison and expecting them to die. You're only hurting yourself. Stop drinking the poison.

[OhioFisherman]

Interesting Dutch, here we had a decision by our Supreme Court ( Citizens United ) that ruled corporations are people too, and basically opened the flood gates to unlimited funding for political campaigns.

 

https://www.rt.com/usa/defense-contractors-department-government-170/

 

This might help to better explain the US defense spending?

 

Our method leaves room for a lot of games to be played!

[Dutch01]

Interesting Dutch, here we had a decision by our Supreme Court ( Citizens United ) that ruled corporations are people too, and basically opened the flood gates to unlimited funding for political campaigns.

 

https://www.rt.com/usa/defense-contractors-department-government-170/

 

This might help to better explain the US defense spending?

 

Our method leaves room for a lot of games to be played!

Corporations as people is an interesting concept to me. If I did some of the things corporations do I'd go to jail. For example, Goldman Sachs role in the subprime mortgage fraud was criminal, but you can't put a corporation in jail. So they pay a fine (a cost of doing business), and keep their profits. If that were me instead of Goldman Sachs, I'd be serving 20 years to life.

 

Our system may be tighter than yours but I think there's still all kinds of shenanigans in the background.

[OhioFisherman]

We had 11 people killed and I don't remember how many injured in that Gulf Oil Spill a few years back? I am still waiting to see a trial? People usually have had one by now?

[moxie]

For the record, I didn't call you a pile of horse manure, I called your post a pile of horse manure. I just wanted to clarify that one point.

The only thing being exposed here is your inability to read. I don't have a party. I'm not sure why you're confused. You keep attacking the Ontario Liberals as though you're attacking me. They're not my party. I didn't vote for them so you miss the mark there.

Your second paragraph makes you look like a western separatist, so much hatred for fellow Canadians.

You don't get to have a monopoly on being Canadian. I and every other person in Ontario and Quebec are just as Canadian as you. If you don't like it, you can move to Alaska for all I care, because we're not going anywhere.

Let me give you a tip about hate, and I'm being sincere here. Holding onto anger at someone is like drinking poison and expecting them to die. You're only hurting yourself. Stop drinking the poison.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the record, I wrote the horse manure post. I call it reading between the lines. At least i know where i stand. So along with everything else your Lib mind has led you to think about me we can add that , i cant read, im a western seperatist and should leave. Oh ya, I'm also an angry hater who drinks poison. Anything else? Better yet save it for someone who cares.