Cold start issues

[Fish4Eyes]

I have a brand new Kirkland 700 cold crank amps battery in my 4Runner and it doesn't seem to want to start in the mornings when it is coldest. My previous battery was an interstate 700 CCA and the car did the same thing. I thought the battery may be on its way out, but after buying a brand new one same thing. However, when it is not cold it does not give me these issues whatsoever (car did this last winter as well). I had a guy boost me this morning and it starts right up with the brand new battery, after repeated failed attempts without a boost (never tried a boost with the old battery).

 

Does this sound like I need a higher cold crank amps battery?

 

The book which suggests which battery to buy in Costco recommends a 700 CCA.

 

If I repeatedly keep turning the ignition to the on position and hold it there, after a 2-3sec delay I can get it to start sometimes without a boost.

 

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Fish4Eyes

[Old Man]

Sounds more like you have a charging issue not a battery issue to me. Throw a volt meter on the alternator and check the output. Should be about 13.5 volts at idle.

[DanD]

Two batteries and it does the same thing; not likely a battery issue.

Things that it could be

- Parasitic draw draining the battery

- Corroded/dirty connections between battery positive and starter motor or battery negative and engine block

- Bad battery cables not allowing sufficient current flow from the battery

- Starter motor itself

Take the truck in and have it tested; guessing has probably already cost you a battery for no reason.

 

Dan.

[Fish4Eyes]

I thought about this but it doesn't sound like its it. When the engine bay warms up or if its above 0 ish, it starts up everytime. It also starts everytime in the spring, summer and early fall which would rule out the alternator. As mentioned, the car did the same thing last winter ever since I got a new battery put in. I was told that the Interstate battery had slightly less CCA than the battery it replaced but was assured it should be fine. Like mentioned, costco book recommends 700 CCA for my car and thats what I put in.

[lookinforwalleye]

The salesmen in me tells me you need a new truck....

[DanD]

I've seen this before that the starter could have some old dried out grease that has accumulated inside the starter housing. When it gets cold this grease is more like glue and the starter cannot push through this grease and crank the engine.

But you have to confirm whether the electrical portion of the starting circuit is up to snuff before changing out any more parts.

Doing a few simple voltage drop test across the different portions of the circuit will tell you pretty quick if there are cable and or connection problems.

 

Dan.

[Fish4Eyes]

I've seen this before that the starter could have some old dried out grease that has accumulated inside the starter housing. When it gets cold this grease is more like glue and the starter cannot push through this grease and crank the engine.

But you have to confirm whether the electrical portion of the starting circuit is up to snuff before changing out any more parts.

Doing a few simple voltage drop test across the different portions of the circuit will tell you pretty quick if there are cable and or connection problems.

 

Dan.

 

There is definetely no parisitic draw as the car starts fine during other seasons (for the past 2 years issue is only present in winter months and only when below 0).

 

If its the greace in the starter, how do you explain it starting up when boosted? It starts up instantly when boosted.

 

I will have to check the battery cables.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Fish4Eyes

[DRIFTER_016]

In my opinion I would start with the wiring and then have the starter checked.

It could be weak and in the winter it may need more power in order to get it to work.

I know with my vehicle and every vehicle I have owned that the car turns over much slower in the winter as the battery can not produce as much energy.

Living in the far North I have a block heater and a battery blanket.

The battery blanket warms the battery warm when plugged in.

My vehicle starts like it's 70* out when it is plugged in even @ -40.

[DanD]

The extra amperage supplied by the booster vehicle; MAY be enough to overcome whatever the issue is?

 

Dan.

[irishfield]

Starts while boosting? is this with your cables hooked to your battery connections or elsewhere on the vehicle?? You take it from there...

[DanD]

Here’s a basic schematic of how to connect a voltmeter to perform a voltage drop test across a starting circuit.

To test (for example) the positive side, you would connect the positive meter lead too the battery positive terminal. The negative lead of the meter too the main cable connection of the starter solenoid (the solenoid on the starter motor).

Now crank or attempt to crank the engine; while doing so note the meter reading.

There should not be any more then ¼ (.25) of a volt reading on a good circuit. Anything above a ¼ volt, then there is high resistance somewhere in the circuit. If the terminals are clean and tight the problem is the cable itself.

What you are reading is the amount of voltage that is lost or used up as it passes through the terminals and the cable.

Voltage drop testing is much more accurate then an ohmmeter test; because you’re testing a live circuit.

An ohmmeter test can make a cable with better then 90% of the cable rotted away still look ok; because it’s testing a dead circuit with no load on it.

 

Dan.

 

Forgot to add.

If the cables pass the voltage drop tests; the issue is more then likely the starter motor.

Edited November 21, 2014 by DanD

[jimmer]

Sounds like bad wiring, like others have said. The cold causes the issue. Always best to start with the wiring. Following DanD advice is the best place to start.

[mike rousseau]

If you leave ANYTHING plugged in this can happen...

 

Unplug phone chargers... GPS... Etc...

 

Satellite radio got me... Had to jump my truck 1-2 a week for a month before I realized what was happening...

[Mister G]

You could still have hidden voltage draw that is draining your battery and then in cold weather it lowers your battery power enough to not turn over the engine.

 

Do this as it's the easiest to check, especially if you have one other person to help.

 

Take a volt reading across the battery while it's still connect to the vehicle.....write it down....let's say it reads 12.8 volts........now have someone watch the volt meter as you start pulling fuses one at a time. If that volt meter stays the same reinstall that fuse. Keep doing this and if the meter jumps up you have now found the circuit that may be your problem.

[irishfield]

He says it starts fine with a boost... and why I asked where he was connecting the cables. Battery to battery, or hooked up from the boosting vehicle to dead cars engine block and battery... or engine block and a mid point connection terminal like many GM trucks have because you can't get to the battery lug.

 

Have you tried charging the battery overnight and then starting in the morning? Do you still need a boost?

 

That answered... would narrow it down to:

 

Battery to Battery boost:

A dirty cable to battery connection on the "dead" vehicle as the jumper cables work fine using the existing cables to engine block and starter. Shows a bad junction of battery lug to cable connections. (I had this on the 2500 I'm currently driving, thought for sure it was the battery and was just a crappy side post connection)

 

Using frame and battery:

 

You have a bad ground cable from engine / frame to battery or again just a dirty cable terminal to battery lug.

 

Using the mid point cable post (if like a GM truck). You have a bad connection from that cable post to the wire to the battery, or again a bad battery lug connection on the + cable.

 

The tip off is the "if I turn the ignition on and off a few times sometimes it will start". You have a dirty connection somewhere and the current draw final sparks a contact and lets you get enough juice to start.

Edited November 22, 2014 by irishfield

[bigbuck]

Check the ground strap. You will probably find that it is badly corroded esp on a 96.

[John Bacon]

 

There is definetely no parisitic draw as the car starts fine during other seasons (for the past 2 years issue is only present in winter months and only when below 0).

 

 

 

I think you are jumping to conclusions. A warm car is easier to start because the grease and oils is not as thick; plus a warm battery can deliver more current. A car may start fine with 2/3 or 3/4 charge in the battery in warm weather.

 

However, with a cold start the motor is harder to turn over; and your battery has less power when it is cold.

 

A parasitic draw may not prevent the car from starting on a nice warm day; but it will be more of a problem when combined with the additional challeges of cold weather. The same could apply for any of the other issues mentioned. The cold weather may be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back.

 

As for starting when boosted; two batteries (one of which may be warmed up) plus an alternator may be enough to overcome the issue that is preventing the starts.

[Fisherman]

As for starting when boosted; two batteries (one of which may be warmed up) plus an alternator may be enough to overcome the issue that is preventing the starts.

OP also said he got another new battery with the same result. Most likely bad wiring/contact points.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Fisherman

[Bernie]

A starter that has bad bushings can draw too much energy from the battery. The situation becomes worse when cold.
Also like a few guys have mentioned, poor connections.
Also, I have seen where some ignition systems will fail to produce a spark if the voltage drops too far. Many vehicle computer systems need minimum 5 volts to operate. Poor connections can certainly drop the voltage available below that point.

Adding a boost from a running vehicle putting out 14 volts can often raise the voltage enough to create the spark to fire.