slot sizes

[Sinker]

The lakes can sustain a recreational fishery no problem. Its the bigger environmental issues that hurt the populations. A guy catching a limit bears no weight against trent severn wiping out a whole year class of fingerlings....I don't think your understanding my point(s). The sudden invasion of crappies in the lakes feeding on young of the year walleye eat a hell of a lot more than any fisherman will eat in a season. The clearing water and deeper light penetration. Caused by zebra mussels, has changed habitat that will never be the same again. In the long term, the lakes will recover, whether the limit is reduced or not.

 

I get the point that a fish that has to be released because of the slot is a good thing. Of course it is, but there are much bigger players that have a much more significant impact on the populations besides anglers.

 

S.

[beagle dad]

understand what your saying

 

seems to me that the same attitude surprised the heck out of the people on the east coast of Canada

no way can we catch all the cod on the ocean.....got so bad they put a no fishing law in

 

tell me if you can overharvest a ocean whats the chances of a lake surviving

and yes other factors where involved there as well

[Sinker]

Your comparing apples to oranges with that argument. I grew up on the east coast, and come from a family of inshore fisherman. I know all about the cod fishery. I wouldn't be in ON if there were still fish there. Blame the canadian govt for that one. Even the fisherman were telling them to shut it down long before anything was done. Its hard to blame the fisherman, when their livelihood depends on catching fish, and the govt gave them a "sustainable" quota to harvest.

 

Anyways, its a good discussion, and I do understand your point of view, I just think there are much bigger impacts on the fishery than recreational angling.

 

S.

[Sinker]

I meant to add that the east coast fishery was sstricly due to over harvest. There were no invasive species, dropped water levels on spawning grounds, or new species introduced.

 

S.

[beagle dad]

its amazing how the fisheries , wildlife , environment took care of itself

then you add humans...an arrogant species who thinks they can manage mother nature herself....

[crappieperchhunter]

I agree with you 100% Shayne. To me overharvest is a none issue for the Kawartha Walleyes. We caught tons of them for years and years. BUT...just a few short years after crappie started showing up...the walleye numbers take a real big nose dive. I'm not a biologist but it seems pretty obvious to me. Also the Trent Severn has really dropped the ball on maintaining proper water levels for the eggs after the spawn. I am told that they have lost more then a few year classes because of this.

 

We have a cottage up in Bobcaygeon. I am truly amazed every single year just how few people I actually see the ENTIRE season targeting eyes on Pidgeon or Sturgeon. Most weekends when I am out there I have all kinds of good water ALL to myself. And like I said this is on weekends. If I'm up there for a weeks holidays there is virtually no fishermen on the water through the week.

Edited April 5, 2013 by crappieperchhunter

[lickmyarmpit]

Slot sizes are a great idea and should be posted at every major ramp so that everyone is aware of the rules. As for the kawarthas crappie population I'm hoping them to be cooperative In the next few weeks, and I'll do my part to thin their ranks......

[Big Cliff]

Well if the crappie are such a big problem then why is there a limit on them? I know how we could do some real damage to the crappie population, just post it no limit on them and we'd have droves of people from Toronto coming up here and hauling buckets full of them home.

[Garnet]

All the lakes that have crash came at the very peak of the crappie on that lake and with a no catch Limit. This is a natural thing they quickly drop down in size but the #'s stay very high.

 

I also don't believe zebra mussels are factor. They peak in the late 90's and every walleye in the system have lived their whole life with Zebra mussels.

 

So the Question why have the walleye came back.

 

In the late 90's I was involved in the Kawartha Angler walleye spawning survey on Scugog. It' very important to know trhat walleyes are prodcasters they don't make nest like bass. The female swims slowly around with 2-3 males dropping their eggs over a wide area.

 

Carp were also following every female walleye that I seen just vacuming up those eggs.

 

Now you all remember about 10 years ago the great Carp die off. This is what I believe allowed the walleye to come back huge.

 

Except the Tri Lakes I'm worried and Balsam is just a ticking bomb.

[fishindevil]

All the lakes that have crash came at the very peak of the crappie on that lake and with a no catch Limit. This is a natural thing they quickly drop down in size but the #'s stay very high.

 

I also don't believe zebra mussels are factor. They peak in the late 90's and every walleye in the system have lived their whole life with Zebra mussels.

 

So the Question why have the walleye came back.

 

In the late 90's I was involved in the Kawartha Angler walleye spawning survey on Scugog. It' very important to know trhat walleyes are prodcasters they don't make nest like bass. The female swims slowly around with 2-3 males dropping their eggs over a wide area.

 

Carp were also following every female walleye that I seen just vacuming up those eggs.

 

Now you all remember about 10 years ago the great Carp die off. This is what I believe allowed the walleye to come back huge.

 

Except the Tri Lakes I'm worried and Balsam is just a ticking bomb.

where did you come up with that?? so much misinformation.....lol

[Sinker]

I'm with fishindevil, that doesn't make much sense.

 

Carp are pretty inactive when the water is only a couple degrees celcius. The walleyes are spawning while the ice is still on the lakes.

 

Scugog hasn't had zebras since the late 90's either. Maybe the last 6-7 years tops. It was the last lake to get them, the same as crappies. The tri lakes is another story. You have to look at the system lake by lake, they are all different, but they are all being affected the same ways, just at different times. Rice is a prime example. Its already been thru the problems scugog is in now, and has recovered really well.....before the carp die off. The carp theory doesn't add up.

 

Trent severn has a huge impact on the spawn. Water levels mean everything. If the fish get in and spawn when the water is very high, then the water drops before the eggs hatch, there goes another year class. We've been luck the last few years with steady water levels at spawning time. This could be one of those years where the water is high at spawning, then drops. I hope they hold back as much water as possible, for as long as possible. I'm pretty sure they have made some changes to thier mandate to allow the fish to spawn before playing with water levels. I'd rather have fish in the lakes, than run my boat thru the locks!

 

The bottom line is that there has been a lot of serious environmental impacts in the last 10 yrs, that have much bigger impacts than angling pressure.

 

S.

[Garnet]

I have 40 years on the Kawrathas. I know Sturgeon, Balsam, Tri Lakes, Scugog and Rice. I know both walleye and bass on these lake better than almost anybody from angling point of view.

 

Then I've spend 100's hrs working with MNR on everthing from Lake Ontario cold water creeks to Walleye spawning.

 

Yes I'm qualified and I use my real name.

[Garnet]

Sinker you correct zebra mussel are not a factor on Scugog.

 

What you need to do is get off the chesterfield and go look at Shoal/shore spawning walleyes. The carp are all over them.

 

The reason why Scugog took so long to crash is water color. It was my hope that the walleye fry would be protected from those crappie looking up for easy meal by water color.

 

Here's something else to think about. My bass club had Jason Burnuz out and talking about all the wild rice on lower Pidgeon. Jason is the Fed. Bio. for Ocean and fishery's. He thinks the rice came back because of the carp die off. Apparently carp love rice. And he was living on the Tri lakes.

 

Also on Scugog fast water spawning areas are not a factor it's all shoal/shore spawning.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Garnet

[outllaw]

slot size never worked on l.st clair.

reality is enviroment change and invasive species..

when zebra mussels changed the lake shifts on species and how to fish them became very prevalent.

[Sinker]

The reason scugog took so long is because its at the end of the chain (or the start, however you want to look at it). The crappies got in there last of all the kawartha lakes, so its the last to crash. Give it a few years, it will come back. The crappie population is already starting to stabilize, and numbers are coming down. If I remember right, the walleye in scugog seemed to disappear at the same time as the carp die off, so I'm still skeptical about the whole carp/walleye relationship.

 

I know JayB personally, but I'm not sure what the wild rice/carp relationship has to do with slot sizes. I know it produces some great duck hunting I have never really thought about carp raiding walleye eggs, but it is an interesting theory, and one I am going to research more thoroughly.

 

This is a great topic, and one I'm passionate about. I enjoy reading the replies. I'm not saying I'm right, and what I say is all fact, but I've spent a lot of times on the kawartha's, lived in the area for the last 25 years. I've even met you personally, Garnet I've done plenty of work with MNR and local CA's, and have a pretty good idea whats going on. That said, I'm no fishery biologist. I speak from experience, not training.

 

S.

[ecmilley]

Sinker you correct zebra mussel are not a factor on Scugog.

 

What you need to do is get off the chesterfield and go look at Shoal/shore spawning walleyes. The carp are all over them.

 

The reason why Scugog took so long to crash is water color. It was my hope that the walleye fry would be protected from those crappie looking up for easy meal by water color.

 

Here's something else to think about. My bass club had Jason Burnuz out and talking about all the wild rice on lower Pidgeon. Jason is the Fed. Bio. for Ocean and fishery's. He thinks the rice came back because of the carp die off. Apparently carp love rice. And he was living on the Tri lakes.

 

Also on Scugog fast water spawning areas are not a factor it's all shoal/shore spawning.

never ever seen carp following walleyes spawning on my shorline, which they do have been watching them everyspring for 10 years now, not saying your wrong (grab a case and a flashlight come join me on top of the boat house

but the have seen a huge difference related to water clarity and introduction of invasive species myself and fluctating water levels have been devastating to year classes

[fishindevil]

water lever fluctuation,and invasive species...have done more damage than anything !!!!! and i have been around the kawarthas as well for 40yrs,and my grandparents ran a fishing lodge as well,and my real name is shawn !!!

[Garnet]

Scugog is the top of the system, all water runs to Strugeon.

 

The 3 years I did the spawning survey on different parts of Scugog 2 years I had exellent vis. The 1st year I seen 800 +/- on 1 shore. Every female by size had 2-3 carp sucking up the egss and milt. I had to look real close most times to see the male just behind the female, the carp were all over them.

 

I also believe Rice come back perfectly times the carp die off. I will check some stuff later. Think 1999 was the carp die off. I'm sue somebody will no.

Rice has been crasy for 6 years now.

 

Heres something else a couple buddys have caught a few 10 inch walleye on scugog this winter.

[ecmilley]

looks like a good excuse to go bow hunting for carp then

[mike rousseau]

I've watched carp feeding on sucker eggs... They sit behind them in the current and gobble em up... That's how I know when it's time to fish that spot...

[jimmer]

The walleye that spawn at the lock/dam in Lindsay are always competing with carp and suckers.

I didn't see carp following the walleye shore spawners on Pigeon when I checked them back in the 90's through KA.

I believe that there are many factors that have had a negative impact on walleye numbers, all of them mentioned here, but to say that angling pressure has nothing to do with it, is a huge mistake. I'm hoping that the walleye continue to be elusive due to clearer water and their numbers grow. I just saw too many people keeping their limits of six when there was no slot. It's pretty sad to see stringers over the side of the boat that are full of 4-5 pounders during the few weeks after opening. However, it was legal at the time and people did it.

Has anyone caught a walleye out of Chemong lately?

[beagle dad]

THANK YOU yes lots of factors just hope slot sizes and lower limits will reduce human factor

The walleye that spawn at the lock/dam in Lindsay are always competing with carp and suckers.

I didn't see carp following the walleye shore spawners on Pigeon when I checked them back in the 90's through KA.

I believe that there are many factors that have had a negative impact on walleye numbers, all of them mentioned here, but to say that angling pressure has nothing to do with it, is a huge mistake. I'm hoping that the walleye continue to be elusive due to clearer water and their numbers grow. I just saw too many people keeping their limits of six when there was no slot. It's pretty sad to see stringers over the side of the boat that are full of 4-5 pounders during the few weeks after opening. However, it was legal at the time and people did it.

Has anyone caught a walleye out of Chemong lately?

[beagle dad]

walleye recovery is just an opinion obviously

no 1 here will convince me the #'s will ever come back to what it was in the 60's and 70's

not unless you shut down the fishery altogether..

mnr comes up with #'s that are compared only with the last 10 yrs.. if you slow the rate of decline in their eyes its a good thing

 

just my opinion

[crappieperchhunter]

Well if the crappie are such a big problem then why is there a limit on them? I know how we could do some real damage to the crappie population, just post it no limit on them and we'd have droves of people from Toronto coming up here and hauling buckets full of them home.

Be careful what you wish for Cliff.

[Garnet]

So to tie the wild rice into the walleyes #'s.

 

With the huge re birth of the rice beds on Pidgeon, Goose Bay and even Balsam is a huge return of Carp population just around the corner. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Scugog are all shore/shoal spawners.

Sturgeon likely has the best fast water spawning.

Pidgeon the same 2 good fast water areas.

Upper Buckhorn and Chemong are Shoal/shore spawn. UB does have a fast water area most don't no were it is.

Rice has 3 that most people know about plus about 50 little creeks that run in the south shore. Most so small you can't even find them. And a real active Shoal/shore spawn.

 

So it's true all are a little different. Except for Tri Lakes all have recovered to be better than ever. All had major carp die off.