F7Firecat Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 terrorism is a wonderful way to get what you want...........the government the opp just arrest the innocent people and let the terrorism continue on and on an on...........nothing happens to the terrorists saw it first hand along with many here in caledonia and im supposed to support and feel sympathetic with these people heck the natives walked into a home builders house , beating him with a stair banister in his own house he was building for daughter, he now has long term brain damage and the police.....well they just watched ......... most of you have no clue what happened here in Caledonia, wait until the terrorists invade your town then some of you may change your tune many many more examples of this, this is just the tip of the iceberg, but we are just refferred to as racists if we question it i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Interesting after 2 compliments---the terrorists term gets continually repeated If I was that concerned----I would jump in my vehicle---drive over to Oshweken---go into the Band Office and complain I visited 6 Nations many times as a kid---nice place Edited January 19, 2013 by bushart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskieman Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) not at all ! Terror comes in many forms, it has nothing to do with who you are or the color of your skin, personal thoughts or beliefs , or this topic. Ever since the " War on Terror " was declared by the U.S. , the term Terrorist has been abused and used too loosly. IMO , comparing the Caledonia Land Claim or OKA or Ipperwash dispute to " Idle No More" is like comparing an apple with a musky. 2 cents. Randy Edited January 19, 2013 by Randy from Sturgeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecmilley Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 really what i want to know with the native issue is are you canadian or not first nations or not a part of canada or not, then after we can set that straight, lets solve the rest of this and get back to important stuff like fishing and hunting instead of being divided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/bill-c-45-simply-makes-it-easier-for-first-nations-to-lease-land/article6780103/ I found this Article interesting as well on the other side of the coin... The intentions are not laid out quite so sinister. I have a civilized question that I'd like oppinions on with regards to the Protest. What is the end game? What is this protest hopping to come away with? What objectives are expected to be reached? In an ideal world...what ends this? And at the risk of being called a toll...which I am not...I simply don't agree with the protest and lets not forget the OP was asking for thoughts, and oppinions. My bigger question that remains unanswered....are first Nations people Canadian Citizens? Do we have a soveriegn nation living with in our Nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 really what i want to know with the native issue is are you canadian or not first nations or not a part of canada or not, then after we can set that straight, lets solve the rest of this and get back to important stuff like fishing and hunting instead of being divided Pretty sure they wish to negotiate---Nation to Nation As they describe---never having been conquered but settled by Treaty A nation within a Nation---You know like Quebec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 really what i want to know with the native issue is are you canadian or not first nations or not a part of canada or not, then after we can set that straight, lets solve the rest of this and get back to important stuff like fishing and hunting instead of being divided Thats a very quick summary of my long winded post! I just don't think you can have it both ways... Take the money, complain about the way its used, then tell the people who gave you the money to butt out... And then denounce being affiliated with them publically but also ask for public support in the same breath.... How unorganized and confusing is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskieman Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Absolute valid questions ! Mr .Milley and Cookslav . I'd like to hear those points concretely answered . Ahh politics . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Pretty sure they wish to negotiate---Nation to Nation As they describe---never having been conquered but settled by Treaty A nation within a Nation---You know like Quebec If thats the case then I say nuts... I don't want my tax dollars funding a seperate nation. I don't want my social services being drained by a Nation whcih does not pay in to the system. What gain does that give me, or my children. Quebec pays taxes, and they are a distinct society....not a Nation with in a Nation Quebecs citizens are Canadian Citizens... BIG difference between the 2 situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 If thats the case then I say nuts... I don't want my tax dollars funding a seperate nation. I don't want my social services being drained by a Nation whcih does not pay in to the system. What gain does that give me, or my children. Quebec pays taxes, and they are a distinct society....not a Nation with in a Nation Quebecs citizens are Canadian Citizens... BIG difference between the 2 situations. You may wish to ask Santa next year for a Time Travel Machine then------Allowing you the ability to go back and re-write history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) What are you implying? Quebec is not a sovereign nation? Are you implying that First Nations are a Nation with in our nation and are to be considered sovereign and not Canadians? Edited January 19, 2013 by Cookslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aplumma Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Just a side note here: The reason a thread gets locked is when things are not discussed with facts, becomes a mud slinging contest or becomes heavily trolled. As a rule all of the Mod's want to hear what you have to say and I personally have learned a great deal from everyone here. Sorry to interrupt this thread with this I just wanted to let the people know that we are human too. Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'll actually bow out now Art---Pretty sure I've done what I can do It's gettin to the point where no matter what info from varying sources are provided---those feelings won't be swayed here---too entrenched I'm lookin at your sig here above as I type and see that name Lincoln----he tried to do what was right---look where it got him Adios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookslav Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Fair enough... Keeping it factual is always best and to be honest getting to the facts or getting to the answers is probobly one of my biggest pet peeves with the whole movement/this thread....the credible sources posted including my own are factually "based" on the words of activists and journalists who are not providing solid sources for their information themselves. Its frustrating....a whole lot of hypothisis and oppinion based on potential future issues and not current standings. Points have been made and discussed and there has been a lot of factual "observation" pointed out as well. But the meat of the issue IMO is the gaps in the ideology are vast. They are what they are...who's right vs who's wrong is a matter of oppinion and not fact and there fore cannot be discussed in this avenue with out being locked down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I have been asked to continue...... I read this article today in the Ottawa Citizen Stehen Maher---postmedia In September 1915 the federal government went to the Exchequer Court of Canada to seek an order to force the eviction of the Mi’kmaq from the seaside Kings Road Reserve on the outskirts of Sydney, Cape Breton. Former Sydney mayor W.A. Crowe testified that the Mi’kmaq had to be moved: “They are hardly over the nomad state yet. This is an anomaly in my judgment that in the centre of a city which is the size of Sydney that there should be two acres occupied by Indians in that spot.” Chief Joe Christmas said his people didn’t want to move. He said his people “do not like to live away from that place. It is handy for their work, and they have a good schoolhouse and everything is complete, and we have good doctors and good agents and good teachers and the children go to school every day.” But they were bringing down property values, as William C. Wicken explains in his book, The Colonization of Mi’kmaw Memory and History, so Justice Audette ordered that they be evicted. “No one cares to live in the immediate vicinity of the Indians,” he wrote. “The overwhelming weight of the evidence is to the effect that the reserve retards and is a clog in the development of that part of the city.” The Mi’kmaq were moved inland a few kilometres to Membertou, to a bowl of swampland that nobody wanted, out of sight and mind, where they lived as second-class citizens in a community of tarpaper shacks and outhouses. In 1971 a young man from the community, Donald Marshall Junior, was wrongly convicted of murdering his friend, Sandy Seale, in a Sydney park. Marshall spent 11 years in prison, where he was disciplined for loudly proclaiming his innocence, before he managed to show that another man killed Seale and was released. In the summer of 1993, Marshall went fishing in Pomquet Harbour, caught 210 kilograms of eels, which he sold for $787.10. He was charged with fishing without a licence, but claimed in court that he had a right to fish based on treaties from the 1750s. The case went to the Supreme Court of Canada, which ruled for Marshall in 1999. Mi’kmaq immediately went out on the water to exercise that newly restored right, fishing for lobster, which fetches a better price than eel. This almost set off a shooting war in Burnt Church, N.B. To avert the crisis, the federal government sent officials around to all the Mi’kmaq communities, and the chiefs bargained hard, winning fishing licences, boats, gear, training and money. In Membertou, Chief Terry Paul and band CEO Bernd Christmas were determined that Junior’s legal victory would make a difference for the community, and they were ruthless at the table. They put the money they won from Ottawa with money that they wrested from a pipeline company after winning an injunction against the National Energy Board, which had approved a project crossing their traditional lands without consulting them. “It was like a one-two punch,” Christmas recalled this week. “It was great at the time. We were using the system to get to where we wanted to be.” They used this seed money to develop businesses. Membertou now has a casino, a mall, a fancy restaurant and a convention centre-hotel complex. Nobody in Sydney would now say the reserve retards development, since the band has $112 million in revenue a year and employs 700 people. Cape Breton-Canso MP Rodger Cuzner said Cape Bretoners are proud of Membertou. “I think people are impressed that they are able to find a way through themselves,” he said. “It’s seizing those opportunities and making the best out of those opportunities and not squandering them. I think they’ve developed a certain degree of acumen.” Membertou was able to do these things because it had the power to do so, because the courts forced the federal government to honour the treaties their ancestors signed. First Nations had power when they signed those treaties, but over time the Crown came to ignore them, and aboriginals were powerless. That powerlessness was at the root of the abuse at residential schools. Aboriginals couldn’t say: No, you’re not taking my child from me. They couldn’t travel freely, own property, vote, organize politically or get a fair shake from the courts. Those days are done, thanks to people like Marshall, who used the justice system that wrongly imprisoned him to enforce his people’s rights. People on both sides make a mistake when we think about our relationship with First Nations as a zero-sum game, where the Crown has to yield something that will cause the rest of us hardship. We are better off when our neighbours are prosperous, and they will be prosperous where they have the power to win access to resources and the acumen to use those resources wisely. Across Canada, aboriginals are demanding that the Crown recognize their treaty rights. The prime minister has committed to work with them to do so. We’ll all be better off if they succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Thanks for posting that bushart, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 No Problem Manitou B You know I read somewhere about Paul Martin's interest in this matter stems back when he was young working around Hudson Bay---He saw the conditions then and it stuck with him I, like you have seen it 1st hand-----and it does leave an impression That's a real time review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blarg Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) There is so much silly misinformation in this thread that it is painful to read. That includes things like links to rabble.ca, i mean it is only the community of the most left wing people in the country, some of them will openly admit to being communists, sure the opinion of people like that wouldn't be tainted by thos extreme beliefs, but then reading some of the posts here it seems some members might want to sign up over there. O and then there is Pam Palmater, who works out of Ryerson, perhaps the most left wing university in the country that also harbors the likes of Wendy Cukier, the head of the coalition for gun control. But hey, im sure Pam has no reason other than her desire to imrpove native lives to be a part of this movement, the movement that appears to be apposed to the current grand chief, you know, Sean Atleo, the guy who she was a runnuer up to in that last election..she has more extreme views than he does, and wanted his job. But hey, it isn't like the far left to be sore losers when they have lost an election to a conservative, my stars no. So this omnibus bill, yea, i don't really agree with it being done that way, but it's far from the first time, one of the first things Trudeau did was pass an omnibus bill, Chretien did it too, how many of you were alive then and were upset about it? It couldn't be that when your guy wins you don't mind as much, nah, i mean it isn't as though some of you are aligning yourself with people who legitimately think Harper is a cross between Hitler and Darth Vader. Go read Rabble if you don't believe that, that is the way some of those people think of him. So c-45, did you know that there will be no environmental impact assesments and anyone can come on to your land or native land and start mining! Of course that isn't true at all, now im sure everyone here is capable of googling things like the Ontario environment act, or the same for any province, and if you truly believe that there will be no environmental protection after the bill is law I suggest you call the province and tell them you are going to dump a barrel of oil into your nearest, 'non protected' waterway, im sure you can fight the charges with the 'but i was told on the internet there would be no laws to protect our waters' defense. Im not saying there isn't going to be changes, but some of the stuff being said here is absolute crap. O hey, did you know that some of the provisions in the bill, such as allowing reserves to more easily lease their own lands were lobbied for by some of the western chiefs? Of course it doesn't actually say that they have to, despite what you may have read. I read a post earlier that said something to the effect of, why do i need a pipeline, what will it do for me, well idk, considering oil makes just about everything in the modern world possible i would say that we all need it to some extent, or do some of you get broad band in you caves on the computer you built from stones? You do know that the country already has pipelines all over the place, you must, so saying you didn't and still having an opinion on the subject would be pretty sad. O but we can't have tankers being loaded on the BC coast! That is just wrong, of course there are super tankers in the bay of fundy all of the time off loading millions of gallons to the refinery in St John, but it seems that the east coast is somehow expendable, but some of you don't need oil, living in your cave and all. Also, it isnt as though everything we do has some sort of environmental impact, and it isn't as though people need jobs, after all, we will have strong economy if we don't develop our resources and allow our roads and railways to be blocked. This movement doesn't know where it is going, doesn't really know what it is about, and the people at the bottom, those who actually need help are being lead around by a select few who used disinformation about c-45 as a way to stir up trouble. Now it's about treaty rights, self governance, taking the country back from the settlers (yes thats most of us, even if you were born here), more money, hunger strikes(that aren't), etc. If you think that we need to take better care of our natives then you are a paternalist, you deny their own ability to take care of and do for themselves, perpetuating this system is never going to work. Neither is pie in the sky discussions about getting the country back, the 'settlers' aren't leaving. The movement has been appropriated by the far left, the eco nuts and the 99%ers(the occupy movement), those who wish to behave more as our enemeies than our countrymen because they think they can get something out of it, caught in the middle are real people who for whatever reason need help, but sometimes helping people is forcing them to help themselves. One final example, Attawapiskat and the non hunger strike, last year the government tried to bring in a third party manager, the band didn't want it, the left complained of paternalism form the government, the government fought in court and lost, and now there are a lot of problems with accounting on the millions of dollars that goes into the band, and not just from the government. So what was the first thing the NDP and people like palmater(perhaps not her exactly, though i thought she may have on the cbc) said, well it's the governments fault for not ensuring the money was spent properly, so there you have it, look after us, but don't look after us, we can do it ourselves but when we fail it's your fault. The government is trying to change that system a little at a time, and some of the people in this movement are worried that at some point the gravy train might not be as lucrative, or the idealistic 'we want our country back' people wont have weapons to fight with, while others are asking for more autonomy, getting it, and then being shut down by their own people under the guise of protecting the water, which will still be proteced, in many cases provincial laws are stricter than federal. So go ahead, after c-45 is law go pollute your favorite lake or stream, make sure you video tape it and send it to the province, maybe a screw you you can't touch me quote at the end, just to rub their noses in it, i dare ya. One last thing, I care about the environment as much as anyone, the idea that natives care more is another left wing myth, they are just people like us, equal, the same, isn't that what we all want? You can't have that when you start from a false pretense about them being more connected to nature than us, that is a farce, all of our ancestors lived closer to the land in our very recent past, and now they for the most part live just like we do, and not only are they not going back to the land, they want more of the convieniences most of us have, no matter how isolated they are, and I don't blame them. Edited January 20, 2013 by blarg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskieman Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Wow ! That was a good read ! Great points , well written ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well Blarg I won't copy your long winded pontification---once is likely enough No doubt that you hail from The Conservative backbenches Again as we are discussing Idle No More----You bring up Attawapiskat spending You may have seen that note I made a few posts back where distractions make it easy for Longshanks to continue digging while diverting attention from his own agenda---it's all good Nice touch throwing gun control into that rant and communists also---ya got a two fer But I guess when opposition parties/Environmental Groups/Farmers/Fishermen//Outdoorspeople etc. etc. all say that budget bill will deplete environmental protection---they're ALL WRONG!!!----yes!! Thankfully someone nailed it!!---you can be right---so glad we finally have the answer Do you live near Caledonia?? I do notice that you chose to just submit opinions though without back-up---it's all good---proof is over-rated Congrats on being right------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) So Blarg i suppose you think this is ok treatment for your fellow countrymen so your wife can wear a diamond on her hand...the people affected by this are living not in caves ...but un insulated sheds with a single extention cord to supply power....this is ok with you ? watch the video http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/12/13/de-beers-decision-to-dump-sewage-into-attawapiskat-played-role-in-current-housing-crisis/ Do you disagree with the media of the aptn and rabble.ca because they dont conform to your opinion?....you and Cheif Therese Spence have something in common then because she has no faith in the misleading Government controlled Media either....Another video for you that didnt make the news because it didnt conform to the bias of the Media...instead they edited her interveiw to conform... Edited January 20, 2013 by Twocoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmarentette Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Thanks for posting that bushart, much appreciated. x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) Feel free to read Bill C45....This is what a wolf in sheeps clothing reads like http://www.fin.gc.ca/pub/c45/4-eng.asp Edited January 20, 2013 by Twocoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishfield Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here's a picture for you to go with it twocoda.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twocoda Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Here's a picture for you to go with it twocoda.. Thanks Wayne looks like a bunch more sheep waiting for Harper to open the gate for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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