Ethanol Gas and Two-Stroke Engines??

[JustinHoffman]

Hello All,

 

De-winterized the boat today, and while towing it to the lake, stopped for some gas. Put regular gas in (like I have for the last 19 years), and just when I'm putting the nozzle back on the pump, the owner ran out to greet me. He told me that I shouldn't be using Regular gas with a two-stroke engine, and Supreme is what is needed. He explained to me that this past January, the government made new regulations and 10% of regular gas must be Ethanol. Supposedly, this is a no-no for 2-stroke engines, including outboards, chainsaws, lawn trimmer, etc. If it is used for a short period of time, the engine can basically blow up. He even showed me a big sign he had erected in the store with all of the information. He went on to say that the government failed to explain this to the public, and many folk aren't aware of it. He even gave the link to the government website.

So, is this the case? I seem to remember hearing something a couple of months ago, but obviously I took no notice. Curious if I should somehow dispose of this "bad" gas, and go with Supreme.

 

Any thoughts, comments or knowledge on this subject??

 

Good Fishing,

Justin

[Terry]

well my understanding of it is

if you buy a water separator for your gas line you will not have any problem

as ethonal only becomes a problem when water is mixed with the gas

at 10% it isn't much of a problem

[caper]

Not sure what the effects of it are on the outboards although i have heard there can be some problems. However from my understanding the oil companies must have 10% ethanol but it doesn't have to be in all their regular gas. Say someone in Toronto might get gas that has 20% and someone up north might get 2% or none... As long as 10% of their total volume includes ethanol.. At least that's how I took the explanation I heard in the news..

 

Doesn't really answer your question though!!

[JustinHoffman]

Terry - so, would you use the gas that is in the tank, or start fresh with Premium? The gas owner did relay a story to me of a customer that was told of the caution, yet continued to use the Ethanol for his chainsaw. Came in a month later to the gas station to apologize, as his engine blew up the day before...

 

Don't want to blow a $3000 engine, but then again, maybe it's more hype than truth. Looks like the amount spent at the gas station will be going up!!

 

Good Fishing,

Justin

[Fisherman]

I think part of the issue with ethanol absorbing more water than straight gas is that the gas/oil mix goes through the crankcase and is partially used to provide lubrication for the crank/bearings etc. Bearing don't like water and when engines run a bit hot, water turns into steam and maybe removes that thin film of oil lubricant on the bearings, rings, etc. Just a guess, but there's not too many engines that like having water pushed through the lower end. Some aircraft engines and others used water injection, but that was for cooling and went throught the upper end of the motor.

[Lostchild]

This site has some test result on two strokes running ethanol/gas ... http://www.ilcorn.org/Ethanol/Ethan_Studie...ll_engines.html

[bigfish1965]

The manual with my new Merc says it can take 10% blend. Don't know what or why the difference is from older motors.

[kennyman]

Only thing I might recommend if your worried is increasing the mixture to compensate. Ethanol is very dry. Race cars that run it use a product called top lube to help lube the valves etc.Also, I don't think you'll notice much difference in the water content in your oil. At 10% at normal operating temps it'll burn off pretty quickly. Now,at 100% it can turn the oil into a milky mess in a hurry. Ethanol burns cooler as well,so if you had any heating issues it may actually help (at 10% I doubt it'll have a huge effect either way). P.S. The current requirement is 3-10% of ethanol (pretty wide variance if you ask me). The content has to be a minimun 5% after Jan 1 2012 . I think they should have made it 5% by 2010 and 10% by 2012. You know politicians though. Instant emission improvements are staring them right in the face .

Edited May 1, 2007 by kennyman

[Terry]

water is the enemy..if there is no water in your tank/gas, there is no problem with it

and the older the motor the more the problem

if you are really worried remove a few litres and add supreme to lower the % of ethenal

[boatman]

You don't need supreme. Unless your motor calls for it it really doesn't want it. Run your machine at 87 or 89 octane and treat with fuel statbiliser. Aside from ethanol's affinity to draw water from the atmosphere and from the gasoliine itself, it also degrades rubber parts and may separate from the gas. You don't want to run straight alcohol in your motor any more than you want to run water through it. Using fuel stabiliser will help keep the alcohol and gas in solution and help avoid problems. 10% or less ethanol should not damage your motor. If you've bought gas at Pioneer, Sunoco or Husky in the past then you've already put 10% blend through your engine.

[easton13th]

I will have to keep updated on this subject. I too use gas enhanced with Ethanol! I was unaware of any hazards to that effect.

Great post I will have to research more educate myself, also follow this thread regarding more info..I will post any info I can find out to help.

 

Easton

[Andy]

Mercury site re; ethanol. Andy

 

http://northamerica.mercurymarine.com/serv...aqs/ethanol.php

[Tacklebuster]

thanks for the link Andy, its quite informative

[Daplumma]

Bernie..What do you think???

Joe

[Kerry]

I've been using sunoco which can be mixed up to 10% with ethanol for at least three years in both my boat and sled,both are two strokes,and haven't had any problems.I usually use gas line antifreeze(isopropol alcohol) as a matter of course for an additive to combat water.I would suggest you stick with a good brand of oil for best lubrication and you shouldn't have any problems.Some oils are for air cooled and others are for liquid cooled and that's where you can have a problem as they do have different properties.

Kerry

[Sinker]

Yup, use the oil your engine manufacturer reccomends. At least then if there is any problems, its not from not using proper oil.

[motv8tr]

Hmmm...should I worry about my brand new Lawnmower? didn't see anything in the owners manual but you can bet I'll be taking a second look. What about my chainsaw? for the cost I could switch to suprememe in that, or does the fact that it's mixed gas make a difference?

 

Maureen

[LeXXington]

Not too add more muck to this post but some engine's should not use the super octain as it increases the RPM at full tilt that could also cause issues.

 

Another issue about the Ethanol is it deteriates some of the rubber in older hoses, so they need replaceing more.. this only really affect old equipment.

[Dave2]

My STIHL saw shop told me never to used regual gas with ethanol. Use a mid range or premium gasoine.

[davis]

I called Merc Canada this afternoon - they directed me back to the link that was posted by Andy. As I understand it from them, the two concerns are water in the gas tank/line (because ethanol has an attraction for water) and ethanol's affect on rubber in older hoses as per LeXXington's post.

 

She recommended being diligent in ensuring you minimize the opportunity for water to gather in the tank (i.e. keep it full, use stabilizer, water-seperating fuel filter, etc...) and to inspect gas lines/hoses for wear and deterioration often.

 

So pretty much everything that boatman has already said!!