tonyb Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) During the home inspection on a home that my wife and I have put an offer in on, the guy found a small amount of vermiculite insulation in the attic (A handful or 2, the rest is fiberglass batting insulation). For those who don't know, vermiculite insulation is assumed to be contaminated with asbestos, although it may not contain it. His advice was since it is such a small amount (that he could see) to remove it (with proper removal techniques) Now, since our offer is conditional on home inspection, should we walk? Everything I read on contaminated vermiculite insulation is that it is best to leave it alone, and not go into the attic at all. I'm now paranoid about having ANY asbestos in the house at all... Has anyone else been in this position? Should I have the seller pay to remove it professionaly or adjust our offer to consider a removal operation. I understand this can run up to $10,000.00 a home for professional removal. Health is the most important thing we have... Help! Tony Edited April 25, 2007 by tonyb
Headhunter Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 If the garage will hold your boat and you love the house, either get the vendor to clean it up, or lower your offer and do it yourself. But make sure the boat fits first! HH
Joey Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 Hmmm, that's interesting. There is vermicullite insulation in the rental home we are moving out of this weekend. I did not know it had asbestos in it. All I know is that it is a pain in the *bleep* because it leaks through cracks and openings all the time and is a pain to clean up. Yet one more reason I'm glad I'm leaving. I would ask the seller to adjust the price to reflect the clean up and removal and replacement insulation if I were you Tony. Joey
irishfield Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 How old is the house. Find it very odd that there is a couple handfulls of old vermiculite and the rest is batts....and that your inspection guy actually found the handfulls. Did he lift the batts to see if it covered a whole attic of the stuff? And for what is' worth...our attic of the house I grew up in had the loose vermiculite insulation with boards over it and I played in the attic all the time...and I turned out just fine ..and what HH said. Make it conditional that the vendor cleans it up.
easton13th Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 Have it removed and lower the offer price.! A small amount. Not to worry. I guess in the long run your piece of mind comes into play. If you can live with the removal so be it, if in the back of your mind it will always be there shop around!
dustink Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 I would make the current owner remove it, and have it pass another inspection. If they won't pay for it, then the price should come down to cover your costs to do it. dk
tonyb Posted April 25, 2007 Author Report Posted April 25, 2007 Interestingly enough, the only place that there was any of it that he could see was right at the hatch to go into the attic. It wasn't present underneath the batting... Not all vermiculite is contaminated, the only way to know is if there is an old bag that it came in Zonolite is the brand that is definately contaminated, the rest requires a test to prove if it has asbestos fibres or not in it. Not sure if 'fine' is an appropriate term for how you turned out Wayne Keep the input coming... Tony
steve_paul Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 tony, i will PM you the name of an asbestos abatement company we have recommended in the past to some of our customers who needed asbestos removed from their boilers and pipes before we did our work. for what it is worth, the last time we recommended them, they charged the customer around 1500 for removing a basement full of asbestos so hopefully a couple of handfuls won't be 2 bad. agree 2 with Dustin, put it back on the sellers to remove it properly or help with the cost of such. since they now know it, they have to disclose it to any future buyers so they may just want to get it done with now rather than keeping the house on the market.
Terry Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 arrange with the current owners, so you can have a contractor come in and give you a price on removing it and it needs to be a asbestos abatement company not handy dandy joe handy man doing it..then you know where you stand....might be an idea to ask your ins. company if there is any issue, but that could come back to bite you in the donkey
Dutch Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 Removal costs big, big dollars from what I have heard. As Terry suggests, get an estimate for removal and adjust the offer as appropriate.
muskymatt Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 Asbestos can be either harmless or deadly...or anywhere in between. There are different levels and different clean up depending on which grade you have Do some googeling or check this out. http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Asbest...amp;oi=scholart Matt
tonyb Posted April 25, 2007 Author Report Posted April 25, 2007 Well call me paranoid and a fool, but we are going to have the vermiculite tested for asbestos. We talked to a firm that can obtain a sample and provide results in 24 hours (at a premium price of course ) but it is worth every penny for the piece of mind. If the vermiculite tests negative for asbestos, a sold sign is going up on the property. If it tests positive for asbestos, we will have to negotiate with the vendor to reduce the asking price by cost for removal (3 quotes, mid priced quote). I think that is reasonable, as I would HOPE that they wouldn't reject our offer and try to cover up the positive asbestos contamination for the next buyer (is that even legal?). It's a buyer beware world folks Thanks for your input guys! Tony
Terry Posted April 25, 2007 Report Posted April 25, 2007 once they know any problem with the building they are obligated to disclose all details to all buyer
ranger79com Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 I worked for an environmental firm for the past 6 years and am currently awaiting my paperwork to be able to do the same in Ontario. Where are you located? I could give you the names of a couple of consultant firms if you would like and get you some answers.
Jen Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 I have completed many house inspections where the home inspector has suggested testing on either plumbing coverings or insulation that may contain asbestos, in all of those circumstances I advised my clients to have the suspect materials tested. The sellers usually have no problem with doing this. Have your agent extend the condition on house inspection on an amendment to cover the amount of time this will take and add a clause that states what your expectations are. A lab at McMaster recently did testing for a seller when my buyer requested that the plaster covering the radiator pipes be tested. The results for asbestos were negative and the deal went through. It is all about piece of mind and due diligence. Since you are in Burlington Tony, it might be an option to have the test done at McMaster, if you want the information on who to contact I have all the paperwork at my office and can look it up. PM me if you would like. Cheers Jen On a side note, if you love the property, then I am sure your agent can work something out with the sellers if there are health issues. These sorts of things are pretty standard findings when it comes to home inspections. Better to be safe.
tonyb Posted April 26, 2007 Author Report Posted April 26, 2007 Hey Jen, Funny that you mention McMaster for the testing...the company will be sending the sample to the lab at McMaster. We will know the results late today or early tomorrow morning. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Tony
Jen Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 Hope it turns out to be just the regular variety of vermiculite and you can happily go ahead with the purchase of the house you found. Will look for your post. Cheers Jen
tonyb Posted April 26, 2007 Author Report Posted April 26, 2007 TEST RESULTS ARE IN: NO ASBESTOS!!! What a relief!, we can now lift conditions and finalize the deal. Tony
douG Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 I love happy endings. Congratulations on your new home, Tony.
Jen Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 I am betting everyone at your place did a little happy dance. Congrats... nothing like removing the conditions that have kept you up all night wondering and knowing that you have a date with a new home very soon! Enjoy Jen
Headhunter Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 Congrats Tony! I know what your going through! My house just went on the market on Tuesday and it has been crazy around here! People everywhere... no I'm not complaining! Now the real important question that hasn't been answered... does the boat fit in the garage?! HH
tonyb Posted April 26, 2007 Author Report Posted April 26, 2007 HH, there is no garage on this property. However, the lot size is 50x120 and according to our calculations we conform to the zoning restrictions for the city of Burlington to be able to build a large enough garage (~15x30) for the new boat. The driveway actually extends along the side of the house all the way to the back of the house (with a gate at the front of the house) This will allow me to back the boat all the way into the backyard where we plan on building the garage. We have had a title search for easements and restrictions that came back clean, so we are on our way. Also most of the neighbourhood houses have the garage built in the back so that's also a good sign of evidence that we can build, on top of our zoning research for the city permit. After moving in, we will have an architect handle the drawings on the survey to submit to the city for a permit, then the construction begins! The plan is to build the garage and trade my car in for a truck this summer. Then pay off the difference of the cost of the truck on top of the trade in by next spring prior to ordering the Lund. By then we will be debt free with the truck and garage built and paid off before entering the Lund mortgage. Planning goes a long way in all of this and it's stressful but it's steps towards one of my life goals of owning a kick-ass fishing boat Tony
motv8tr Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 Excellent news on all counts Tony, congrats to you and the missus.... Maureen
steve_paul Posted April 26, 2007 Report Posted April 26, 2007 Congrats Tony, glad the news was good. Enjoy the new house.
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