Mortality Tolerance

[jerdog]

I've been reading the walleye tournament story with great interest on this forum and another. I'm not trying to stir up that argument/discussion any further but am curious about the public tolerance regarding fish mortality, specifically at tournaments. Full disclosure: I'm not anti-tournament, quite the opposite, however I've never participated in one. I have zero problems with killing fish within the laws, I've certainly killed my fair share. This poll is not affiliated with any organization, agency or institution. I'm just genuinely interested in what the level of tolerance the general angling public has for mortality at organized events. I'm ok with catch and kill derbies too but for the sake of this question let's assume this is advertised as a 100% catch and release tournament.

 

Fish mortality is a fact of fishing. Even the most responsible angler (tournament angler or otherwise) will loose the occasional fish due to a deep hook set or long fight, many won't even be aware that it happened. Anglers and tournament organizers, in my experience, try their best to minimize the mortality rate however some fish will die and certain conditions (like weather) may affect the mortality rate.

 

For the sake of argument - consider an event that has 50 participants and can weigh in 5 fish for a maximum weigh in of 250 fish. At what point would you consider the catch and release tournament to be still within an acceptable mortality level?

5% = 12

10% = 25

15% = 37

25% = 62...

 

Thanks for playing along.

 

JB

[Terry]

well I think 15% is about the rate

50 guys and they kill less then 1 fish each

 

I am sure there were 10 other boats on the water with 4 guys in each boat will limits of bass hanging over the side of the boat

who is harder on the lake

 

as long as they don't do it OOS and video it

[Fisherman]

I think you're going to have a hiccup in your quest. The problem presents itself that going by your numbers of 50 anglers and a 5 fish weigh in, may well increase beyond the 250 fish that finally get returned to the water. Of all the fish that are culled, how do we know which live or die beyond the final amount. It could eventually blossom into a disaster. Maybe all 250 will die in addition to those culled. Some catch to eat, others catch to brag. I bet that will stir the pot right off the stove.

[chris.brock]

sort of on topic about live release mortality- this relates to a walleye (I know most tourneys are bass)

 

last year I had a walleye on the stringer (I know that's a debate in itself), time to head back, 10 minute boat ride, 10 minute portage and another 10 minute boat ride, the fish was out of the water for at least 30 minutes, I hung the stringer off the dock while I got ready to clean it, another 30 minutes, I went to retrieve the fish and it was alive and feisty, we had plenty of food in the fridge and I had already had a few beers and didn't feel like filleting so I let it go

Edited June 20, 2012 by chris.brock

[jedimaster]

0% is acceptable in any live release tournament as far as I am concerned. Thats the whole point of a live release tournament. Certainly thats the whole point of the series I fish in... the BBT Series. That is why the penalties for dead fish are so strict. Basically if you have a dead fish its almost impossible to finish in the money. Are there dead fish? Yes of course, we usually get a small handful each year. But with about 25 boats in the field with most boats limiting to 5 every tournament, I would say we average less than 1 per tournament. Many times in the last 2 or 3 years I have been involved we have had none. When there is a dead or questionable fish it is never a happy sight.

 

Tournaments can do alot to help that by having the weigh in station setup early. Be prepared. At the very least weigh in the fish in the water if possible. Warn people on hot days before blast off, or on smallie lakes. Boaters have a responsiblilty as well, to bring ice blocks on Hot days, keep there boats in good condition so they can run there live wells sufficiently, recyle water in the deepr areas of the lake instead of the shallows to pick up colder water. As fisherman we ALL know the Air temps, barometer, water depth, water temps etc.... Its not like we are random fishermen and its our first time on the water.

 

I am not at all saying it never happens or never should happen, but it is very rare. A deep hook, or deep caught fish etc... but there are things we can do in the boat. I think last year we had 4 dead fish all season off the top of my head. Over 6 tournament days (one two day) Thats about 750 fish for 25 boats. Thats a .0053% mortality rate.

 

Now if I think about it in terms of your poll numbers at 10% thats 12.5 fish per tournament? No WAY. Not a chance in hell would that be acceptable on any lakes we fish on. The cottage associations would kick us off the lakes and we would never be allowed to fish.

 

Last year my partner and I were in a tournament (not the BBT Series but another one) and at about 8:30am I caught a nice 3.5 pound smallmouth. It was 32 that day if I recall. A real scortcher on the water. We both looked at eachother and said oh man here we go we need to keep an eye on this one. We went straight to shore to look for a tournament official to ask if we could weigh it in right away. They weren't setup so we bought ice and off we went. Keeping a close eye on it all day until later on when we were able to weigh it in. It was really hot that day and without the ice it would have been belly up for sure.

 

Tournament anglers know how to keep fish alive. If they don't they should be scolded by the officials and taught about it. If you are a tournament fisherman you have an obligation to do everything in your power to keep those fish alive.

 

JMHO

[glen]

There is a problem with comparing tournaments to anyone else. Tournaments have fish in a livewell for a while before it is let go.

[glen]

What is a dead fish?

Any fish that you see swim away is ok.

[mike rousseau]

I say zero dead fish at the scales... After that... If they swim away... Assume they're ok...what else can you do?

 

I have a live well that isn't equipped with a recirculate pump...only an aerator/fill pump and I don't have issues keeping walleye alive for 8+ hours... So I say there's no excuse for weighing in dead fish... They shouldn't be allowed in a tournament...

[Garnet]

My goal is zero.

 

In 30 years of tournament fishing I've taken 5-6 dead fish penalty's. I'm very aggressive with my live wells. And carry various Please Release Me, salt ect.

 

They all piss me off but 1 on lake simcoe would have been big fish. Hooked just on lip landed quickly in the live well and rolled instantly never even tried just rolled. 1 lb penalty.

[jerdog]

To Fisherman and Glen's point re: culling - let's call that a wash as it's legal for non-tournament anglers to cull also (certain species at least). It's the transport, weigh-in, post weigh-in holding, and release that is the 'unique' part of tournaments compared to rec fishing. The other 'unique' aspect is that fish being weighed in are typically the largest specimens in the population - higher average size at least than what is captured/retained by the average/below average angler.

[jedimaster]

What is a dead fish?

Any fish that you see swim away is ok.

 

Its something that is had to determine, and unfortunatly it is actualy up for debate amongst people. In the Regulations, a fish that counts towards your limit is a fish that is unlikely to survive. EG a CO see's you land a musky flop around in your boat for 5 minutes while you take hooks out and take pictures. He actually reserves the right to have that fish count towards your limit.

 

In our series, and I stress our series as all are different. The weighmaster for the tournament determines if a fish is likely to survive. This is then voted on by council by majority vote, and if it is deamed not likely to survive, its a dead fish. It is then not supposed to hit the lake and it goes home with someone. We did have an incident where a fish was half dead half alive, and it was very upsetting for everyone. In the end it was pulled from the lake, and was deemed dead and a penalty was assessed. Some were upset but everyone in the end saw the point. The point is we care about our resources and we want all the fish caught to be released alive. Its a tough pill to swallow sometimes, especially when money is on the line. However we really have no choice when it comes to the resources we cherish most. If the wrong cottager sees something they don't like we can have a very difficult time getting back on that lake the following year.

 

I understand that walleye have a harder time but I honestly believe that questionable fish should never hit the water. It just looks bad for everyone.

 

I dare anyone to find ANY tournament angler and hear them say they don't care if there fish are alive and healthy when they hit the scale. Not a single one I have ever talked to wants a dead fish. If someone has a questionable fish they are allowed to jump the line and get to work on that fish asap.

[Garnet]

If we can get our fish to the live release boat in good shape it's close to 100% live release.

 

That's why the angler's are responsible and take the penalty.

 

If we present the live release boat with stressed fish it's 50/50. And the live release boat wrongly gets the blame.

 

The worst case I seen was 12-14 years ago, it was a spring tournament and we had to go a long way up a slow moving creek. For 12 days before the tournament it was 85-90 and this creek was the same. I brought a cooler full of Ice and my fish were weight healthy.

 

 

It was a large tournament and a bad situation all around. Ever body learned that day.