Ganaraska fishway

[BillM]

To Sinker's point over harvest will consistently trump natural reproduction. That's why, in places where natural reproduction is the management technique, minimal limits, retention of stockers only, slot sizes, roe bans, bait bans, gear restrictions and outright ban on harvest is the norm for virtually every jurisdiction where Steelhead and Salmon are found...except Ontario. Habitat is most definitely NOT the key, it is far from simple and this does apply to any species that people like to eat(or use their spawn for bait). You are correct on one point, stocking will NEVER END in an urban fishery where there's 4 million potential anglers that need homes, industry, waste disposal etc. It's a reality fundamental to an abundant fishery.

 

Explain to us why the Notty's steelhead run has been getting stronger and stronger over the past few years. No stocking, 100% wild self sustaining population of fish, no roe ban, no bait bans, no gear restrictions..

 

The only thing that has been done is HABITAT IMPROVEMENT and a No kill zone from Nicholston to Angus (This isn't spawning water either)

 

I'm eagerly awaiting your response.

Edited March 25, 2012 by BillM

[tb4me]

bla bla bla guys..start a new thread to talk about this..This thread was and I repeat WAS about the Ganny Fishway..Looking for an update takes 5 min of sorting thru the balbber in here now.

[MJL]

Explain to us why the Notty's steelhead run has been getting stronger and stronger over the past few years. No stocking, 100% wild self sustaining population of fish, no roe ban, no bait bans, no gear restrictions..

 

 

But there are no fish in the Notty

 

bla bla bla guys..start a new thread to talk about this..This thread was and I repeat WAS about the Ganny Fishway..Looking for an update takes 5 min of sorting thru the balbber in here now.

 

Definitely not the mass exodus of fish yesterday at the dam that we saw a few days prior...Just enough to take a few shots

 

 

 

[Snidley]

There's tons of stocking on Lake Huron and Georgian Bay. What do you think the clubs are doing with the Derby $$$. Trout are notorious wanderers in case you did not know and stocked fish repopulate all over the system including into and out of America. In addition there's been a reduced bag limit on Georgian Bay for a lot longer than on Lake O tribs. The no kill zone might also have an impact. Finally what is the population of Wasaga. Does that qualify as an urban fishery to you?

 

 

Hard to fathom how anyone can't appreciate how over harvest of edible animals can outstrip the natural environment's ability to replenish the lost stocks of biomass unless enhanced/influenced by man through human migration, animal husbandry or conservation. It is essentially the story of mankind after all. Maybe you missed that decade at school.

 

Still waiting?

Edited March 25, 2012 by Snidley

[BillM]

There's tons of stocking on Lake Huron and Georgian Bay. What do you think the clubs are doing with the Derby $$$. Trout are notorious wanderers in case you did not know and stocked fish repopulate all over the system including into and out of America. In addition there's been a reduced bag limit on Georgian Bay for a lot longer than on Lake O tribs. The no kill zone might also have an impact. Finally what is the population of Wasaga. Does that qualify as an urban fishery to you?

 

 

Hard to fathom how anyone can't appreciate how over harvest of edible animals can outstrip the natural environment's ability to replenish the lost stocks of biomass unless enhanced by man through human migration, animal husbandry or conservation. It is essentially the story of mankind after all. Maybe you missed that decade at school.

 

Still waiting?

 

Ah so now the Notty is nothing more then a river fill of stocked wanderers? lol! Of course the no kill zone has an impact, that's exactly my point. That a long with stream rehab has done wonders for that river.

 

But according to you, that's impossible.. Habitat couldn't possibly play such an important role for the wild population of steelhead in that river.

 

At least your replies are good for a laugh, and for that I thank you!

Edited March 25, 2012 by BillM

[bill S]

the notty is lucky to have the amount of prime spawning/reproduction areas like the upper pine, boyne and notty near hockley which all are prime coldwater streams... the credit would be similar if fish had access to the upper areas too... heckk even the humber could have a natural sustaining run of steelhead but is in basically the same story of the credit for protected naturalized species..

[misfish]

the notty is lucky to have the amount of prime spawning/reproduction areas like the upper pine, boyne and notty near hockley which all are prime coldwater streams... the credit would be similar if fish had access to the upper areas too... heckk even the humber could have a natural sustaining run of steelhead but is in basically the same story of the credit for protected naturalized species..

 

It would be nice to see them shut down Bear creek from the dam to the Notty. It,s just a slaughter.Fish dont stand a chance.

There was a comment about they dont spawn in the Notty (Bill,shame on you)LOL The stretch from ivy up to the bridge,has some great spawning grounds,and I have seem them paired up and spawning.

 

Lots of talk about wasting fish for roe. I have to say,what about the waste of roe to keep the fish from the charters. Like Mike said,he goes there to get his roe,and I know alot of roe is wasted in the trash.

 

I have a question and I have no idea. Can the roe from late season fish that is wasted,can it be scraped and used for the hatchery?

 

But there are no fish in the Notty

 

TY

 

Nice photos.

[BillM]

It would be nice to see them shut down Bear creek from the dam to the Notty. It,s just a slaughter.Fish dont stand a chance.

There was a comment about they dont spawn in the Notty (Bill,shame on you)LOL The stretch from ivy up to the bridge,has some great spawning grounds,and I have seem them paired up and spawning.

 

 

I wouldn't really call that great spawning water, more like shallow spots in between pools, lol! I would guess 99% of the fish in that river spawn in the Boyne, Pine and the upper river in Hockley (or further)

 

They should also make the Pine south of the base No Kill as well. The slaughter that goes on there in the fall before the close is horrible.

[bill S]

do rainbows make it up to the pine before the close or are just talking salmon?

[misfish]

Can anyone answer this question? I think IMO it can be done. Just asking.

 

Thanks

 

I have a question and I have no idea. Can the roe from late season fish that is wasted,can it be scraped and used for the hatchery?

[BillM]

I don't think so, I think the hatchery needs fresh from the fish loose roe in order to make little fish babies with, lol Scrape is immature.

[Snidley]

I love when bait anglers talk about retention. When they kill fish for roe or meat it's a harvest, when anyone outside their circle kills a fish its' a slaughter. When that drippy Brown trout makes the bad decision to get caught on your hook what is it boys, conservation minded harvest or slaughter? Trollers are just as bad especially with Salmon for "the DERBY". To them stream guys are snaggers wasting the fish for bait while the trollers purpose is noble, ie to get some cash and notoriety among their peers. Then chuck the carcass, or worse, feed it to some rubes that will eat it on the say so of "expert" fishermen that it's safe if you cut off the belly. Then there are the hoards that weigh in 15-25lb fish when the leader board was 32lb before they even left harbour that morning. I even remember seeing some "Pro" angler with a TV show suggest since Chinnooks are toxic that a great use for them would be to feed the carcasses to the bears at the zoo. Now that's conservation minded

 

I suppose on a cosmic basis it's funny and will amount to nothing in the long run but it sure is irritating in the mean time.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Snidley

[misfish]

Maybe, I,ll just pm my question.

[BillM]

I love when bait anglers talk about retention. When they kill fish for roe or meat it's a harvest, when anyone outside their circle kills a fish its' a slaughter. When that drippy Brown trout makes the bad decision to get caught on your hook what is it boys, conservation minded harvest or slaughter?

 

I know it might be a surprise to you, but a lot of us 'bait' anglers take stocked fish from other systems in order to tie up our death bags. Does that make you feel better?

 

Keep those assumptions coming :rofl2:

[danbouck]

Wow

[solopaddler]

Don't want to open a can of worms here, but the biggest issue is the multiple limits of 5 fish that the charter guys keep in the summer on a regular basis.

 

The short sightedness of our MNR never ceases to amaze me.

 

 

I started this back on page one, who knew?

 

 

The bottom line is this, although some of us have very different agendas we're all passionate anglers and all of this in fighting serves absolutely no purpose.

[Richard S.]

Can anyone answer this question? I think IMO it can be done. Just asking.

 

Thanks

 

I can answer your question for you, roe if it is still skeen cannot be used because it is still immature and not ready. On the other hand loose roe once it leaves the female and touches water it has only a short period of time to be firtelized before it becomes useless.

 

 

Rich.

[Snidley]

It was supposed to be 2 in the lake as well then at the very last minute it was changed to the current compromise of 2 in the river and 5 in the lake. Wonder if the "Derby" or OFAH or both had anything to do with it? But before stream anglers get cocky one of the other curiosities of our current regulations is that by Federal statute roe retained is in fact the same as fish retained. It's part of the fish after all, no different really than fins or fillets, and Federal law says it's all part of your limit. This came to me in an email from the head of enforcement from the MNR BUT when push comes to shove it is NEVER enforced. The reasons are twofold. One, it's a Federal Statute and the province chooses not to enforce it for the Feds, in Ontario. I suspect in other jurisdictions it's different but then roe fishing is not permitted elsewhere in Canada. The second reason conveniently dovetails with the compromise (or should that be compromising?) for fish retention as it sits in Ontario. The MNR feels it would be impossible (unwilling?)to prove whether the roe came from Ontario streams, 2 fish limit, or from the Ontario side of the lake, 5 fish limit, or from the local baitshop, or grocery store, or US streams, or US lake (the flyboys in NY, Penn., Ohio love it when Ontatio anglers come down on brown egg runs don't they). Like many things you should be carefull what you wish for since it might come back to bite you in the butt. Not that Ontario anglers need worry that a roe ban is on any sort of horizon around here. Virtually everyone is married to it and even when the MNR knows that over harvest for bait is rife particularly in the GTA they choose to bury the study rather than face the wrath of the angler community.

[tonka-toy]

I know it might be a surprise to you, but a lot of us 'bait' anglers take stocked fish from other systems in order to tie up our death bags. Does that make you feel better?

 

Keep those assumptions coming :rofl2:

unfortunatly a lot of 'bait' anglers are taking spawners (in many cases not fit for the table)out of the system solely for roe. A bait ban would be a positive step. Bumper runs like this year are perhaps the result of early runs four year previous (when harvest was limited and redds left unmolested)

[Richard S.]

unfortunatly a lot of 'bait' anglers are taking spawners (in many cases not fit for the table)out of the system solely for roe. A bait ban would be a positive step. Bumper runs like this year are perhaps the result of early runs four year previous (when harvest was limited and redds left unmolested)

 

These runs are a result of some cool/wet summers where yoy and parr's flurished.

 

Rich.

[aniceguy]

ouch painful read

 

Brian once out of the fish it has to be fertilized within a few minutes, after that the membrane hardens and is no longer viable

 

Paul ( snidley ) what ever your name is......we get it you hate organic/ bait anglers, you hate craa ofah the mnr and everyone in between.

You eat dandlions and drink soy milk from sustainable organic farms, while looking down the glasses at us carnivore's. You eat nothing with a face or heart, we totally get it your the OFC representation for P3TA.....we totally get it. You like to post information that in many cases is false or speculative at best, we get that too.

 

You dont like to do any form or conservation work, yet love to use the resource as much as you can, we get that too....and boy do you like to spount your anti everything agenda on the internet while getting banned off forums ...we get that too.

WE GET YOUR POINT...we really really get it. Thank you for speaking up did I say we hear your message

 

Harvesting fish from a sustainable fishery is a great source of food and comfort, we get you love soy milk and are a macro vegan, because if your not what a complete hypocrite but hey we get it maybe its pot stirring or simply too much pot, of course organically grown with no animal testing involved...

Harvesting fish to eat and use thier eggs as bait is legal, an accepted practice and while in certain cases not right due to the fragiity of a fishery its still within someones right, we get that too....

please go away, I think we all get that message too

Edited March 26, 2012 by aniceguy

[chessy]

These runs are a result of some cool/wet summers where yoy and parr's flurished.

 

Rich.

 

you are 100 percent correct and this run has been predicted now for the last 3 and 4 years ago when we had the wet summers

[John Bacon]

ouch painful read

Brian once out of the fish it has to be fertilized within a few minutes, after that the membrane hardens and is no longer viable

 

That is true if they get wet. If they are kept cool and dry then you have more time. When MEA collects eggs they are fertilized several hours later at the hatchery. We only harvest loose eggs from "ripe" females.

 

I doubt that immature eggs would work. I don't have actual data to back that up; but my expectation is that are simply not ready to be fertilized.

[Snidley]

Louis I get it too. The only thing I don't eat is cows and pigs out of concern for my personal health. You on the other hand eat everything, way too much of everything I believe. By the way Louis by the sound of your earlier post it looks like you and CRAA are preparing the ground for some backtracking on Atlantics. Oh well it wasn't your money. By the way if guys feel the need for it and they don't mind the mess worms, grubs, minnows, cut bait are all a-ok by me. Just not spawn since I would like to see all this conservation work pay off before the egg collectors determine that one early run means local tribs are ship shape and 2 a trip hens becomes SOP.

[tonka-toy]

These runs are a result of some cool/wet summers where yoy and parr's flurished.

 

Rich.

Agree,and this year as four years ago less harvest will occur due to the large number of fish that will be done and back to the lake before the open season.More eggs laid plus a cool/wet summer,if we are lucky,should make us happy in another four years.