bushart Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have been purposely avoiding "Any" political talks as they usually go wide And man---there's been lots But the latest touches on Fisheries and the Environment And correct me if I'm wrong---but is this not why we're here? I'm just more than a lttle Po'd on the roughshod ride that's going on---and just a bit ticked to type You decide??...From Today's Vancouver Sun.. OTTAWA - The Harper government did not challenge Tuesday opposition allegations that it is poised to “gut” legislation that has been a key tool for decades in forcing industrial and natural resource projects to go through environmental reviews. “There has been absolutely no decision made with regard to this issue,” Fisheries Minister Keith Ashfield told the House of Commons when confronted with the allegations of a former federal fisheries biologist. Ashfield’s office later released a statement reiterating that no decision has been made but that changes are needed. “Federal fisheries policies designed to protect fish are outdated and unfocused in terms of balancing environmental and economic realities.” Former bureaucrat Otto Langer made public Monday proposed wording changes in the federal Fisheries Act that he said would make it easier for projects like Calgary-based Enbridge Inc.’s Northern Gateway pipeline to B.C. to clear federal hurdles. Langer, who worked for the federal government for 32 years, said he was told the change would be included in upcoming federal omnibus legislation following the March 29 budget. The changes would prohibit activity that would cause an “adverse effect” on “fish of economic, cultural or ecological value.” The law currently bans activity that results in the harmful alteration, disruption or destruction of fish habitat. The New Democratic Party leaped on the issue, accusing the government of engineering a major reversal in environmental policy. “The Conservative government is systematically dismantling environmental protection and regulation,” NDP fisheries critic Fin Donnelly said. “By eliminating provisions to protect fish habitat, they can push through their agenda of pipelines, oil super tankers, mega-mines and other projects that harm the environment.” In question period, Donnelly asked if the government had a plan to “gut” the legislation, prompting Ashfield’s response that a decision on amending the act hadn’t been made. “I will note that Canada is blessed with an abundant array of natural resources of which we should be proud and which we take seriously and responsibly to conserve and protect,” Ashfield added. The new wording leaked to Langer includes numerous exemptions to give the minister “or a person prescribed by the regulations” the authority to permit activities that would have an “adverse effect” on fish considered of value. The changes, if enacted, would result in the total rewriting of the legislation to remove habitat protection provisions that have been in place since 1976, said Langer, who worked for the David Suzuki Foundation after leaving the federal government but is now retired. Langer pointed out that the Enbridge pipeline would cross hundreds of rivers and streams, so looser federal legislation would be a major break for the Calgary company. Langer said the “subjective and ambiguous” new wording would make the law extremely difficult to enforce. “For instance, what is a fish of economic, cultural or ecological value?” he asked. An intense behind-the-scenes lobbying battle has been waged over the Fisheries Act’s habitat provisions, especially in Alberta and B.C. More than three dozen industry and environmental groups registered as lobbyists in Ottawa have raised concerns about the issue, according to the lobbyist registry. “Some of the largest and most complex natural resource and industrial development projects across the country are affected by Fisheries Act requirements, which are consistently identified as one of the top federal regulatory irritants by stakeholders across the country,” says a 2011 briefing note prepared for Ashfield. The briefing note, obtained by Postmedia News through the Access to Information Act, said the legislation’s habitat protection provisions are “one of the most frequent triggers” of federal assessments under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. An assessment act review “can occur for a project of any size, and across many sectors of the economy,” such as construction, urban development, agriculture, nature resource development. The briefing note said there’s a “strong contingent” of environmental groups advocating in favour of protecting fish habitat, while industry groups are advocating their own economic interests. “As minister you will be required to manage these often competing interests in order to balance protection of fish and fish habitat resources with other social, environmental and economic objectives of importance.” Among the corporate lobbyists raising concerns about the Fisheries Act are the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, the Business Council of B.C., the Canadian Electricity Association, the Canadian Hydropower Association, EnCana Corp., Teck Resources Ltd., The Mining Association of Canada, the Canadian Energy Pipeline Association, the Council of Forest Industries, and the Saskatchewan Power Corp. Environmentalist and social activist groups include the David Suzuki Foundation, Ecojustice Canada, the World Wildlife Fund Canada, MiningWatch Canada, the Pembina Institute, and Environmental Defence Canada. Former auditor general Sheila Fraser, in a 2009 report, said protecting fish habitat is important “not only for fish, but also for human health and recreational use. Healthy habitat—places where fish can spawn, feed, grow, and live—is a fundamental requirement for sustaining fish, providing food and shelter for aquatic and terrestrial wildlife, and contributing to water quality for human consumption and other uses.” A senior official with the Council of Forest Industries, one of the industry associations which has lobbied on the Fisheries Act, refused to say whether the current wording is an irritant. “There’s no question in our mind that many pieces of legislation, including the fisheries legislation, could be made more efficient from an administrative point of view, and therefore lower our operating costs and improve our competitiveness without compromising the conservation goals and objectives of the legislation,” said Doug Routledge, the organization’s vice-president of forestry. (With files from Mike De Souza, Postmedia News) Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Canada+poised+roll+back+fish+protection+laws+biologist+claims/6295564/story.html#ixzz1p2SOnLAm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) This is bad for that area and Canada as a whole...Wait till they force the pipeline in..Soon will be sloppin oil all over the west coast....Brutal I posted a link to this about a month ago and to my suprise not a single reply in regard to this from anyone on here...I dont think an of the natives are going to allow it to happen any way..Im with them on this issue Edited March 13, 2012 by tb4me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 We are treading very dangerous water with this bill... G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeytier Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 God Bless Canada... But all kidding aside, the writing was on the wall long ago. All they needed is a majority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted March 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 This stuff is makin me sick guys According to a Calgary paper a while ago they reported that---a non profit group called "Forest ethics" spoke up against the pipeline---one guy had to be fired because the gov't threatened to yank it's charitable status. It seems--this ultra capitalistic greed agenda---if you question the plan---your an enemy to Canada. I'm starting to not recognize the place anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 A group called leadnow.ca has a campain against this movement..click on the link to do your part folks...chirpin on here doesnt help all that much... http://leadnow.ca/canadas-interests Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Also here is all the information needed to educate yourselves if you so choose Sources: 1.Harper warns pipeline hearings could be “hijacked” http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/01/06/harper-northern-gateway-hearings.html 2.An Open Letter from Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/an-open-letter-from-natural-resources-minister-joe-oliver/article2295599/ 3.Harper says pipeline debate should be left to Canadians http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/01/16/pol-harper-mansbridge-interview.html 4.Opposition to oil tankers on the rise http://forestethics.org/opposition-to-bc-oil-tankers-on-the-rise- 5.Save the Fraser Declaration http://savethefraser.ca 6.Pipeline project a gateway to disaster "http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Pipeline-project-gateway-disaster/5988821/story.html 7.Canadian jobs lost to the tar sands http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/matt-price/canadian-oilb1180255.html 8.Oil sands should be left in the ground: NASA scientist http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/oil-sands-should-be-left-in-the-ground-nasa-scientist/article1743844/ 9.Enbridge reports leak from U.S. pipeline as Northern Gateway hearings begin http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/enbridge-reports-leak-from-us-pipeline-as-northern-gateway-hearings-begin/article2298173/ The real foreign interests in the oilsands http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/real-foreign-interests-oilsands/5981230/story.html The Enbridge Pipeline: The "Largest and Most Insidious Threat to Our Culture." (Gerald Amos, Former Chief Councilor, Haisla First Nation) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/gerald-amos/northern-gateway-pipeline1199956.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskymatt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I think Harper has (since his majority) shown his true colors. As if proroguing(sp?) parliament wasn't enough. The Harper regime will do whatever, whenever they want and don't give a rats ass what anyone thinks. I said it before to all conservatives, be careful what you ask for, you might not like it. And this is only the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well your maybe a leg up on some of us Matt---as I believe your a bit younger--but if they push oap up to 67 it's gonna affect a few of us. But this last visit to China was sealin that pipeline deal----we all now know the Chinese hold the majority share in syncrude---and they'll want their oil So now environmental assessment needs to be fast-tracked to consumate their agreement Man everyone knows that the west coast never is susceptible to things like earthquakes ---wonder what that does to a pipeline Seen the footage of the Enbridge pipeline spill in Michigan?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeytier Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Liberals and Conservatives alike have apparently had no problem eliminating sovereignty in our natural resources sector, but hey, it's not like the CEO's running the Canadian-based operations give any more of a damn about the ecological implications as those based in China, so may as well create a few more jobs along the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Issues like this should go to public votes... But Pierre Poutine might screw that up on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 If you voted for 'em, don't complain! This aspect - and others - of the current regime were pointed out about them at elections time again and again, so it should come as no surprise. That's not all they're up to either! p.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 This stuff is makin me sick guys According to a Calgary paper a while ago they reported that---a non profit group called "Forest ethics" spoke up against the pipeline---one guy had to be fired because the gov't threatened to yank it's charitable status. It seems--this ultra capitalistic greed agenda---if you question the plan---your an enemy to Canada. I'm starting to not recognize the place anymore. I couldn't agree more. p.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 If you voted for 'em, don't complain! This aspect - and others - of the current regime were pointed out about them at elections time again and again, so it should come as no surprise. That's not all they're up to either! p.- I guess that's why I can complain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigugli Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The liberals would do the exact same thing, if given the chance. Big money lobbies and campaign contributors call the shots. Elections are now nothing more than window dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Those who falsely believe they are free... are truly enslaved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ThisPlaceSucks Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) it's amazing how many lefty sentiments come out on OFC once a reform party zealot is our prime minister... but like paulus said, this should be no surprise... the 40% of the country that voted for this arse have become pretty quiet in recent months amidst scandal after scandal... that's what happens when the PM gets elected on an issue as sensitive as the LG issue, then uses his majority to push a bunch of bible thumping reform politics down our collective yaps... many people were duped by this issue and now are feeling that they've elected someone out of touch with the country as a whole. never forget, 60% of us didn't vote for this clown. knowing this stat keeps my faith that i live in one of the greatest countries in the world and in a few years we can return to progressing as a society. Edited March 14, 2012 by Dr. Salvelinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerritt Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I bet this thread get less replies the the NHL threads..... sad really... but a truism of our sad state of affairs... I am waiting for muskymike to spew Senators all over this.... seriously though, the puck bunnies aside... this thread deserves more attention then the over paid cry babies many on this board seem to drool over.... G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm with you on this Gerritt. Not enough pay attention to the politics going on in this country. Too much money in lobbying and the politicians are all bought and paid for by big business. Average citizens no longer have any say in how this country is run. Past time this was changed. We need to better vett the politicians we have running in our government and it seems the only way to do that is join the parties and get involved. Seems that only a minority join political parties and they all get sucked in to the status quo. These are the ones nominating the people that run for "our" representatives. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12footspringbok Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 The liberals would do the exact same thing, if given the chance. Big money lobbies and campaign contributors call the shots. Elections are now nothing more than window dressing. Those who falsely believe they are free... are truly enslaved People need to wake up! This sort of a thing isn't a right or left issue. Its a little guy gets screwed issue no matter what "colour" holds the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I bet this thread get less replies the the NHL threads..... sad really... but a truism of our sad state of affairs... I am waiting for muskymike to spew Senators all over this.... seriously though, the puck bunnies aside... this thread deserves more attention then the over paid cry babies many on this board seem to drool over.... G. Well obviously. We all know how long serious issues last as topics on OFC. Hockey is one of the nf things people here can banter about without getting a locked thread in two days.. Jeez, even the ice floe threads are disappearing. I completely agree that we need to support our natural resources to keep them natural...NOT to give them away. Water in the ground is worth much more than water in a bottle, even with the mark up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hey all--I'm back. @ Doc---yes I remember having those voting LG discussions here last election @ Gerritt---yes sad but true that not many will get worked up over this---but---if that oil spills over into something like the Skeena river system---then everyone will notice or if Prince Rupert becomes Cordova Alaska (Exxon Valdez) I will differ on some views though--our current gov't is taking a Bush style---your either with us or against us approach on too much---like the Vic Toews thing---with us or child pornographers Or we're enemies to Canada for questioning the northern gateway now gutting this fisheries act to please his oil based neighbors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Farmer Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Is there anyone here willing to make a stand!! They know were all a bunch of SHEEP. We keep taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushart Posted March 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm not sure what stand we can take?? People in the oil patch are bathing in dollars so they're not sayin much There was an online news article in the Globe and Mail on the pipeline and the Native reserves it must pass through----and typically they leave comments at the end of the story for readers Well I was surprised to see approx 500 responses---at 1st--much looking after the environment stuff---but near the end---man attitudes were flyin-----some people (I believe with interests)were saying that if the natives don't let it through---they should cut off their funding---I thought...Wow---they went that far!! Also---yesterday(Tues) in Ottawa---Natives and the sports and commercial fisherman were meeting on this in Ottawa. Also---lets not forget---The US had a major uproar and turned down Keystone xl (for now) for possible environmental reasons---pretty sure "Our" Great Bear Rainforest is sensitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Caster Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'm not sure what stand we can take?? People in the oil patch are bathing in dollars so they're not sayin much You got that right. I left school a green-eyed, pseudo tree hugger and landed a job in Air Quality in Fort Mac. Within 6 months, the green in my eyes was not for the environment. It was a stunning reality check overall.... it's very tough to be a defender of the environment, especially when facing people who rely on pollution to earn a living. This does not excuse a government with very little creativity, however; they should be setting the example, not trying to cheat and lie and sneak things past us. Maybe we should have voted for Stephan Dion and his "green Plan" haha, Boy, did that ever tank the Libs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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