Another view of the Attawapiskat

[vance]

My sister spent 35 years working with Health and Welfare Canada in the north and she knows most of the people named and in her for her opinion it is the FEDS [the uncaring ] who have caused this mess...

 

 

vance

Edited December 2, 2011 by aplumma
no mock cussing please

[manitoubass2]

Maybe I should also mention...

 

My step father was a Delaware band member from outside Chatham

 

I used to spend lots of time fishin on the Grand River in 6 Nations as a kid

 

And of course my time on the reserves in the north

 

My good friend is currently Chief of the Wabaskang band council at Ear Falls

 

My daughter studies these issues at Ottawa University

 

soooo----I probably have a pretty good reason to be interested---still not easy to answer though

 

I live on a reserve. I've seen alot in my years on this reservation, as well as others in my area.

 

And your absolutely right, there are no easy answers. It's a whole mess, on many many levels.

 

 

 

[Rod Caster]

Living in non-traditional-type houses, the people living in Attawapiskat and other similar places should be trained properly and provided with the proper equipment for building and maintaining these types of homes. Small wood mills, shops, tools and training opportunities. Even a modest house in that area can cost $1 000 000.00 to build because the materals and labour are shipped in from the south. These massive Gov. provisions end up being a huge money pit which ends up being a huge burden for the residents when they require support.

This is difficult and nearly impossible to sustain... The Gov and religions are to blame for countless faults when it comes to our Natives and the locals are also to blame for not being very creative and pro-active when it comes to helping themselves. I honestly feel bad for both sides and I believe that Canada is in for some huge changes in regards to the Canadian-Native Nation.

 

Everyone is SO sensitive about this issue that it's like walking on egg shells....but nobody wants to walk at all.

 

 

Both sides need to be a little less sensitive and use more logic to get out of this one.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Rod Caster

[bushart]

Pretty sure you won't be able to fast track in a short period what has been a way of life for a thousand years

 

Imagine aliens coming from planet x----taking us over with superior weapons and telling us

 

ok peeps---no more fishin---you still gonna try??

[Rod Caster]

Pretty sure you won't be able to fast track in a short period what has been a way of life for a thousand years

 

Imagine aliens coming from planet x----taking us over with superior weapons and telling us

 

ok peeps---no more fishin---you still gonna try??

 

Fair enough, but the problem at hand is the housing. One brick at a time, figuratively.

[irishfield]

Good to see it's staying civil... don't forget we have at least one member with family there and I'd hate to see him get run off from here as well...

[Moosebunk]

Good to see it's staying civil... don't forget we have at least one member with family there and I'd hate to see him get run off from here as well...

 

And on that note...

 

This is an absolutely impossible topic to pick sides on... Most people have little to no idea of what is real, what is media driven and what is total Bull. It's difficult to even find a starting point and it's such a coin toss which points to weigh in on as, it's almost day-to-day or heart versus head, which call to make. My opinions over the years on many things have flip-flopped often simply because of apathy, empathy, sympathy, anger or any other mood.

 

Aside from Angus who I've never met, Dr. John Waddell is a friend whom I've shared quite a few good times with in Skat and Moose, and who was my reference for new employment upon leaving the James Bay. John is as straight a shooter as anyone I have ever known. Grand Chief Stan Louttit is my wifes uncle. He's an honest, good hearted soul who has acted on behalf of the Mushkego Territory and it's people for some time. Attawapiskat Theresa Spence is friend to the family, but especially Bren's late sister. Those are your four involved in the birth of what has now become the "Attawapiskat Crisis."

 

 

It's grey people, it's NEVER so black and white. Very dim stuff at times to truly dwell on, believe me I have wondered many days and nights over many experiences that affected me directly.

 

Aboriginal peoples issues are global. If it's not the micro-populace model of Attawpiskat it could be Australia...? With 12 years of direct involvement, 10 years of living amongst the Cree on James Bay, 2 years living two blocks away from those homes in the video from Attawapiskat, and having married one of the communities most brilliant and loved daughters from that unique, tight-knit, isolated, and interesting community, I can tell anyone 100% that if you think you know all the answers to what will fix and should be done with this recent housing; and beyond that our Indian Affairs issues, then you are an ignorant and arrogant fool. It just runs too deep for any full understanding.

 

As far as the housing... the video doesn't lie. It's accurate as I remember life to be. Nothing much has changed since 2000 to 2001 and 2008 & 2010. It's beyond Toronto, beyond North Bay, beyond Moosonee and all the way into a world that opens the eyes to something pretty foreign to most Canadians. It's a town that shapes itself, as much as it is shaped by where it is, and by whom and what support it. To say that the housing crisis is a result of one thing or another is false. It's everything... it really is. And unfortunately for me it's too involved to lay it all out here.

 

I'm happy to see this for Attawapiskat though. Something needs to be addressed and it's not really just the housing, or funding, or Governance... it's the eye-opening and often difficult, TRUTH. It's having more people educated, Native and White, and finding a common ground and understood appreciation of, and by peoples from both races. It's about both peoples all living up to their fullest potential and using what life tools are provided to acquire those life skills necessary in achieving a greater quality of self being, and ultimately community. It's about taking responsibility and making the right choices. No more free and lazy living under a blanket of grace provided by tax-payers; that going out to all our healthy welfare recipients Status and Non... Start with maybe trying forced education and/or hours labored in order to qualify for a therefor earned convenience of having, money. It could be a start. Because in Attawapiskat alone... I could take a day and think up a hundred things the hugely unemployed could be doing for their monthly cheques... men, women, and school-aged children. Self worth could be so altering for many souls there, and that would only help reshape that town and society full of good people which has many whom just aren't living up to their potential.

 

It's up to the wise of both peoples to really rethink then begin forcing some changes towards a better future. Because as Joe here agrees as well, the past few centuries haven't really worked out in anyones favor.

[ehg]

And on that note...

 

This is an absolutely impossible topic to pick sides on... Most people have little to no idea of what is real, what is media driven and what is total Bull. It's difficult to even find a starting point and it's such a coin toss which points to weigh in on as, it's almost day-to-day or heart versus head, which call to make. My opinions over the years on many things have flip-flopped often simply because of apathy, empathy, sympathy, anger or any other mood.

 

Aside from Angus who I've never met, Dr. John Waddell is a friend whom I've shared quite a few good times with in Skat and Moose, and who was my reference for new employment upon leaving the James Bay. John is as straight a shooter as anyone I have ever known. Grand Chief Stan Louttit is my wifes uncle. He's an honest, good hearted soul who has acted on behalf of the Mushkego Territory and it's people for some time. Attawapiskat Theresa Spence is friend to the family, but especially Bren's late sister. Those are your four involved in the birth of what has now become the "Attawapiskat Crisis."

 

 

It's grey people, it's NEVER so black and white. Very dim stuff at times to truly dwell on, believe me I have wondered many days and nights over many experiences that affected me directly.

 

Aboriginal peoples issues are global. If it's not the micro-populace model of Attawpiskat it could be Australia...? With 12 years of direct involvement, 10 years of living amongst the Cree on James Bay, 2 years living two blocks away from those homes in the video from Attawapiskat, and having married one of the communities most brilliant and loved daughters from that unique, tight-knit, isolated, and interesting community, I can tell anyone 100% that if you think you know all the answers to what will fix and should be done with this recent housing; and beyond that our Indian Affairs issues, then you are an ignorant and arrogant fool. It just runs too deep for any full understanding.

 

As far as the housing... the video doesn't lie. It's accurate as I remember life to be. Nothing much has changed since 2000 to 2001 and 2008 & 2010. It's beyond Toronto, beyond North Bay, beyond Moosonee and all the way into a world that opens the eyes to something pretty foreign to most Canadians. It's a town that shapes itself, as much as it is shaped by where it is, and by whom and what support it. To say that the housing crisis is a result of one thing or another is false. It's everything... it really is. And unfortunately for me it's too involved to lay it all out here.

 

I'm happy to see this for Attawapiskat though. Something needs to be addressed and it's not really just the housing, or funding, or Governance... it's the eye-opening and often difficult, TRUTH. It's having more people educated, Native and White, and finding a common ground and understood appreciation of, and by peoples from both races. It's about both peoples all living up to their fullest potential and using what life tools are provided to acquire those life skills necessary in achieving a greater quality of self being, and ultimately community. It's about taking responsibility and making the right choices. No more free and lazy living under a blanket of grace provided by tax-payers; that going out to all our healthy welfare recipients Status and Non... Start with maybe trying forced education and/or hours labored in order to qualify for a therefor earned convenience of having, money. It could be a start. Because in Attawapiskat alone... I could take a day and think up a hundred things the hugely unemployed could be doing for their monthly cheques... men, women, and school-aged children. Self worth could be so altering for many souls there, and that would only help reshape that town and society full of good people which has many whom just aren't living up to their potential.

 

It's up to the wise of both peoples to really rethink then begin forcing some changes towards a better future. Because as Joe here agrees as well, the past few centuries haven't really worked out in anyones favor.

 

 

Thanks very much Drew for the insightful and informative words drawn from experience.

 

Was provided the link by a native friend who suggested that attention should be drawn to this plight.

I have no clue or worthwhile opinion so am humbled and very grateful for your response.

[Grimace]

I have no clue or worthwhile opinion so am humbled and very grateful for your response.

 

I feel the same way. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion Drew and thanks to ehg for bringing it up.

 

I know next to nothing about this but I will add one thing. De Beers is making a killing from the diamond mines and they should be forced by the government to help or get out. De Beers has made mountains of money in Africa and has not done anything but fuel tribalism, hatred and slavery amongst it's people. They are not a trustworthy corporation (are any?) so the Canadian government in my (uneducated, ignorant and meaningless) opinion should tag some more demands on to the conditions of their mining license.

 

Transportation of materials seems to be a very large issue. De Beers gets all sorts of mining equipment up there.

 

Wherever De Beers seems to go, they fill their boots as the people who live where they extract live in severe poverty. We shouldn't allow that here.

[DRIFTER_016]

I feel the same way. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion Drew and thanks to ehg for bringing it up.

 

I know next to nothing about this but I will add one thing. De Beers is making a killing from the diamond mines and they should be forced by the government to help or get out. De Beers has made mountains of money in Africa and has not done anything but fuel tribalism, hatred and slavery amongst it's people. They are not a trustworthy corporation (are any?) so the Canadian government in my (uneducated, ignorant and meaningless) opinion should tag some more demands on to the conditions of their mining license.

 

Transportation of materials seems to be a very large issue. De Beers gets all sorts of mining equipment up there.

 

Wherever De Beers seems to go, they fill their boots as the people who live where they extract live in severe poverty. We shouldn't allow that here.

 

 

DeBeers, BHP and Diavik do a lot for the people of the NWT.

They employ a lot of the native people and pay them excellent wages. They do a lot for the communities and for us here in Yellowknife. Millions have been donated for many projects and causes in Yellowknife alone.

 

I don't see how DeBeers can be blamed for African tribal issues that have been going on since the dawn of man.

[Moosebunk]

DeBeers, BHP and Diavik do a lot for the people of the NWT.

They employ a lot of the native people and pay them excellent wages. They do a lot for the communities and for us here in Yellowknife. Millions have been donated for many projects and causes in Yellowknife alone.

 

Agreed.

 

Same in Skat, but not as good a deal as in the NWT. Not for money back, work and culture issues. But still, agreed Dave. There are some good things DeBeers are doing.

 

 

The future corporate interests towards "The Ring Of Fire," are certainly going to shape Ontario's north even more. For the better or worse of environment and people, remains unknown.

[Skipper D]

Ihave some thing i need to go and find and bring back here to post that may sum things up in a good way , be right back if i find it .

 

 

[Roy]

Ihave some thing i need to go and find and bring back here to post that may sum things up in a good way , be right back if i find it .

 

 

 

Does this mean you won't be back if you don't find it?

[Skipper D]

I for one would stand beside the first nations people any day,just like my forefathers did in the last four hundred and twelve years , in my french family up bringing this was taught to us to never forget how they helped us to survive and for what i owe just my generations time just to mention , remember site 41 , we owe them our drinking water which only they could have saved for us . I strongly feel for thease people , May be the answers are simple but who see's it :

[Skipper D]

Does this mean you won't be back if you don't find it?

 

 

lol if you give it time Roy my actions will explain them selfs , just pay no attention to what i am saying .

[LeXXington]

Very good read, thanks for posting

[ehg]

lol if you give it time Roy my actions will explain them selfs , just pay no attention to what i am saying .

 

Worried that certain input would put an end to an otherwise healthy discussion?

[Skipper D]

Worried that certain input would put an end to an otherwise healthy discussion?

 

 

No , i am trying to be very careful .

[ehg]

And on that note...

 

This is an absolutely impossible topic to pick sides on... Most people have little to no idea of what is real, what is media driven and what is total Bull. It's difficult to even find a starting point and it's such a coin toss which points to weigh in on as, it's almost day-to-day or heart versus head, which call to make. My opinions over the years on many things have flip-flopped often simply because of apathy, empathy, sympathy, anger or any other mood.

 

Aside from Angus who I've never met, Dr. John Waddell is a friend whom I've shared quite a few good times with in Skat and Moose, and who was my reference for new employment upon leaving the James Bay. John is as straight a shooter as anyone I have ever known. Grand Chief Stan Louttit is my wifes uncle. He's an honest, good hearted soul who has acted on behalf of the Mushkego Territory and it's people for some time. Attawapiskat Theresa Spence is friend to the family, but especially Bren's late sister. Those are your four involved in the birth of what has now become the "Attawapiskat Crisis."

 

 

It's grey people, it's NEVER so black and white. Very dim stuff at times to truly dwell on, believe me I have wondered many days and nights over many experiences that affected me directly.

 

Aboriginal peoples issues are global. If it's not the micro-populace model of Attawpiskat it could be Australia...? With 12 years of direct involvement, 10 years of living amongst the Cree on James Bay, 2 years living two blocks away from those homes in the video from Attawapiskat, and having married one of the communities most brilliant and loved daughters from that unique, tight-knit, isolated, and interesting community, I can tell anyone 100% that if you think you know all the answers to what will fix and should be done with this recent housing; and beyond that our Indian Affairs issues, then you are an ignorant and arrogant fool. It just runs too deep for any full understanding.

 

As far as the housing... the video doesn't lie. It's accurate as I remember life to be. Nothing much has changed since 2000 to 2001 and 2008 & 2010. It's beyond Toronto, beyond North Bay, beyond Moosonee and all the way into a world that opens the eyes to something pretty foreign to most Canadians. It's a town that shapes itself, as much as it is shaped by where it is, and by whom and what support it. To say that the housing crisis is a result of one thing or another is false. It's everything... it really is. And unfortunately for me it's too involved to lay it all out here.

 

I'm happy to see this for Attawapiskat though. Something needs to be addressed and it's not really just the housing, or funding, or Governance... it's the eye-opening and often difficult, TRUTH. It's having more people educated, Native and White, and finding a common ground and understood appreciation of, and by peoples from both races. It's about both peoples all living up to their fullest potential and using what life tools are provided to acquire those life skills necessary in achieving a greater quality of self being, and ultimately community. It's about taking responsibility and making the right choices. No more free and lazy living under a blanket of grace provided by tax-payers; that going out to all our healthy welfare recipients Status and Non... Start with maybe trying forced education and/or hours labored in order to qualify for a therefor earned convenience of having, money. It could be a start. Because in Attawapiskat alone... I could take a day and think up a hundred things the hugely unemployed could be doing for their monthly cheques... men, women, and school-aged children. Self worth could be so altering for many souls there, and that would only help reshape that town and society full of good people which has many whom just aren't living up to their potential.

 

It's up to the wise of both peoples to really rethink then begin forcing some changes towards a better future. Because as Joe here agrees as well, the past few centuries haven't really worked out in anyones favor.

Just thought i would bump this very informative post onto this page.

[Roy]

I don't think there is anyone here except Moosebunk and perhaps a very few others who have the knowledge and the life experience to discuss this situation intelligently, and that's what this needs. Reading articles such as what Eric posted help a lot but judgment calls can't be made based on a five minute read when there's many centuries of history to be aware of.

[tb4me]

I don't think there is anyone here except Moosebunk and perhaps a very few others who have the knowledge and the life experience to discuss this situation intelligently, and that's what this needs. Reading articles such as what Eric posted help a lot but judgment calls can't be made based on a five minute read when there's many centuries of history to be aware of.

history or not, I think we can all agree that there is a problem and it has to be delt with. Are the people of Attawapiskat wanting help? If so lets do it and forget politics and hisotry.Plain and simple.

[DRIFTER_016]

Here is some interesting reading on first nation housing from CBC.

 

Housing Story

[tb4me]

Mike Holmes has a valid point. Now I wonder if he will get involved.

[Skipper D]

Earlyer today i was going to ask this question after Drifter posted the link "Housing story" , Does Habitat for Humanity reach out as well to the first nations people ?? , and if not do you think Mike Holmes can fill that roll ?

[Moosebunk]

It's great to read different excerpts and opinions from people here. The interest shown for Attawapiskat these days is obviously valid. I'm surely hoping that the Band and Government can really come together and make such a community better on more levels than just housing. Talking with different co-workers and friends today whom ask me about Skat, it's kinda just great that on any level, people are curious. This is the window I believe, during which the stage could be set. Keeping informed and interested should only keep that window open longer. Tough choices and hard committments from both ends are what I would personally like to see... followed by improvement.

 

Mike Holmes... who dat? Bunnuck Klikman http://www.bunnuck.com/ is the man of the Mushkego for any job..... Jushtuk!!!