F_ast Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) The biggest difference in the GBay strain muskie and the Kawartha muskie (other than potential size/ mass) is that Gbay muskie (or any muskie that survive in with a heavy pike population) is that they spawn twice; from what I understand. I typical shallow spawn that is early and closer to the pike spawn and then a deeper spawn a few weeks later; which is away from the typical spawning grounds. I beleive this info came from a Wisconsin study on Leech lake strain several years ago. But it appears that most co-existing muskie follow this routine. I would have thought any Norhter Muskie strain, GBay, through the french river and Nippissing, NW Ontario or the Larry would suffice as all these areas have healthy Pike/ muskie populations. Edited September 23, 2011 by F_ast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike rousseau Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'll try to answer some of your questions with answers that are strictly my opinion. Guys that enjoy catching and eating pike should have no problem finding a lake where they can do so. Pike are not going to be extinct. Even if musky establish in Simcoe you will still be Mable to catch pike. Why stock a lake that has pike that will eat the musky? Well, like I said in my previous post - pike and musky have co-existed in Georgian Bay for years showing that it can be done. You just need the GB strain of musky. As for the trout, whitefish and perch populations, I think they are strong enough on Simcoe to support a musky fishery. They supported musky before. Why bother tho...? There are plenty of lakes to catch musky... I understand that simcoe would grow some giant musky... But trying to bring back an "extinct" fish to a water body... Why not help lakes that have struggling musky populations? That can easily be helped...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Why bother tho...? There are plenty of lakes to catch musky... I understand that simcoe would grow some giant musky... But trying to bring back an "extinct" fish to a water body... Why not help lakes that have struggling musky populations? That can easily be helped...? Follow the MONEY Mike, always follow the MONEY... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) I must respectfully disagree with you. If the habitat in Simcoe is healthy enough to support a reproducing pike population (which I believe it is) then musky will be able to survive and reproduce also. Except of coarse that pike and musky that co-exist use two different spawning habitats. If pike and musky spawn in the same place Pike predation wipes out the musky hatch. That why when pike are introduced to the Kawartha's the musky population plummets. There are two distinct breeding habits for musky. Riverine and Lackustrine. Not going to go into detail google it. One co-exist with pike one doesn't. It is the spawning habitat of the former that is ruined in Simcoe. Edited September 23, 2011 by Musky or Specks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Except of coarse that pike and musky that co-exist use two different spawning habitats. If pike and musky spawn in the same place Pike predation wipes out the musky hatch. That why when pike are introduced to the Kawartha's the musky population plummets. There are two distinct breeding habits for musky. Riverine and Lackustrine. Not going to go into detail google it. One co-exist with pike one doesn't. It is the spawning habitat of the former that is ruined in Simcoe. I can see your point and this is a good debate. But the GB strain has never been tried in Simcoe has it? You are comparing the spawning habitat of Lakers and whitefish to that of musky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I can see your point and this is a good debate. But the GB strain has never been tried in Simcoe has it? You are comparing the spawning habitat of Lakers and whitefish to that of musky. For the riverine spawning musky it is very similar yes and that habitat is ruined from shoreline encroachment and urbanization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmer Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I agree 100%. More walleye in Simcoe would be awesome! How do we start a walleye stocking program? Find a financial backer first. The MNR says it's too expensive to raise walleye fry for them to initiate it. That's what I have heard anyways whenever the Kawarthas comes up. Hmmmm, I think they raise them in Haliburton. Simcoe would be a great walleye fishery and perfect for big walleye tournaments. It would be nice to target them in the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cram Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Why bother tho...? There are plenty of lakes to catch musky... I understand that simcoe would grow some giant musky... But trying to bring back an "extinct" fish to a water body... Why not help lakes that have struggling musky populations? That can easily be helped...? Doubt you'll see them supplementing an existing population with hatchery fish in Ontario. Screws with teh genetics of that population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 For the riverine spawning musky it is very similar yes and that habitat is ruined from shoreline encroachment and urbanization. I agree that there is shoreline damage as more and more development comes to the lake. I'm hoping these fish will use the numerous mid-lake shoals and weed beds to spawn. I've lived beside and fished this lake my entire life and I know it quite well. I think the large pike I've caught in the Virginia beach area are spawning in deeper, rockier water than the pike in Cooks Bay. To me it seems like there is still some usable habitat for these fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I hope and wish the liberals would stop wasting my tax dollars but I don't think that's going to happen either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I hope and wish the liberals would stop wasting my tax dollars but I don't think that's going to happen either No,it won't. But Musky reproducing in lake Simcoe? I'm going to remain positive and say yes it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Familyfisherman Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Interesting thread -- thanks for starting it kickinfrog... There are already some Musky on Simcoe -- each year bass anglers have them follow up to the boat, and some adult fish are caught and released annually. Not many, but it happens. While I can't comment intelligently on Muskies Canada's plans, I certainly wouldn't discourage them. The lake clearly had an excellent population at one time. With the ever increasing water quality and protected habitat at the end of Cooks Bay for spawning, I don't see why a population might not do ok? Competing with pike isn't new...it may take time and patience but let's give them both. Jason Borwick is the Biologist at the MNR responsible for Lake Simcoe, and I've been to his presentations on the state of the water, whitefish, and most recently naturally reproducing Lake Trout poplulations -- great information. They are totally on it when it comes to the state of the Lake Simcoe fisheries. I would expect MC has been in contact with the MNR and have Jason's and others blessing on their efforts. If it was a complete waste of time and resources, I expect the MNR would've stated as much, wouldn't they? While more walleye would be great, MC obviously is an advocate for Musky. Impossible to please everybody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes I'm a bitter jaded old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Interesting thread -- thanks for starting it kickinfrog... There are already some Musky on Simcoe -- each year bass anglers have them follow up to the boat, and some adult fish are caught and released annually. Not many, but it happens. While I can't comment intelligently on Muskies Canada's plans, I certainly wouldn't discourage them. The lake clearly had an excellent population at one time. With the ever increasing water quality and protected habitat at the end of Cooks Bay for spawning, I don't see why a population might not do ok? Competing with pike isn't new...it may take time and patience but let's give them both. Jason Borwick is the Biologist at the MNR responsible for Lake Simcoe, and I've been to his presentations on the state of the water, whitefish, and most recently naturally reproducing Lake Trout poplulations -- great information. They are totally on it when it comes to the state of the Lake Simcoe fisheries. I would expect MC has been in contact with the MNR and have Jason's and others blessing on their efforts. If it was a complete waste of time and resources, I expect the MNR would've stated as much, wouldn't they? While more walleye would be great, MC obviously is an advocate for Musky. Impossible to please everybody... There is a political agenda at stake for the MNR It's a very high profile waste of money and resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistyriver1 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Interesting this thread came up as my son and I were out on Simcoe last weekend fishing for bass and pike and we lost a musky boat side...about 30 inches in size. I for one think it would be neat to have muskies in Simcoe. I applaud those that are at least giving it a try to bring them back. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky or Specks Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Interesting this thread came up as my son and I were out on Simcoe last weekend fishing for bass and pike and we lost a musky boat side...about 30 inches in size. I for one think it would be neat to have muskies in Simcoe. I applaud those that are at least giving it a try to bring them back. Jim There's a world of difference in a musky fishery and a self sustaining musky population. We could definately have an awesome musky fishery on Simcoe and I have no problem with that. But let's concentrate the effort that way instead of wasting time and effort to create a self sustaining population. (Just stock the piss out of it) Similar to the Grand River Trout fishery the goal was a self sustaining population but when it was realized that wasn't going to happen but that the fishery in and of itself had an intrinsic value Resources could be more focused. No more artificial spawning channels etc. Edited September 23, 2011 by Musky or Specks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I will tell you in 10 or so years if it's a good idea or a waste of money until then....well I remember when one could catch big muskie on simcoe and i have caught my share and would love to see it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt bruce Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I will tell you in 10 or so years if it's a good idea or a waste of money until then....well I remember when one could catch big muskie on simcoe and i have caught my share and would love to see it again As one who remembers catching big skis in simcoe in the 60's (damn Im ageing myself)but times change habitate changes no more trex hunters in Alberta lets put the limited money we have into what can be sustained . Just an old guy who has seen the future . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoxansteel Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 There are plenty of Musky stalkers in Canada. Ive got about 15 10inch stalkers in my Lakewood box right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esoxansteel Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Agree I've stated my views in the past and quit Muskies Canada because of this waste of resources Whats the waste of resources you talking about, trying to establish a musky fishery that was once plentiuful in Lake Simcoe, the water has cleaned up, the commercial fishery is gone, look at the smallies in Simcoe, and how the size has increased with them, they are site feeders as are muskies, im sure there will be a selfsustaing population of muskies in Simcoe in the future, maybe you should just stick to Specks, and concentrate your efforts in reibilating the dwindling creek fishery, through habitat destruction along creek beds, which allows surface temps to increase, which does not far well with Specks etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerry Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 The funny or sad part to me depending on how you look it is not too many years ago I read a story on muskies in cooch dying off of old age.The story went on about the lack of people actively fishing for them.I have to admit before I got the bug we fished really only for bass/walleye and pike.I have seen and been over top of muskies easily pushing the 30 lb plus mark in my youth in the shallow portions of the narrows during the spring around spawning time and couldn't believe we could glide a canoe right up on one and not spook it.I have seen a couple of mounts of over 40 lb fish from cooch that are from the 60's back when they were obviously more plentiful. Anyway no sooner had I decided I was going to try for them on cooch when the following year it is cut off to help the fishery in Simcoe recover.Personally even though they are connected and bass are known to travel from one lake to the other I think each lake has its' own population and they don't share the same water.I don't think muskies are viewed with the same reverence or ever will be in this watershed as they are in the Kawarthas or other lakes with a reputation for numbers or size.Simcoe is known for its' perch,bass,lakers and whities and really doesn't need any more help unless they want to allow us 2 herring too.In that case I'd be a real happy fisherman. Kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outllaw Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 (edited) With a great forage base musky can make a comeback. m.c.i. has raised money,and has taken a forefront stance on helping mother nature. hats off to them.. the detrimental issues in this eco-system is pollution and habitat for all species. With this being adressed it can be a win-win for all species fishermen. Edited September 24, 2011 by outlaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skud Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 I believe the biggest threat to the muskie in Simcoe is the thousands of people who fish it and don't know the regs, don't care about the regs or can't tell the difference between pike and muskie. They will continue to be fished out for dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Bob Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 I believe the biggest threat to the muskie in Simcoe is the thousands of people who fish it and don't know the regs, don't care about the regs or can't tell the difference between pike and muskie. They will continue to be fished out for dinner. I believe you might have something there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskymatt Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 I believe the biggest threat to the muskie in Simcoe is the thousands of people who fish it and don't know the regs, don't care about the regs or can't tell the difference between pike and muskie. They will continue to be fished out for dinner. Thus the Muskies Canada KTD sign program, presence at shows and website,public education and working with the MNR to establish reasonable size limits, MCI is a committed to the education and preservation towards Muskies. Canada has(Simcoe aside) a completely self sustaining Muskie population, the cost to stock per fish is crazy expensive. We need to protect our resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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