An interesting article on Asian Carp

[hammercarp]

I came across this article recently on another forum ...

 

Asian carp: perhaps not so threatening to the Great Lakes after all?

Published: Friday, August 05, 2011, 8:55 AM Updated: Friday, August 05, 2011, 9:07 AM

Russ White By Russ White

TL.jpgTina Lam

By Laura Young

 

Detroit Free Press environmental reporter Tina Lam joins Greening of the Great Lakes this week to discuss her six-part series on Asian carp. In it, she tries to unravel the web of complex, often contradictory information surrounding the impacts of Asian carp in the Mississippi River Basin, and what it would mean if Asian carp migrated into the Great Lakes.

 

Lam traveled with video reporter Brian Kaufman to Baton Rouge, La., and then up the Mississippi River until reaching the Great Lakes region, interviewing scientists, anglers, businessmen and government officials about the Asian carp menace.

 

Surprisingly, as Lam talked with more and more stakeholders in areas infested with Asian carp, she discovered the fish wasn't having quite the dramatic impact on ecosystems that many fear if Asian carp ever reached the Great Lakes.

 

"In the Great Lakes, we've often heard that if Asian carp get into one of our lakes, it's game over," says Lam. "What we have learned from our trip is that it's not game over—it's taken decades for Asian carp to establish themselves in the Mississippi."

 

She found inconsistencies between most anglers on what native fish species are decreasing in number because of Asian carp. Scientists she spoke with often reported while some native species are thinner or fewer in number than usual, the dire predictions that Asian carp will outcompete native fish for food and starve them off may be premature.

 

Lam also learned that even when reviewing the scientific literature on the subject of Asian carp, one must be wary. In her own research Lam uncovered a significant misinterpretation of fact. It has been widely reported in the media that Asian carp comprise 80 to even 95% of some rivers in the Mississippi River basin. When Lam talked with Asian carp expert Duane Chapman of the USGS to verify these claims, Chapman feared it referred back to a statement taken out of context from an informative lecture he gave on Asian carp. According to Chapman, on one of his research outings to specifically sample for Asian carp, 80% of his catch consisted of the invasive species. If his equipment had been set up to target every fish species in the river, he believes he would've had different results.

 

"It's often hard to wrestle these things to the ground," says Lam. "That's why there continues to be policy debates because the science is not completely clear."

 

Funding encompasses just one area of debate. As the government pours money into the Great Lakes region to prevent Asian carp from entering, little financial support is given to southern states where the fish are breeding. Lacking the resources to harvest the fish in these states, their numbers keep multiplying.

 

"If you don't get rid of these seed populations, no matter what you do in the Great Lakes those fish are going to keep swimming north in search of new food and habitat," says Lam.

 

One of the most recognized and controversial solutions to this problem is hydologically separating the Great Lakes Basin from the Mississippi by closing the Chicago Sanitary Canal. While it appears this issue is "being studied to death," Lam believes no swift progress will made unless Great Lakes states reach out to southern states already battling Asian carp. With Illinois and Indiana opposing the separation, Great Lakes states simply won't have enough pull in Congress to get the canal closed, Lam suggests.

 

"We need to be thinking of this as a national problem and not just a Great Lakes issue," says Lam.

 

An international problem I would say. Please don't get me wrong I hope we never see these fish in the Great Lakes. I also wish they had named these things something other than carp.

 

The article

 

Another article/video

Edited August 9, 2011 by hammercarp

[Joey]

Interesting article. I've been following coverage of this situation and still feel, after reading this article, that it would be devastating if they got into the great lakes.

 

Besides the fact they will most probably take away and starve off the native fish, just by their sheer numbers and vast reproduction abilities, who wants a carp smacking them in the face every time you head out on the big lake for salmon or trout

[Terry]

I read it and it just seems like another persons opinion

 

even if they don't devastate the other fish populations, they will make driving a boat the most dangerous sport in the world

[mercman]

I agree with most, that if they do make it up here, it will eventually devastate the sport fishing industry in the Great Lakes ecosystem.

I also believe its not IF, but WHEN, they make it up here. Sooner or later, someone on the line of defence will screw up, and they will get through the barriers put in place to stop them.Just a matter of time, thats all. IMO

 

 

Paul

[blaque]

Just spitballin here, but what is the depth of the mississippi? You see these things taking to the air in alot of videos, but would this be based on the fact that the mississippi channel is 10-15 feet deep or shallower?? i duno, im asking. If its shallow then the boats are ripping thru these fish and in turn, the reason behind them launching. Do these fish generally hug the bottom? If so, would the fish launching be an issue haulin butt out in 30 foot of water, 40 foot? Duno, just thinking out loud here.

 

I also dont know what to make of the article. Im not a fish biologist, so who should i believe??

[Rod Caster]

the truth is probably somewhere in the middle... They would affect the great lakes but probably won't destroy them.

Why can't speckled trout be as hardy and prolific as these greasy buggers?

[Fisherman]

I don't know why Meow-meow or Ruff-ruff cat and dog food companies haven't jumped in there to make animal food. By the purported amount of carp in there, it looks like a pretty good resource.

[hammercarp]

I don't know why Meow-meow or Ruff-ruff cat and dog food companies haven't jumped in there to make animal food. By the purported amount of carp in there, it looks like a pretty good resource.

One of the guys in our carp fishing club used to commercially fish common carp and buffalo fish for the pet food industry. I believe that disappeared when it could not compete with the offal from the chicken industry. If you look at the ingredients in most cat and dog foods you will find chicken , even in cat food that smells like fish.

[Fisherman]

I believe that disappeared when it could not compete with the offal from the chicken industry. If you look at the ingredients in most cat and dog foods you will find chicken , even in cat food that smells like fish.

 

Offal, I don't know, you sure some of that stuff should be spelled awful by the smell of the can..

[timmeh]

You know for a long time I thought this idea that asian carp would destroy the Great Lakes was overblown somewhat. I'm not suggesting it's not an important issue. We should be doing everything possible to prevent them from colonizing the lakes, as it's not worth taking any chances. Of course it won't be good if they got in, but will it destroy the lakes? Absolutely not. Natural systems have a way of adapting to new species. What about the zebra mussels and round gobies? Both were originally predicted to devastate the lakes. Did they? Would it be good, of course not, will it destroy the lakes? Absolutely not. Natural systems have a way of adapting to new species. What about the zebra mussels and round gobies? Both were originally predicted to devastate the lakes. Did they? Now there have been some changes no doubt but the fish are still there.

 

Part of the reason I don't believe there impact will be a destructive as most is in fact due to the zebras and gobies. What they've done is sort of re-engineered the ecosystems away from a pelagic to a more benthic dominated food web. Phytoplankton growing in the open water is being replaced with benthic forms of vegetation, evident in the much clearer water in many areas. And these carp are pelagic fish and there simply isn't enough of a food web there to support a huge population of fish in most areas of the lake. Plus I believe I read somewhere the fish need flowing water to reproduce. River inlets would suffice but not the entire lakes. The lake ecosystem is different from the Mississippi.

 

And finally I believe they're already here. They've found DNA past the barrier into L Michigan already, plus a few random fish have been recorded throughout the lakes. And if a few are recorded you can be sure others are around.

[John Bacon]

Things are rarely as extreme as they are hyped up to be. I am sure that will include asian carp in the great lakes. I have heard many times that the asian carp will eat all of the plankton so there will be none left for the other species and all the other fish will starve ... wouldn't the asian carp all starve to death too?

 

I am sure they will have a significant impact on the ecosystem. They may reduce or eliminate certain species; but not all species. But they won't be as devastating as they have been made out to be.

[pics]

The regular carp we have devastated Binbrook by uprooting all the vegetation and stirring up the water. The suspended clay then choked out the light from the underwater weeds.... So we have a fishbowl with little weeds.. Come fish them out of the lake, would ya?

[gogu392]

The regular carp we have devastated Binbrook by uprooting all the vegetation and stirring up the water. The suspended clay then choked out the light from the underwater weeds.... So we have a fishbowl with little weeds.. Come fish them out of the lake, would ya?

 

I would like to fish them, but the problem with Binbrook is that is heavily poluted, thx to the smart guys from Hamilton airport.

Read bellow:

http://www.downloads.ene.gov.on.ca/en/publications/dataproducts/sportfish/advisories/LAKE43077948.html

The fight of a carp in the hook is a lot more tought than any bass or pike. A bass rod is not able to handle a small carp. And the carp meat is better that bass if you know how to prepare it. I am talkin about common carp here.

[Joey]

wouldn't the asian carp all starve to death too?

 

 

Yes they would and are beginning to in the rivers they are in now, becoming thinner as they compete for food with their own species.

[hammercarp]

The regular carp we have devastated Binbrook by uprooting all the vegetation and stirring up the water. The suspended clay then choked out the light from the underwater weeds.... So we have a fishbowl with little weeds.. Come fish them out of the lake, would ya?

 

pics

I tried to google up any information on carp ruining Lake Niapenco. As stated above the waters there have a much bigger problem than carp. That's what almost all the responses were about.

I did find this statement from a local angler. I don't believe he is a carp angler.

"I used to fish there some time ago on the far side, outside of the park, off the bridge. It was great fishing for Pike, Largemouth, and Crappie (good sized fish) It went to crap when they were trying to kill the Carp in the 90's. Sound like it is getting better again."

 

This year we had a cold wet spring which caused high water levels and high turbidity throughout the region. The Chippewa, the Grand , and other creeks and rivers in the region have always had high turbidity due to the clay soil.

[eman]

I would disagree with some of the main arguments the article is making.

We don't have accurate scientic information, so we don't know its affecting the ecosystem at all. What do the Asina Carp eat & where do they spawn, and at what time of year? That would help scientists focus on the species with facing the most competition. If Asian carp eat fish eggs, I don't see how the ecosystem will not be affected.

 

Southern states lacking resources to harvest fish. From what I understand no one harvests these to eat and are only used for feed.

 

Someone early wrote that an ecosystem will balance itself out. I completely agree but at what cost. If the Asian carp enter the great lakes and increase their population, what species will ultimately decline in numbers.

 

I would be hesitant to decide if the Gobby hasn;t negatively effected the ecosystem with their invasion. Yes, the smallmouth in Lake Simcoe and Erie are huge, but these fish are also the older generation. The gobbies prey on smallmouth eggs and what effect does this have over the last 10 years of smallmouth fry surviving and growing into adults.

 

On the flip side, can you imagine the potential size of predatory fish like muskie, pike and salmon?