long-gun gone

[GBW]

Tories to scrap long-gun registry this fall

 

OTTAWA — The Conservative government will introduce legislation in the fall to scrap the long-gun registry, this time using its parliamentary majority to back it up.

 

 

The vote will be an early test of unity for Canada's new official Opposition — the NDP — which wrangled with internal disagreement over the contentious issue when it was voted on as a private member's bill in 2010.

 

 

Manitoba MP Candice Hoeppner, the Tory backbencher who introduced the failed private member's bill last year, said earlier this week the government will kill the registry soon after Parliament resumes.

 

 

"Everyone knows it's been part of our party's policy for many years, and the prime minister committed to Canadians during the election we would scrap the long-gun registry," she told Postmedia News. "We're going to follow through on that commitment."

 

 

"Canadians can expect to see it fairly early on in the fall," she added. "It's a priority for our government."

 

 

Hoeppner's private member's bill, introduced in 2009, proposed to exempt hunting rifles and shotguns from the registry. Registry requirements would remain for restricted weapons, such as handguns. Military assault rifles, sniper rifles and submachine guns would continue to be prohibited.

 

 

In October 2010, the bill was killed by an opposition motion, which passed by a slim margin of 153-151. The motion was supported by 75 Liberals, 48 Bloc Quebecois and 30 New Democrats. Two Independent MPs sided with the 143 Conservatives.

 

 

Six NDP MPs broke with their party and voted with the government to scrap the registry. This occurred because NDP leader Jack Layton allowed his caucus to vote their conscience by not "whipping" the vote, or compelling them to vote according to the party line.

 

 

Hoeppner says the government is currently drafting a new piece of legislation, and this time it will be a government bill instead of a private member's bill. The substance of the bill will be similar to her original proposal, the MP for Portage-Lisgar, Man., said.

 

 

"We believe it continues to be a waste of money and resources, and we think there are a lot of better things we can do to fight crime than harassing hunters and farmers and aboriginal people who use their firearms for their everyday living," she said.

 

 

NDP public safety critic Jasbir Sandhu would not say which way his party intends to vote when the long-gun bill comes up, saying the party would examine the legislation before taking a position. He would also not say whether a vote would be whipped.

 

 

Sandhu said the party understands that rural, northern and aboriginal Canadians have legitimate problems with it, and said the gun registry is in need of fixing.

 

 

On the other hand, he said, the party understands police want the registry left alone.

 

 

"We believe it is a valuable tool in combating crime, and we need to arm our law enforcement agencies with tools that can help them do their job better," Sandhu said Tuesday.

 

 

Bruce Hicks, a political scientist at the University of Montreal, said the NDP's large Quebec base is pushing the party to be firmer in its support for gun control.

 

 

He said support for gun control is higher in Quebec than in any other province, in part because two massacres — the Ecole Polytechnique and Dawson College shootings — occurred there.

 

 

"Now that their caucus is so overwhelmingly populated by Quebec members, I tend to think this will decide the issue for them," Hicks said. "They have too much to lose by not being strong on the long-gun registry."

 

 

But he said this position likely will chafe rural MPs such as Northwest Territories MP Dennis Bevington, who voted to scrap the registry last time around.

 

 

Bevington told Postmedia News Tuesday the registry "upsets traditional hunting practices" in aboriginal communities and sometimes imposes unfairly harsh criminal penalties on gun users for minor offences and failure to register.

 

 

Hicks said Layton can't afford to allow much internal disagreement on the issue because he must demonstrate to Canadians he can control his caucus.

 

 

"When you're leader of the Opposition, your ability to control your caucus becomes a test of your competence as leader," he said. "Now that Jack Layton lives at Stornoway, this is something he has to tackle in a way he didn't before."

 

 

Liberal public safety critic Francis Scarpaleggia said the Liberals will oppose any Tory attempt to scrap the registry.

 

 

He said the Liberal caucus would vote unanimously to maintain the registry — a Liberal creation — just like last time the issue came up for voting.

 

 

"We believe it save lives, and is a valuable tool for the police," Scarpaleggia said.

 

 

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Twitter.com/JeffDavisOttawa

 

© Copyright © Postmedia News

[Terry]

in Canada

it ain't over till it's over

 

when it's gone for 6 months I will believe it's gone

[jedimaster]

Would be happy to see it go to save some tax money, but do you think your taxes will go down because of this? I doubt it very much. I'll be happy its gone. I wonder if this will also include scrapping having to record your info down when buying shells at stores.

[quickme]

I know I can google this myself but I figured I'd ask the wise people on the board instead. What I understand is that if you do not have a PAL or FAC now you will not need it after the fall if the bill passes. I use to have a FAC ( back when it was called that) and it has LONG since expired. Would I need to go through the process of re-taking the courses all over again or that is not needed. thank you in advance for your help.

 

 

Nick

[jedimaster]

Yes you will still need a license.

 

As I understand it if you had your FAC converted to a POL your POL will turn into a PAL.

 

If you had your FAC and it expired and you never renewed it you will still need to get you PAL.

[porkpie]

You will still need to get a PAL. The licensing requirement will not be abolished. Terry, the day after the registry falls, all the info will be useless, and we will never see it again. Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice, shame on me.... The Canadian firearms owning public will never register again. Look how many holdouts there are now, 15 years later. The day the registry falls, I am "selling" all my firearms. If there is ever another government foolish enough to try and take on this white elephant again.... I would just buy new guns for hunting!! Non-compliance has been rampant for years with this law, and the Canadian public won't stand it again if its turfed!

[quickme]

Yes you will still need a license.

 

As I understand it if you had your FAC converted to a POL your POL will turn into a PAL.

 

If you had your FAC and it expired and you never renewed it you will still need to get you PAL.

 

 

so its not like the US where all I will need is a Driver's license and a pulse to purchase a gun. Now here is the part i'm confused and maybe the board may not be able to answer. I haven't had a valid FAC for about 10 years now. Guns are with Dad who has a valid license so not worries there is no firearms in my house or possesion. Do you think i would still have to re-take the firearm safety course? I did my course when I was 18 and I'm 35 now so I can't find the actual paper that says i've completed the course.

[RyanT]

I know I can google this myself but I figured I'd ask the wise people on the board instead. What I understand is that if you do not have a PAL or FAC now you will not need it after the fall if the bill passes. I use to have a FAC ( back when it was called that) and it has LONG since expired. Would I need to go through the process of re-taking the courses all over again or that is not needed. thank you in advance for your help.

 

 

Nick

 

 

 

Everyone will still need to have a PAL if they want to possess a firearm... and that is a good thing!

 

I'm not sure about your expired FAC though... best to call the Firearms Center and find out.

 

I think you might just have to pay a License fee but I'm not sure about this... you need to call the Firearms Center. For some reason, I think you just pay a fee now but soon they may be requiring everyone to re-do the courses if it expired years ago. I'm probably remembering this wrong though... you have to call them either way.

Edited July 20, 2011 by RyanT

[Rattletrap2]

Not sure, but I believe you can "challenge" the exam. You will most likely still have to pass the test and wait out the search on your background Mine took almost 4 months, but then again, I closely resemble a once well known terrorist leader who now swims with the fishes!

[quickme]

Not sure, but I believe you can "challenge" the exam. You will most likely still have to pass the test and wait out the search on your background Mine took almost 4 months, but then again, I closely resemble a once well known terrorist leader who now swims with the fishes!

 

 

hahahahahah... thank you all for your replies. I think I'll give them a ring when I'm not at work incase other's think i'm plotting something.

[jedimaster]

You don't need to take the firarms course, you can just take the test. You do need to take the hunters course and can't just challenge the test. As for weather or not you have to take the test. Once your FAC expires you need to take the test unless you have proof of taking the FAC test before. I took the FAC test but never got around to sending in the papers until a few years after they switched to PAL/POL. All I had to do was send in my FAC test certificate. The test is pretty easy, but your best to get the book and do a bit of reading before hand. if your worried about it just take the course. Its not too expensive.

 

But yah you should call the rcmp firearms center to double check.

 

 

hahahahahah... thank you all for your replies. I think I'll give them a ring when I'm not at work incase other's think i'm plotting something.

[jedimaster]

Try calling here and tell them you didn't know things changed and you didn't know your fac expired. Tell them you want to renew your FAC. 1 800 731-4000

Maybe they will sneak in a POL for you that will convert to a PAL once the registry dies.

 

I never understood why the stupid POL's even existed anyway. I mean its ok for someone to have 200 gun's. But its not ok for that guy to buy one? Something doesn seem right there.

[dave524]

The old FAC never had a test for safe handling and knowledge of the law, it was basically a CPIC check for any criminal record, a statement you did not have any mental issues, and a waiting period due to the time it took to process. Any safety tests at that time would have been in the hunting license exam. Competency testing at the federal level began with the POL/PAL. An expired FAC would be pretty much useless for renewing under the POL/PAL system, with the competency testing.

[jedimaster]

There was an FAC test, I still have the little certificate saying I passed the FAC restricted test. I wasn't able to get an RPal though they said if I wanted rpal I had to retake the rpal test. I didn't take the hunting test until a few years after the POL/PAL came into affect.

There was an amnesty for a while that allowed people to convert FAC to PAL and POL.

There are many old links about this but by now most people that had FAC's that expired already have converted to POL's. I am not sure if you can still convert, but they may let you if you play dumb.

 

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=2678

 

 

EDIT

 

On running this through my calculator brain, I took the test when I was 18. I am now 33. this would put my test somewhere around 1995 which is when the whoel thing happened. Maybe I took it right when the PAL/POL came into affect? I could have sworn it was under the FAC though. I guess I could be wrong.

Edited July 20, 2011 by jedimaster

[jedimaster]

Yes there was in fact a 2 day FAC course and test that covered handling. I have confirmed this. I think this was a change in 80's or 90's. The FAC test did count towards the PAL testing requirements that started after bill C-68 in '95. I recall the issue I had is that I lost the certificate and because the test fell under FAC they didn't have records so I had to provide proof from the instructor. I eventually found my certificate of completing the course and test and then once I found it I was able to use it to get my PAL.

[NAW]

Can't wait for the registery to be dropped.

 

Got an old Marlin 30/30 coming my way!

[jedimaster]

Unfortunatly all of mine are registered. I guess I should just "sell" them all before it goes "you know whats up"

[misfish]

Yes there was in fact a 2 day FAC course and test that covered handling. I have confirmed this. I think this was a change in 80's or 90's. The FAC test did count towards the PAL testing requirements that started after bill C-68 in '95. I recall the issue I had is that I lost the certificate and because the test fell under FAC they didn't have records so I had to provide proof from the instructor. I eventually found my certificate of completing the course and test and then once I found it I was able to use it to get my PAL.

 

 

I did the same,so why am I POL guy??????

 

So from what I have read,I will be come a PAL,since im registered as a POL?

[dave524]

Yes there was in fact a 2 day FAC course and test that covered handling. I have confirmed this. I think this was a change in 80's or 90's. The FAC test did count towards the PAL testing requirements that started after bill C-68 in '95. I recall the issue I had is that I lost the certificate and because the test fell under FAC they didn't have records so I had to provide proof from the instructor. I eventually found my certificate of completing the course and test and then once I found it I was able to use it to get my PAL.

 

My mistake, found this to confirm your info

 

"In 1977, Bill C-51 required firearms acquisition certificates (FACs) for the acquisition (but not possession) of all firearms and introduced controls on the selling of ammunition. FAC applicants were required to pass a basic criminal record check before being issued an FAC.

In 1991, Bill C-17 tightened up restrictions and established controls on any firearms that had a military or paramilitary appearance. Legislation also made changes to the FAC system. FAC applicants were now required to pass a firearms safety course, pass a more thorough background check, and wait a minimum of 28 days after applying for an FAC before being issued one. "

 

So yes from 91 to the inception of the POL/PAL in 95 there was testing required for a FAC. I had held a FAC from it's beginning in 77 and restricted weapons from that time too so I guess I was grandfathered from having to do it. Also had an Intructors Certificate from the MNR for the hunting license course in the mid seventies, so they must have figured I knew what I was doing Hadn't taught the course in close to 20 years and moved a few times too, imagine my surprise when the PALs came in and I get a letter from the Minister Of Justice asking me if I was interested in dual cerification, teach both the hunter safety for the Province and the Federal Pal course. Guess they tracked down all the hunter safety people in the province and sent them form letters looking for recruiting them as instructors. Must have got my current address through my outdoors card as I had not done a course in over 15 years. Seems old paperwork never dies, just remember that when they abolish the long gun registry

[jedimaster]

The whole gun situation with licensing is and was always a joke meant purely to appease the bleeding hearts. I think some knowledge and a test is fine and is a good idea but the whole registry and inception of the system was a joke. My cousin had his fac since the 70's and he only got a pol, I took the fac course and never got an fac but filed the pal papers and got my pal. I think as long as you had an fac you can get a pol. There was a period where you could get a pal with you fac but that has long since expired. I think lucked out because they used my fac course as a replacement for the pal course, maybe I just got lucky and slipped through the cracks. I would say if you have a pol your stuck til the registry ends. If you have an expired fac and you took the course and you have the course certificate thingy, you should get a pal(I did) if you have an expired fac with no proof of course or test then if your lucky you may get a pol or possibly nothing. Best thing to do is first look for you course and test papers, then call the number I provided and be very friendly to the person on the other line and play a little dumb.