Rude fishermen infringe on cottage enjoyment

[Terry]

I never fish a dock that has people on it

I never stop and fish if people are swimming......

 

but yeah there are bad fishermen out there that don't give a damn..you can see that at every boat ramp and parking spot, with the garbage and the crap

but why punish everyone for the few that are idiots..

 

and I have seen more then my fair share of stupid crazy home owners ...

 

whether you like it or not I do have the right to fish around your dock, but I have seen the owner come running down to the dock to yell and threaten and throw things at boats fishing around there docks, one guy during a tourney hopped in his cabin cruiser and pushed the bass boat out of his bay, almost drowning a female fisher-person... he was charged..but felt he had every right to do it.

 

I have people who send their kids into the water to help stop us from fishing..how stupid is it to do that to your kids

 

I was fishing a shoreline out from barrie, not docks, an older women 50 feet behind us jumps in the water and swims right at my boat as she gets close an old man on the dock starts yelling at us to get the hell away from where she wants to swim...she culd have swam any direction she wanted but chose to swim right at us and we are the bad guys.......right

 

remember if we want we can show up with 25 boats anchored 10 ft off your shore line and party all wekend long and there is nothing you can do about it, but we are not like many of the ignorant cottagers who really believe they own the lake, so we would not do it

[ctranter]

At no point in my post did I say littering is acceptable.

 

The statement however does lead me to share with you a little insight that might be the key that escapes you.

 

I am pointing out a flaw in your basic logic that is undermining your attempts to have a positive outcome. If I walk into a new bar and say "no one look at the scar on my face" 100% of the people will look and remember I am the man with a scar on my face. If I walk into the same bar and tell the funniest joke in the world they will remember I am a man who has good jokes. Both of them are tags that people have given me one is positive and is pleasing to all, the other one is irritating to me and offensive to them.

I took the time to read your previous posts and they all have undertones that are less than desirable. They rub against the fabric of the forum and project a confrontational attitude that adds little but excites emotions, mostly negative either towards you or the subject matter. This is not an attempt to judge or to criticize you because I have not lived your life this is an outside view of what you are showing the world in this forum. Past people who have gone down this path are rarely here for long....

 

P.M.'s are welcome if you want to discuss the positive aspects of this forum

 

Art

 

I completely understand your point of view... which is exactly why I avoid your scar analogy situation. I don't "run" the lake. Rather I put extra effort into getting to know the visitors. Every single one has been extremely grateful that I, who has the same right to use the lake as anyone else, goes the extra mile to make it a better place. I've made friends, invited them to my cottage for dinners, shared many beers, and raised lots of awareness as a result.

 

The fact is most of these visitors don't intend to be sloppy campers. Take the toilet example, until I told one group of guys that I had the water quality tested, and that fecal bacteria was found in the water, they had no idea that their makeshift toilets were the adding to the problem. Since then, I have noticed far less of these toilets, and far less cleanup. Sometimes a little education can go a long way.

 

I've never met a camper that thought I was controlling over this space, especially when I show good faith and share some free beers with them. Every visitor I get to know has thanked me for my efforts.

 

As for the personal comments, the problem with the internet is that it is very easy to misread comments. I'm not afraid to speak my mind, and I am opinionated, but I in no way take a passive aggressive stance, as you have indicated. I find it somewhat frustrating that I have to justify my positive intentions (keeping the lake clean and maintaining awareness for the cause.

 

If you watched someone poach out of season fish, hunt illegally, or abuse natural resources in another way, (and were 100% sure the MNR would be unable to enforce it) wouldn't you say something to them? How am I any different when it comes to littering my little piece of paradise?

 

Any of you are welcome to visit my lake, the bass fishing is extraordinary.

[aplumma]

I completely understand your point of view... which is exactly why I avoid your scar analogy situation. I don't "run" the lake. Rather I put extra effort into getting to know the visitors. Every single one has been extremely grateful that I, who has the same right to use the lake as anyone else, goes the extra mile to make it a better place. I've made friends, invited them to my cottage for dinners, shared many beers, and raised lots of awareness as a result.

 

The fact is most of these visitors don't intend to be sloppy campers. Take the toilet example, until I told one group of guys that I had the water quality tested, and that fecal bacteria was found in the water, they had no idea that their makeshift toilets were the adding to the problem. Since then, I have noticed far less of these toilets, and far less cleanup. Sometimes a little education can go a long way.

 

I've never met a camper that thought I was controlling over this space, especially when I show good faith and share some free beers with them. Every visitor I get to know has thanked me for my efforts.

 

As for the personal comments, the problem with the internet is that it is very easy to misread comments. I'm not afraid to speak my mind, and I am opinionated, but I in no way take a passive aggressive stance, as you have indicated. I find it somewhat frustrating that I have to justify my positive intentions (keeping the lake clean and maintaining awareness for the cause.

 

If you watched someone poach out of season fish, hunt illegally, or abuse natural resources in another way, (and were 100% sure the MNR would be unable to enforce it) wouldn't you say something to them? How am I any different when it comes to littering my little piece of paradise?

 

Any of you are welcome to visit my lake, the bass fishing is extraordinary.

 

Thanks for clarifying

 

your abbreviated previous posts do not relay the passion in your pursuit for a cleaner lake. They made you seem more of a self appointed dictator. I see that I am wrong and commend you on your passion.

 

 

Art

[fishermccann]

So, the other day I made a big wooden structure and I put it on the road right in front of my house.....The people driving down the street didn,t like it and started giving me crap. Hey its in front of MY house and it cost me lots of money, I don,t get it.(not a true story,but its the attitude of cottage owners)

If you can get a permit, because you need one for a new dock!

[Cookslav]

Personally I think its rude to fish someones dock.

I'm a fisherman and I avoid them out of courtisey, and safety for the owners.

 

Before you jump on me...

I ask you this,

If you fish a dock are you willing to drive in and remove your hook if you snag on their dock posts, or latter, or what have you?

 

I know of a little girl who simply swam at her family dock, and was teathered to the dock by some hooks....

They left their snagged lure below the surface of the dock, and because of their neglegance a sweet 4 year old girl got stitch apon stitch, and needle apon needle who is also now petrified to swim in the lake....

 

People swim at docks...children swim at docks.

Like it has been said there is lots of water to fish, and if you are that hell bent on fishing a dock I only ask that you remember this story when your casting, and be willing to get wet and remove that snagged hook.

If your not, ask yourself why?

Is that Bass you think might be there worth potentially drowning or injuring a child?

 

Put things in perspective and think about it.

Fishing a "vacant" dock is no better then an occupied dock....a bit more stealthy, but the same consequence is in play.

(and no....I don't own a dock)

Edited August 8, 2010 by Cookslav

[Terry]

Personally I think its rude to fish someones dock.

I'm a fisherman and I avoid them out of courtisey, and safety for the owners.

 

Before you jump on me...

I ask you this,

If you fish a dock are you willing to drive in and remove your hook if you snag on their dock posts, or latter, or what have you?

 

I know of a little girl who simply swam at her family dock, and was teathered to the dock by some hooks....

They left their snagged lure below the surface of the dock, and because of their neglegance a sweet 4 year old girl got stitch apon stitch, and needle apon needle who is also now petrified to swim in the lake....

 

People swim at docks...children swim at docks.

Like it has been said there is lots of water to fish, and if you are that hell bent on fishing a dock I only ask that you remember this story when your casting, and be willing to get wet and remove that snagged hook.

If your not, ask yourself why?

Is that Bass you think might be there worth potentially drowning or injuring a child?

 

Put things in perspective and think about it.

Fishing a "vacant" dock is no better then an occupied dock....a bit more stealthy, but the same consequence is in play.

(and no....I don't own a dock)

 

it's easy for someone to say that when you don't want to fish them

 

hell I really respect land owners and spawning fish, so I never ever ever fish rivers or creeks and anyone that does is a ignorant pig who has no respect for land owners or fish populations .......

 

and my kids walk in those streams and come out with 10 or 15 hooks in their feet every time the wade in there in bare feet

clearly I am kidding but it's easy to say because I don't care if they put a ban on stream fishing from shore or wading............

[Radnine]

Ya right! I've fished enough docks with only a handful of complaints. So are the fishermen the bad guys or a handful of cottagers who think they own the lake?

 

First of all, I apologize for my response as it was a little on the harsh side, as well as being judgemental.

I personally don't fish docks, so like Terry points out it is easy for me to come down on the side of the cottagers. Also, I hold cottagers (for the most part) in high regard because I think it is a representation of a level of success in life to which I might aspire. Lots around lakes are sold, cottages are built, and so are docks. It gives me a place to rent and to park my boat, and as far as I am concerned, they are as much a part of the fabric of fishing as a boat is.

If there is one factor that I think might get overlooked in this argument it is that the dock was installed by the cottager, as opposed to a tree falling down to provide structure/cover. If the dock wasn't there where would you fish? I know that the cottager does not own the lake bed that the dock sits on or the water under it, but I think deserves the benefit of the doubt when it is essentially "used" for something for which it was not intended.

I don't own the road in front of my house (or for that matter, the first three feet or so of my lawn) but I darn sure think that I would have the right to tell someone to shove off that decided to throw litter there, or park their car there with the music cranked, etc. I guess I am saying that the investment in the land and the structures on it do give the cottager the upper hand if it were to come down to a pissing contest. And that is perhaps why I don't join the contest in the first place.

Jim

[Cookslav]

it's easy for someone to say that when you don't want to fish them

 

hell I really respect land owners and spawning fish, so I never ever ever fish rivers or creeks and anyone that does is a ignorant pig who has no respect for land owners or fish populations .......

 

and my kids walk in those streams and come out with 10 or 15 hooks in their feet every time the wade in there in bare feet

clearly I am kidding but it's easy to say because I don't care if they put a ban on stream fishing from shore or wading............

 

I don't mean any disrespect Terry, But I think its a different Situation alltogether.

If I sent my Kids down to a creek or trib, to start I wouldn't let them be walking bare foot, and secondly they are wadeing in knee high water. Swimming at a dock is deep water, kids cling to the dock with their hands, feet....bellies

I think its way differnt

Also a trib or creek is not usually the site of a private dwelling, or private recreational swimming area.

Where as a Dock unless posted as a municiple run facitiy is soley private...

Yes the water under and around is public and I'm not debateing that.

I'm debating the morality of putting people in harms way for the sake of catching a fish.

The situation is vastly different in both its common uses and expectation of safe conditions IMO.

 

Being a fisherman or not is inconsequential to the oppinion I hold.

I beleive it is wrong because I've personally seen the damage it can do.

I've fished docks in the past but now that I realize the potential hazzards it poses...

I put my self in those shoe, and walked off a few miles.

I Decided I don't EVER want to be responsible for putting a kid through that, and I can't imagine the guilt I would feel if the act had been the contributing factor in a drowning. Especially when its all for the sake of catching a fish...know what I mean?

No sir I won't do it, and yes I hope everyone who read this at the very least thinks twice about it, and maybe exersisies more of an effort to remove snagged hooks ect...

 

And I ain't call'n nobody a ignorant Pig ....yet

 

Cheers,

[Terry]

and of course everyone has an opinion on these things...I can say 100% I have never left a hook in a dock or near a dock

 

it is 100% legal to fish docks so I will continue to fish them when the feeling moves me... and because I am 100% within the law anyone that tries to stop me or interferes with me is breaking the law .....

 

as I tried to point out in my last post it's legal so leave them alone yell at the law makers

 

if you don't like white bucket fishermen..too bad..leave them alone and try to change the law not the legal fisherman...

 

every other fisherman that doesn't fish the way we do is a pig and only the type of fish I do is real fishing and only my way of fishing doesn't hurt the environment ...this type of thinking has to stop

if we argue amongst ourselves if the issue isn't the same type of fishing we do, how will we ever stand up against all the forces trying to end fishing and hunting..we need to respect all types of legal fishing and hunting

[cram]

and of course everyone has an opinion on these things...I can say 100% I have never left a hook in a dock or near a dock

 

it is 100% legal to fish docks so I will continue to fish them when the feeling moves me... and because I am 100% within the law anyone that tries to stop me or interferes with me is breaking the law .....

 

as I tried to point out in my last post it's legal so leave them alone yell at the law makers

 

if you don't like white bucket fishermen..too bad..leave them alone and try to change the law not the legal fisherman...

 

every other fisherman that doesn't fish the way we do is a pig and only the type of fish I do is real fishing and only my way of fishing doesn't hurt the environment ...this type of thinking has to stop

if we argue amongst ourselves if the issue isn't the same type of fishing we do, how will we ever stand up against all the forces trying to end fishing and hunting..we need to respect all types of legal fishing and hunting

 

Also "legal" for paparazzis to follow celebrities around or park out in front of their house at the hope of catching a picture. Sometimes being "legal" doesn't make something right.

 

I love fishing, love the structure offered by docks, but i won't ever fish other cottager's docks. I suspect most of those who own cottages (and many who don't) feel the same way.

 

And, just remember -- for every hothead cottager who actually comes down and acts like an ass yelling at you (which i also don't agree with) there are 10 non-hotheads who just shake their head and think "another jerk fisherman".

[Terry]

and if you want to become an actor you know that paparazzi will follow you everywhere and you except that as part of being a celebrity and if they break the law they will be charged but if the actor assaults them then they will be charged...as will cottagers......it has nothing to do with respect or lack of respect when it comes to docks...they are open game they are legal and if you want to live on the water you will learn to live with it or move.......

 

and at this point in the game I will have any home owner that harasses me while legally fishing charged under federal law that protects fishermen ...and we will continue to disagree on this subject

[Cookslav]

if we argue amongst ourselves if the issue isn't the same type of fishing we do, how will we ever stand up against all the forces trying to end fishing and hunting..we need to respect all types of legal fishing and hunting

 

Agreed....legally speaking.

I'm just not on the same "etiquette" page when it comes to fishing someones dock

[cram]

and if you want to become an actor you know that paparazzi will follow you everywhere and you except that as part of being a celebrity

 

yeah but i still think paparazzis should find something more noble to do with their lives.

 

and at this point in the game I will have any home owner that harasses me while legally fishing charged under federal law that protects fishermen ...and we will continue to disagree on this subject

 

Like i said, 90+ % of people (including me) aren't going to say anything. Doesn't mean you're not being rude. B

[Blue Lk]

I live on the lake & sometimes watch people trying to unsnag their lines from my waterline,I say nothing(as stated several times in this thread,I do not own the water)

I am also a fisherman,but I would give it up before I fished somebodys dock.Yes they hold fish,but I prefer to find my own natural structure.

[fish-miester]

I love this site!

moral of the story here.. both parties have there sides.. cottage owners want there personal space as well as there docks clean and hook free. and well us anglers want to fish structure. and well this is where the cottager and the angler clash. both have the privilege. tho no one is in the right or wrong..

 

First off I find that dock owners treat the weekend warrior/av joe much better then the guys in the fancy dancy Bassboats the lakes I fish anyways no matter where/what I am fishing.

 

do I believe its wrong to fish docks. no not at all...and well I love flipping/pitching/skipping a dock, its actually one of my favorite techniques and have caught some great fish. tho its not my only technique I use. but when I do, I have my own personal guideline I use.

 

- when I pull up to a dock I first check for people any where in/near the water.(if so I pass up the dock. if not i continue)

- when I plan to make my F/P/S I never half it as I dont want the lure to go astray to cause any grief.

- then If there is a boat tied up I 99.9% of the time only throw a texas rigged soft plastic in respect to the persons property (no scratches etc) if no boat I'll throw a jig or anything else.

-if there are excessive ropes,wires or home made "lure catchers"(for example pieces of ply wood tied to the dock with screws all over them) etc hanging off the dock I will either pass up this dock or i will fish the outskirts of the dock.

- In the case I do get snagged I give it 110% to get that lure back.

(A- For the safety of the people using the dock. swimming around or dissembling a dock (B- because $7 jigs can really add up!

In the past I have been known to get out of my boat and search for my lure tho the only lures I have ever lost to a dock are those that I skip 3/4 up to the back of the dock not knowing that there is a cross beam/rope or other obstacle waiting for my innocent lure. In this case I try my hardest to retrieve the lure. and well sometimes its just not possible. in that case I try my hardest to tell the owner. and well I have had them freak out on me but normally my reply is "wouldnt you rather be warned of this instead of finding out another way"

(as well that its not likely a place one would be swimming (aprox 1.5' underwater under the back of a dock..)

 

other then that I try my best to respect the property owners/renters and if am asked to leave I do so. as well as always reply with yes sir/ma'am and alot of the times after pulling the nice guy they actually apologize for being rude and some have even told me not to leave. but I normally do anyways.

 

-As for the cottager, I can understand the fact that they want there privacy as well a lure free/safe dock for there family and or friends to enjoy. and If your really dont want people fishing around it the best thing I can say is to (A- Be Polite (ask them to respect your dock, and retrieve all snags, whether you say it in person or attach a sign to the end of the dock. or put out some "noodle bouys and close off the side of your dock.) this will help confrontation with those who fish docks. much better then storming down to the water front to catch the angler off guard and continue to harass him or her in various ways..(meanwhile your beer is getting warm)

as well keep in mind you and the angler are just trying to enjoy yourselves on your day/s off.. just in different ways. whether you see it that way or not..and your just wrecking it for yourselves by confronting each other. (no need to huff and puff)

(tho there are some who live for confrontation so who knows you might be makeing there day.. but thats another story..)

some one fishing a dock regularly only makes about 4 Casts/flips max. then moves on. its not like he or she is setting up camp at the end of your dock for to wreck your weekend. (just relax it will be over soon)

 

other then that I cant stress enough Be polite and respectful. If you want/like to flip docks practice at home or on your own dock. (clip off the hook on a jig and pitch under couches. use card board boxes or if you think your that good glasses/cups and if you think your a reel pro try an old shot glass! then after you have done your time practicing go try it out. and I guarantee you'll be better! which means shorter/more productive fishing time around a single dock. which can lead to less head aches from both you the angler and the dock owner.

 

Just My Two Cents.

-Alex

[jbailey]

what about the cottagers who blatently fly by you at 30-40km damn well knowing you're trying to fish. I was recently at Six Mile Lake and it was ridiculous. People in there boats bombing around with no respect for people trying to fish. They came so close so many times, and would even come into the small back bays and rip around on there jetskis.

I don't mind sharing the water as long as they share it with me!

[fishermccann]

what about the cottagers who blatently fly by you at 30-40km damn well knowing you're trying to fish. I was recently at Six Mile Lake and it was ridiculous. People in there boats bombing around with no respect for people trying to fish. They came so close so many times, and would even come into the small back bays and rip around on there jetskis.

I don't mind sharing the water as long as they share it with me!

To you that means not even being there, because when they use a PWC or water ski you need to be going fast! They can use the water as well , just not so close. I have a cottage on a popular Kawarthas lake, does that mean we cant use it when fisherpeople are out. I fish 4 hrs a day 8-10 am and 8-10 pm. no traffic then.. Edited August 8, 2010 by fishermccann

[fish-miester]

what about the cottagers who blatently fly by you at 30-40km damn well knowing you're trying to fish. I was recently at Six Mile Lake and it was ridiculous. People in there boats bombing around with no respect for people trying to fish. They came so close so many times, and would even come into the small back bays and rip around on there jetskis.

I don't mind sharing the water as long as they share it with me!

 

 

honestly I dont even know what to say about "those guys".. they are rude and have no common sense / respect for others safety. I have read/heard way to many "close calls" whether they are fishing or not it is straight up dangerous to operate a PWC within close range of others for the safety of both parties! I guess I am just lucky that for the most part I havnt really had to deal with them nearly as much as others have to.

[fishinguypat]

hey its not our fault they the best fishing spots are near their cottages...

[Radnine]

hey its not our fault they the best fishing spots are near their cottages...

 

 

Would any one of "us" not be "them" if we could afford it?

Jim

[otter649]

Good chance where the fisherman has parked his vehicle/trailer & launched his boat

for free - The cottagers' taxes or cottage association fees have helped pay for the

maintenace and upkeep of parking & launch not to mention cottager cleanups from time to time.

This happens on my lake although I have no problem with fishermen fishing my dock &

others although more bass boats are showing up on the lake since the LMB moved into

the lake about ten years ago so probably only a matter of time till dock visitors start

to show up..........

[Guest Johnny Bass]

and if you want to become an actor you know that paparazzi will follow you everywhere and you except that as part of being a celebrity and if they break the law they will be charged but if the actor assaults them then they will be charged...as will cottagers......it has nothing to do with respect or lack of respect when it comes to docks...they are open game they are legal and if you want to live on the water you will learn to live with it or move.......

 

and at this point in the game I will have any home owner that harasses me while legally fishing charged under federal law that protects fishermen ...and we will continue to disagree on this subject

 

Exactly.

 

They talk about rude fishermen?

 

I once was fishing this shoreline. I see these people talking, and they hop in a boat and start flying by on jet skies. I leave. They get off the water. I come back? I see them AGAIN come out with the jet skies. I leave. They get off the water. I go back and AGAIN they come out and start their crap. This was on the trent river too and they made big wakes, so you were pretty much stuck where ever you go.

 

What do you do? Cast at them like one of the cottage owners suggested? Threaten them and get charged?

 

Unfortunately they have the right to be the idiots that they are. And if these cottage owners have the right to ruin my fishing, I have the right to fish their docks!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Would any one of "us" not be "them" if we could afford it?

Jim

 

Absolutely not! That would make us hypocrites!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

First of all, I apologize for my response as it was a little on the harsh side, as well as being judgemental.

I personally don't fish docks, so like Terry points out it is easy for me to come down on the side of the cottagers. Also, I hold cottagers (for the most part) in high regard because I think it is a representation of a level of success in life to which I might aspire. Lots around lakes are sold, cottages are built, and so are docks. It gives me a place to rent and to park my boat, and as far as I am concerned, they are as much a part of the fabric of fishing as a boat is.

If there is one factor that I think might get overlooked in this argument it is that the dock was installed by the cottager, as opposed to a tree falling down to provide structure/cover. If the dock wasn't there where would you fish? I know that the cottager does not own the lake bed that the dock sits on or the water under it, but I think deserves the benefit of the doubt when it is essentially "used" for something for which it was not intended.

I don't own the road in front of my house (or for that matter, the first three feet or so of my lawn) but I darn sure think that I would have the right to tell someone to shove off that decided to throw litter there, or park their car there with the music cranked, etc. I guess I am saying that the investment in the land and the structures on it do give the cottager the upper hand if it were to come down to a pissing contest. And that is perhaps why I don't join the contest in the first place.

Jim

 

You hold them in high regard, and I see them as normal people. Just because they have more money, doesn't give them more rights than me.

 

If the dock wasn't there the fish would find NATURAL structure in the lake.

 

Actually if someone parked in front of your house before dark and blasted music. You couldn't say squat. Unless he was on your property.

 

The cottage owner has absolutely no upper hand in regards to access to our water ways.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Johnny Bass

[cram]

You hold them in high regard, and I see them as normal people. Just because they have more money, doesn't give them more rights than me.

 

If the dock was there the fish would find NATURAL structure in the lake.

 

Actually if someone parked in front of your house before dark and blasted music. You couldn't say squat. Unless he was on your property.

 

The cottage owner has absolutely no upper hand in regards to access to our water ways.

 

Don't think this thread is about legal rights, but what's rude and not rude.