Coyote grabs Pomeranian in Pickering area.

[Syn]

Are you sure about that, just called a place that's selling them over the counter, I still have both of mine.

 

 

Sure you can find it in store but the ASP is a grey item. I can go downtown and buy brass knuckles (prohibited) even seen them in store windows in the past.

Since its not a spring loaded baton you can buy it legally, but many reputable security stores that sell batons ask for ID, security lic and proof you took the baton course or they won't sell you it.

 

The baton you have is not prohibited because its not spring loaded, so they can sell it legally.

 

"13. The device commonly known as a “Kiyoga Baton” or “Steel Cobra” and any similar device consisting of a manually triggered telescoping spring-loaded steel whip terminated in a heavy calibre striking tip." http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/regu/sor-...sor-98-462.html

 

BUT

 

all it takes is a person seeing you with it (while walking your dog), who calls the cops and you can get yourself in trouble quickly. For example: If the police want to they can charge you with carrying a concealed weapon. Now you may go to court and get acquitted but you would have spent your time and money with a lawyer if you aren't one.

 

Because you live far away from Toronto and the many crazy people we have here probably those you see while walking your dog and know you wouldn't bother you, knowing you carry a baton. I'd bet the local police would not even bother you about it. But sometimes all it takes is a cop in bad mood to find yourself arrested then the'll just drop the charges later after you've been stressing out for a few weeks.

 

Yes I carried a baton only after taking the baton course and only during work. We were told if you pull that baton out at work for example to threaten teenagers to leave (bad idea), you would be charged with assault.

 

If it was totally OK, many people would be caring a baton, although many people (esp homeless) find a knife to be more practical to carry around.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Syn

[Fisherman]

Okay, I've still got my old instructor card, but I guess the rest will have to carry a Louisville slugger with a small T handle on the end to make it look like a cane..

[mikeh]

the closest I've seen them in Toronto is in Bluffer's Park in Scarborough and a couple of days ago at 401/Allen Expressway near the ramp walking in the grassy area. Time to thin out the herd .

[irishfield]

open your pool for god sakes it's July!!!!

 

You wanna take care of it... since I'm not usually there from ~ May 12th 'till the end of September...

[Whitespinnerbait]

Is this what a Coyote looks like...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly officer he attacked my car....

[fishinfool]

Is this what a Coyote looks like...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly officer he attacked my car....

 

Yup, that'd be a Yote! cept the back legs are usually pointing the other direction. lol

[Paully]

a couple of days ago at 401/Allen Expressway near the ramp walking in the grassy area.

 

A buddy of mine told me about one he saw right in the same spot... this was a few months ago.

Probably the same one...

Edited March 4, 2010 by Shore_Lunch

[Dara]

when walking your dog you should ALWAYS have a knife, walking stick, or an ASP baton to deal with other dogs and possibly coyotes. even steel toed boots will help when it comes to canines getting into a scuffle.

 

it seems like whenever you hear about this kinda thing the humans just kinda stand back and "watch in horror" as their best little buddy is getting ripped apart. MAN UP and get in there to help your dog. i know for a fact that my two dogs would be there to help me if i was getting attacked so i'd sure as hell help them. eastern coyotes are usually 40-50lbs so they are quite small. the ones you have to worry about are "coydogs" which are the offspring from a coyote breeding with a domestic dog. they can grow larger and show less fear of humans.

 

before anyone starts...no im not an armchair warrior. ive been in the middle of some nasty dog fights and wouldnt hesitate if a couple yotes were feeling brave.

 

that said...i dont like really small dogs and wouldnt hold a grudge against the yotes that took out that rat dog

 

 

A dog fight is a bit different than a yote fight. They are a wild animal and can be very mean. I had an oportunity last fall where I put a bullet in one. It was down but not dead. My buddy poked it with a stick to see just how hurt it was. I ain't ever seen nothing meaner and there is no way I would step in there to save my dog unless I had a gun with me.

[FishinNanna]

When they were bringing in the gun registration, we got rid of all that we had (not that we had alot, but certainly something to keep one of these at bay). Now I'm quite concerned and wish I still had a 22. I'm a little concerned about going for walks on the country road!

[ch312]

Just FYI Asp batons as you refer to them are considered a Restricted Weapon in Ontario, pretty hefty fine/charge if you get caught with it.

 

I don't blame people for not getting involved. It is only an animal after all and as upsetting as it maybe I'd hate to see a human harmed or killed because they tried to intervene physically.

 

well...just an FYI, spring load batons are prohibited while the ones you flick the wrist are 100% legal providing they are never concealed. the baton/holster must be visible at all times or a concealed weapon could come into play. these batons must not be taken lightly as they can kill humans quite easily. for an attacking dog id go for the ribs first and then the head.

 

there are different parts of the body that you whack depending on the threat level...

[ch312]

Sure you can find it in store but the ASP is a grey item.

 

no it isn't. the baton is either concealed or its not. its either a spring loaded one or not. there are no gray area's when it comes to defining this weapon as prohibited or concealed...one or the other.

 

all it takes is a person seeing you with it (while walking your dog), who calls the cops and you can get yourself in trouble quickly. For example: If the police want to they can charge you with carrying a concealed weapon. Now you may go to court and get acquitted but you would have spent your time and money with a lawyer if you aren't one.

 

like i mentioned in my previous post before reading your reply. if the baton and holster are 100% visible it is not possible for you to get nailed with concealed weapon. as long as you use it for dog defense the cops cant do squat.

[bigfish1965]

well...just an FYI, spring load batons are prohibited while the ones you flick the wrist are 100% legal providing they are never concealed. the baton/holster must be visible at all times or a concealed weapon could come into play. these batons must not be taken lightly as they can kill humans quite easily. for an attacking dog id go for the ribs first and then the head.

 

there are different parts of the body that you whack depending on the threat level...

 

I am guessing you put up the wrong image which is why I editted it out. This thread is about coyotes, not whacking people with a baton.

 

Pepper spray is a very effective tool. I had a childs aluminum bat as my defense when the coyote went after my dogs. the trick is to get them apart without getting bit!!

[MuskyGreenHorn]

Seriously, when are people ever going to learn that we can't control nature. Respect it. Rick probably knows more than anyone else who has posted on this topic. Take the guys Advice. I see coyotes all the time where I live and here them every other night. they only nail he farmers herds who don't have dogs (big dogs) or a Donkey or Lama. The population is at an all time high, guess what happens next, a crash. I bet we'll hear a bunch of people complaining about too many deer and not enough coyotes to eat them in about 4-5 years. Seriously, if you want to walk rat dogs in the dark or near habitat, use your head, and I love all the stories about the one sthat were off the leash. Right, smart idea. And what is teh deal with cops dealing with this, shoudln't a wildlife person like a CO take care of this, go do some real police work. Take some money out of the police budget to hire more COs already.

 

I saw a young lady carrying a pomeranian while i was looking at musky baits in bass pro a couple of years back. i was so close to asking her where she found the live bait.

[pikehunter]

Best defense....get a road runner. Beep beep.

[Syn]

no it isn't. the baton is either concealed or its not. its either a spring loaded one or not. there are no gray area's when it comes to defining this weapon as prohibited or concealed...one or the other.

 

Its my fault for not being 100% clear. "grey" is a sales term, it has nothing to do with prohibited by law or not. The baton (non prohibited version) is a grey market item. (edit: there are different versions to the exact definition of "grey market" depending on the item to be purchased but the point is "grey" has nothing to do with prohibited/non prohibited and everything to do with sales). "grey" 100% legal to sell, but government and police are making it harder for you to buy it by cutting supply in some areas (especially crime ridden).

 

The spring loaded baton black market item. For example: In my area we had a variety store that sold lotto tickets/food/ sweaters and hats. He also had a glass case full of knives, batons and other edged weapons, and fighting sticks (which i still have). I came back months later all that was gone. Why? Owner told me cops came and basically harassed him into not selling it any more. Told him about teenagers buying and committing crimes in the area, school stabbings, etc. He could have told the cops off but he probably weighed the pros and cons and decided not to sell anymore. I'm finding government and the police being more restrictive in how easily the general public buys weapons.

 

edit: exact same thing in the airsoft market (over 18). The guns look so real and have been used in holdups. They are legal to sell provided you have the proper licenses but police and government would rather not see them being sold so readily and openly especially in the city.

 

Here is what I wrote:

 

"Sure you can find it in store but the ASP is a grey item. I can go downtown and buy brass knuckles (prohibited) even seen them in store windows in the past.

Since its not a spring loaded baton you can buy it legally, but many reputable security stores that sell batons ask for ID, security lic and proof you took the baton course or they won't sell you it.

 

The baton you have is not prohibited because its not spring loaded, so they can sell it legally."

 

 

 

 

 

 

like i mentioned in my previous post before reading your reply. if the baton and holster are 100% visible it is not possible for you to get nailed with concealed weapon. as long as you use it for dog defense the cops cant do squat.

 

 

 

"if the baton and holster are 100% visible it is not possible for you to get nailed with concealed weapon. as long as you use it for dog defense the cops cant do squat."

 

 

You can be charged with other offenses and it will depend on the officer and on which part of Ontario you get stopped by police with your baton. There is no way I'm going to walk around with a visible baton. To get to my local park I have to walk 5 minutes down a sidewalk passing kids going to school, people waiting for the bus with a baton. My park (humber river) has had rapes committed with the use of weapons in the past and there is a conservation and real police officers roaming the asphalt trail.

 

one example in the tread from blue line forum http://forums.blueline.ca/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2225

 

"If I found someone carrying an ASP baton, I would definitely lay a charge under 88.(1) of the CC, Possession of Weapon for Dangerous Purpose.

 

The elements of the offence are proof of possession, and that the purpose of possession was one dangerous to the public peace. With an ASP baton, there is little doubt what you a carrying it for, to hit someone with it. With the singular use of the ASP, I would argue that the only reason for carrying it would be for a purpose dangerous to public peace.

 

The annontations, state that the section does not prevent someone from arming themselves for self protection, that an offence is not committed under this section if the accused is carrying an appropriate instrument to lawfully repel a reasonable attack, and that the accused is competent to handle the weapon, and is likely to use it responsibly.

 

The charge would probably go to trial, but a reasonably competent crown should be able to illustrate the training necessary for police to be able to carry the baton, and talk about the no hit areas such as the head, spine etc. If the accused does not have specific training in the ASP, it could be argued that the accused is not competent in handling it, and thus committed an offence.

 

It should be noted that a conviction under this section can bring a weapons prohibition order. " Post by Grum "N" division, on horseback

 

 

So you see, you can still be charged. Cop could just give you a speech and say bye. Or charges are dropped immediately or could go to trial.

You will say you were going to use it to to repel against coyotes and the officer and crown will argue about you baton certification, the specific use of a baton (not recognized and marketed as a wild animal defense), how many coyotes you have defended against in the past and even that a baton is a poor weapon of choice against wild animals because the baton is so short you have to get in really close to strike.

 

You will argue it was for self defense, crown will argue you were being dangerous to public peace especially if some one had called to complain and people to being intimidated by you and seeing the baton.

 

 

 

edit: I'll be seeing an officer later this week (family) so I'll bring it up. Please do the same with an officer in your area. I would not be surprised if we get different answers because there is no such thing as 100% consistency in application of the law.

 

In the end I still think a baton is not a very good choice for wild animal defense. If it were 100% guaranteed not to get charged, I would carry a walking stick sword for wild animal defense because its lighter to swing and has twice the reach of a baton and its sharp. but if it were legal to carry around a sword then I'd upgrade to an AK-47.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Syn