Gun registry

[irishfield]

I think that last front brought winternet to OFC....

[Dara]

ummmm....

 

lets see now.... u don;t want to compare a licencing agency with another licenscing agency..... what's the problem with that?

 

As a devout "you people"....i certainly do care about how the gov burns thru cash...... but all i ever hear is how bad and bungled up it is.... but i never hear about a SOLUTION ....

 

Where I come from... we provide solutions.... and since I don;t own guns, but some of my family does,,, I obviously don;t have the experience to come up with a solution for a gun registry...

 

But i also don't call gun owner's red necks either..... because not all of them are

 

 

you gotta license your dog..how bout registering each bowl of food it eats..then they would have a better idea how big it is. I don't drive a gun on the road...i carry it. its 2 entirely different things. You are just trying to justify registration by comparing it to a car.

 

the solution is just license the gun owners..such as was done for years...why push it so far for no rel gain.

 

Do you really see any gain?

[splashhopper]

you gotta license your dog..how bout registering each bowl of food it eats..then they would have a better idea how big it is. I don't drive a gun on the road...i carry it. its 2 entirely different things. You are just trying to justify registration by comparing it to a car.

 

the solution is just license the gun owners..such as was done for years...why push it so far for no rel gain.

 

Do you really see any gain?

I am not trying to justify anything...

I just don;t buy the argument that the gun registry, in theory, is a bad thing

 

What is the solution to the stolen gun problems out there?

 

Or the import of illegal guns for that matter?

 

At least there is an attempt at keeping track of the legal ones.

 

 

I am gonna sleep on it now....

Maybe I can dream something up for ya..

Edited December 17, 2009 by splashhopper

[Fishnwire]

First off, a gun isn't inherently dangerous, any more than a car or a knife are. You don't need a license to operate a butcher knife, and you don't have to register each one you own.

 

Come on Dara, you're smarter than that. Of course a gun is inherently dangerous. Its a gun. You do understand that their pmiary function is to kill living things, right? Without question guns are more dangerous than knives. There are probably a lot more knives in Canada than guns, but which is responsible for more deaths and serious injuries each year? Would you rather face off an intruder armed with a knife, or a gun? You come at me with a knife and you're going to have to get close up enough for me to fight back, and I will. I might still go down, but I'm going to make it messy and noisy and drag it out as long as possible, and it's not going to be as easy as just squeezing a trigger. If he's not bigger and faster than me I have a chance...you cannot say the same about a gun. Absolutely guns are dangerous and trying to suggest otherwise is sheer lunacy. If you don't realize firearms are dangerous, you should probably be prevented from owning them. Are you telling me they don't teach that guns are dangerous in hunter-safety and PAL classes? You'd think that would be lesson one.

 

Second, registering guns has nothing to do with licensing a person to own and handle a gun.

 

You're right. That is needed aswell. The advantage of also having all guns registered is that forces an increased level of accountability on the owners. They need to know the whereabouts of their firearms at all times, and that they are safely stored. No more leaving old guns under the bed at camp or elsewhere for anyone to find or some such behavior. What about the example given in this thread? I'm sure he wouldn't have, but if the owner of the lost gun knew it wasn't registered and couldn't be traced back to him, he might not have bothered to report it lost. The thing is, like I said, owning firearms is a privelegde that most of us can enjoy if we desire. Being asked to simply register whatever firearms we wish to own, and therefore take responsibilty for, is not asking a lot. That goes for even "every little 22 you own".

 

 

You didn't actually address how being asked to register whatever firearms you choose to own is being "pushed around" whereas being asked to register your motor vehicles is not.

[Dara]

Come on Dara, you're smarter than that. Of course a gun is inherently dangerous. Its a gun. You do understand that their pmiary function is to kill living things, right? Without question guns are more dangerous than knives. There are probably a lot more knives in Canada than guns, but which is responsible for more deaths and serious injuries each year? Would you rather face off an intruder armed with a knife, or a gun? You come at me with a knife and you're going to have to get close up enough for me to fight back, and I will. I might still go down, but I'm going to make it messy and noisy and drag it out as long as possible, and it's not going to be as easy as just squeezing a trigger. If he's not bigger and faster than me I have a chance...you cannot say the same about a gun. Absolutely guns are dangerous and trying to suggest otherwise is sheer lunacy. If you don't realize firearms are dangerous, you should probably be prevented from owning them. Are you telling me they don't teach that guns are dangerous in hunter-safety and PAL classes? You'd think that would be lesson one.

 

 

 

You're right. That is needed aswell. The advantage of also having all guns registered is that forces an increased level of accountability on the owners. They need to know the whereabouts of their firearms at all times, and that they are safely stored. No more leaving old guns under the bed at camp or elsewhere for anyone to find or some such behavior. What about the example given in this thread? I'm sure he wouldn't have, but if the owner of the lost gun knew it wasn't registered and couldn't be traced back to him, he might not have bothered to report it lost. The thing is, like I said, owning firearms is a privelegde that most of us can enjoy if we desire. Being asked to simply register whatever firearms we wish to own, and therefore take responsibilty for, is not asking a lot. That goes for even "every little 22 you own".

 

 

You didn't actually address how being asked to register whatever firearms you choose to own is being "pushed around" whereas being asked to register your motor vehicles is not.

 

 

I'm noy buying it. its excessive. the person is dangerous, not the weapon. look at in the UK where guns are illegal. they are all turning to knives now.

There are safe storage laws. You can't leave a gun laying around.

 

how bout some judges enforcing laws that we have. there was a guy up here last year that got busted during a search warrant with a loaded unregistered and him unlicensed pistol under his pillow and some cocaine.

He got a $500.00 fine for the cocaine and a $400.00 fine for the gun charges.

Show me some enforcement and I will register my guns. my friend mistakenly allowed his license to expire and he had to get me to hold his guns or have the police pick them up till he got it renewed or he would have been charged.

 

I just don't buy all the junk for honest people. its like 2 sets of rules

[irishfield]

Sure glad that vehicles are registered!

 

According to Statistics, Facts and Quotes there were 30,694 gun-related deaths in the US in 2005 vs Fatal Car Accident, Crash Statistics: Stats Auto, Traffic, Car, Collision, Traffic showing 43,443 vehicular fatalties that same year. So guns overall are about 71% as deadly as vehicles in the US.

 

As for what's responsible for more deaths.. knives or guns..

 

Stabbings are the most common form of murder in Britain, where firearms — except certain shotguns and sporting rifles — are outlawed. Most police officers in Britain do not carry firearms.

 

Of the 839 homicides in England and Wales in the 12 months ending Nov. 28 — the most recent period for which Home Office figures are available — 29% involved sharp instruments including knives, blades and swords. Firearms account for just 9% of murders in Britain.

 

..and Canada gun crime comes in last..

 

The vast majority of violent crime in Canada is not committed with a firearm. According to 2006 data reported by police to the UCR Survey, most violent crime (75%) was committed by physical force or threats, without the use of any weapon. Weapons were used against 18% of victims of violent crimes, with knives (6.2%) and clubs or blunt instruments (3.0%) being the most common. A firearm was used against 2.4% of all victims (Table 1).

[richyb]

How many hunting firearms ( long guns) are used in crime? how many restricted weapons? ( hand guns, fully auto). They are 2 different registrations and the long gun registry is a waste of time. I dont near of many bank robbers going in , pulling a scoped 30-06 out of the leg of their pants and holding up the place.

 

The registration is being scrapped. I have heard that there are 3 voting sessions going on. 2 have already happend and voted to scrap it. All it needs it the 3rd one to vote scrap and its history.

 

Hunting is one of the safest sports to do. More people likely die playing hockey than get shot while hunting. HUNTERS are educated and respect what a firearm can do.

[blarg]

"Some good"

 

So, the registry folks made it easier to comply with a law and system that has never done any good, wasted more than a billion, and pandered to soccer moms that simply don't know any better, how excellent, I have dealt with them before, without issue, and that changes...nothing.

[Fishnwire]

I'm noy buying it. its excessive. the person is dangerous, not the weapon. look at in the UK where guns are illegal. they are all turning to knives now.

 

Yes, but as we've proved, knives are less dangerous than guns. Are you telling me, given the choice, you wouldn't prefer to face someone intent on harming you armed with a knife than a gun? Of course you would...any clear thinking idividual would feel the same way. The fact that these people have to "turn to knives" proves that efforts are working to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Seems like a success story to me.

 

There are safe storage laws. You can't leave a gun laying around.

 

I understand that. They are important. But the point that I'm trying to make which you seem to be ignoring is that If guns are laying around wich are not registered to a particular individual, who is responsible that those safe storage laws are adhered to? If those laws are not followed and a gun finds it ways into the hands of some kids that are hurt for example, wouldn't it be nice to be able to trace it back to the owner that failed to properly store the weapon? Without registraton the owner may be able to aviod being determined, or at least possibly be able to deny ownership.

[irishfield]

Yes, but as we've proved, knives are less dangerous than guns. Are you telling me, given the choice, you wouldn't prefer to face someone intent on harming you armed with a knife than a gun? Of course you would...any clear thinking idividual would feel the same way. The fact that these people have to "turn to knives" proves that efforts are working to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Seems like a success story to me.

 

You've proved WHERE. Read the statistics I posted, pre registry full swing, for Canada. Knives account for more than guns.. guns are last for violent crime!.. and I bet a VERY small percentage,, if any, of those were registered.

Edited December 17, 2009 by irishfield

[Bernie]

Got to agree the registry is a colossal waste of time and money.

Criminals that want guns can get them easily unregistered.

Handguns have long been required to be registered.

Long guns used for sport are used just for that purpose. In non urban areas a larger percentage of people have guns than not.

I also have police friends and around here they tell me that they always treat every situation as if there are firearms there anyway.

There is no way to know for sure is there?

So it's mostly baloney what you are hearing.

All the money wasted could have been used for more policing, or healthcare, bet more lives would have been saved doing that.

[muskymike]

There are probably a lot more knives in Canada than guns, but which is responsible for more deaths and serious injuries each year? Would you rather face off an intruder armed with a knife, or a gun?

 

Statistics can be spun whichever way the statistician wants them to be.

 

So lets try wording this a little different.

 

There are probably a lot more knives in Canada than guns.

 

Which is responsible for more deaths?

 

If someone stabbed someone in the head or shot them in the head?

If someone stabbed someone in the chest, or shot them in the chest?

and so on...

 

Just because guns are the weapon of choice for killing people, it does not necessarily mean more deaths are to blame from a gun COMPARED to knives.

 

It simply means guns are more often used to kill people than knives. They are equally as dangerous put in any given scenario.

 

Someone could argue that a kid has more of a chance of getting hurt/killed with a knife then with a gun. Only if the child doesnt have access to a gun.

 

Do you see my point? This wasnt the greatest of arguments.

[waterwolf]

a piece o' gum in a dyke mentality. after hunting a property for 3 years the landowner aske me "what should i do here"? he opened a door to room where he safely stored his hunting rifles .maybe a dozen hand-me-downs. nothing representing arms for a small militia.how many guys were in the same boat , terrified the LAW would come and snatch them off their farms because of uncle ED'S 12 gauge. so many guns will be hidden away and never see an RCMP stamp.

 

 

and why should they? farmers ,land-plot owners and licensed hunters are far from the target group that

endangers our society.

 

 

billions spent,, innocent , law abiders shouldn't have to loose family keep-sakes out of fear when criminals

enjoy the fruits illegal guns provide

 

long guns are not the problem.

[Chris]

Good bye to the gun registry and good riddance....and the lefties can whine all they want.

[Dara]

Yes, but as we've proved, knives are less dangerous than guns. Are you telling me, given the choice, you wouldn't prefer to face someone intent on harming you armed with a knife than a gun? Of course you would...any clear thinking idividual would feel the same way. The fact that these people have to "turn to knives" proves that efforts are working to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Seems like a success story to me.

 

 

 

I understand that. They are important. But the point that I'm trying to make which you seem to be ignoring is that If guns are laying around wich are not registered to a particular individual, who is responsible that those safe storage laws are adhered to? If those laws are not followed and a gun finds it ways into the hands of some kids that are hurt for example, wouldn't it be nice to be able to trace it back to the owner that failed to properly store the weapon? Without registraton the owner may be able to aviod being determined, or at least possibly be able to deny ownership.

 

 

Thats a heck of an

'if" to spend 2 billion dollars on. And when you find out who the kid stole the gun from, what are you going to do about it, put him in jail for 20 years for unsafe storage causing death...they don't even do that for drunk driving causing death.

Any decent cop would be able to figure out where the long gun came from anyway.

 

I would rather face a criminal with a gun in my hands...but my guns aren't for home defense, and they are locked up, so I guess I gotta go at the pistol toting criminal with a baseball bat. He better hope his aim is goot cause one wack with this hardwood and he is a gonner. You tell me that you will keep his gun away from him and I will gladly register mine

[Guest gbfisher]

You better register that baseball bat.....and lock it up.

 

 

Someone might get hurt.

[smally21]

there are thousands more violent attacks with knives and blunt objects than their are with guns. over 80% of gun 'homicides' are suicides. wheelbarows cause more trips to the ER than firearms each year in canada. increasing the rules for law abiding citizens does nothing to decrease the use of firearms by criminals. considering the investment in the registry it makes little sense to scrap it now regardless of its effectiveness. the gun registry and stupid courses have never actually interfered with my ability to participate in the sport. show me where it says you need a licence to hold or handle a gun. guests are a wonderful part of the shooting experience. in my line of work i see 100 stabbings for every shooting. not sure if any of this helps the original poster, but i'm feeling better about writing it down.

 

enjoyed the read and all your inputs - a touchy one for everybody!

[Sinker]

How many lives have been saved by the registry??

 

I've had all my stuff legal from day one, and I've NEVER been asked to see my registration papers/PAL. The only time I use my PAL is to purchase ammo.

 

Its a HUGE money grab.

 

S.

[canadadude]

No need for the gun registry anymore. It served it's purpose for the Liberal Government to launder billions of tax payers $$$$$$. The biggest scam ever pulled on the Canadian tax payer, there are still billions of dollars unaccounted for that were put through the so called gun registry

[Dara]

How many lives have been saved by the registry??

 

I've had all my stuff legal from day one, and I've NEVER been asked to see my registration papers/PAL. The only time I use my PAL is to purchase ammo.

 

Its a HUGE money grab.

 

S.

 

 

I like the part where, when you purchase ammo say at CT they want your address to write down beside the bullets you bought and then leave it where anybody can read it and go straight to the address for the gun they want.

 

personally, I tell them I'm homeless, if they won't write down homeless then I say 123 sesame st.

[mikemicropterus]

The problem as it was explained to me by an RCMP officer, is in the beginning it was administered by civillians and they had no idea how to set-up the registry and it cost taxpayers billions to get it started. That was under the liberals now the conservatives have given the administration back to the RCMP and they have a strategy to try and make the registry work. In the past all handguns were registered by and with the RCMP. The registry now is for long guns and being a country with more land than people firearms are a necessity for some landowners. My suggestion was to give a free ipod to each gun owner when they register their weapons. It works in Toronto when they want to get guns off the streets which is where we need our gun owners to live. I always said I need a handgun to walk the streets of ottawa when I was younger to avert the attacks of suicidal terrorist squirrels who used to own the parks when the sun went down.

 

Most police officers don't give much credance to the registry but it's the politicians who see this as a vote getter e

 

Remember politicians are all about survival these days not running the government.

[Dara]

The problem as it was explained to me by an RCMP officer, is in the beginning it was administered by civillians and they had no idea how to set-up the registry and it cost taxpayers billions to get it started. That was under the liberals now the conservatives have given the administration back to the RCMP and they have a strategy to try and make the registry work. In the past all handguns were registered by and with the RCMP. The registry now is for long guns and being a country with more land than people firearms are a necessity for some landowners. My suggestion was to give a free ipod to each gun owner when they register their weapons. It works in Toronto when they want to get guns off the streets which is where we need our gun owners to live. I always said I need a handgun to walk the streets of ottawa when I was younger to avert the attacks of suicidal terrorist squirrels who used to own the parks when the sun went down.

 

Most police officers don't give much credance to the registry but it's the politicians who see this as a vote getter e

 

Remember politicians are all about survival these days not running the government.

 

 

Try and make it work to do what...like really, what is it supposed to do?

I guess like a politician he stopped the explanation just when it would have meant something

[misfish]

Are ya,ll done bickerin?

 

Like I said

 

 

 

I know there are many that disaggree with this gun registry,hey, me too,but if you want to keep it,ya got to give a bit,to get alot.

 

 

As for being illegal Dara,yes they told me that,but all was ok,since I called and made it right. Could of been worse eh.

 

 

CARRY ON.

[Sinker]

I like the part where, when you purchase ammo say at CT they want your address to write down beside the bullets you bought and then leave it where anybody can read it and go straight to the address for the gun they want.

 

personally, I tell them I'm homeless, if they won't write down homeless then I say 123 sesame st.

 

 

Hey, that's my address!!!!

 

I don't agree with what they do at CT, so I don't go there to get it!! Do you think the kid that carries your ammo in a locked bag has a PAL?? I highly doubt it!!!

 

S.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Sinker

[Bernie]

When my dad was a kid in school he took his gun and hunted on the way home.

Try that now.