SNAGGING SALMON

[laszlo]

This time of year I'm sure many of us come across fisherman snagging salmon in our local rivers and creeks.

I will be one to admit that I did this a couple times when I was a kid (16 years old maybe). That was a while ago and with age now would never

do something like that. Lately I've been going to Bronte Creek armed with my little #1 mepps spinner targetting tiny rainbows, chub and smallies and I see people doing this every time. I have a few questions concerning this.

 

1) If I see people snagging salmon, and I called the MNR, would they do anything about it?

 

2) Is it against the law?

 

3) Who's willing to admit they do it?

 

4) Who thinks laws should be made to prevent this?

 

5) Who thinks this is no big deal at all?

 

 

Thanks

Laz

[solopaddler]

This time of year I'm sure many of us come across fisherman snagging salmon in our local rivers and creeks.

I will be one to admit that I did this a couple times when I was a kid (16 years old maybe). That was a while ago and with age now would never

do something like that. Lately I've been going to Bronte Creek armed with my little #1 mepps spinner targetting tiny rainbows, chub and smallies and I see people doing this every time. I have a few questions concerning this.

 

1) If I see people snagging salmon, and I called the MNR, would they do anything about it?

 

2) Is it against the law?

 

3) Who's willing to admit they do it?

 

4) Who thinks laws should be made to prevent this?

 

5) Who thinks this is no big deal at all?

 

 

Thanks

Laz

 

1.Not likely

2.Yes obviously

3.Who would admit to an illegal practice?

4.There already are

5.Only the ignorant

[Greencoachdog]

1. Call the MNR

 

2. It is against the law!

[StoneFly]

Intentionally Snagging Fish is illegal Yes. Would the MNR do anything about Salmon,...Personally I doubt it.

[timmeh]

If you told them they were Atlantic Salmon being snagged I bet that would get their attention!

[John Bacon]

This time of year I'm sure many of us come across fisherman snagging salmon in our local rivers and creeks.

I will be one to admit that I did this a couple times when I was a kid (16 years old maybe). That was a while ago and with age now would never

do something like that. Lately I've been going to Bronte Creek armed with my little #1 mepps spinner targetting tiny rainbows, chub and smallies and I see people doing this every time. I have a few questions concerning this.

 

1) If I see people snagging salmon, and I called the MNR, would they do anything about it?

 

2) Is it against the law?

 

3) Who's willing to admit they do it?

 

4) Who thinks laws should be made to prevent this?

 

5) Who thinks this is no big deal at all?

 

 

Thanks

Laz

 

1) I believe the MNR has 2 co's for the GTA area, they have an additional 2 co's that cover the lake Ontario tribs. Clearly they cannot respond to every single call with that level of manpower. (I numbers and territories may not be exact, the point is that there are very few co's to cover a large area.) They will do some enforcement during the season; your call may influence where this enforcement takes place. I suggest that you do make the call, just don't expect to see them there 10 minutes after you hang up the phone. Your call will provide information about where the most offences are takling place, so it does provide information of value to the MNR.

 

2) Yes, it is illegal to keep a snagged fish and it is illegal to deliberately attempt to snag fish.

 

3) They won't admit it to a co or a judge.

 

4) The laws are there, it's the enforcement that is the issue.

 

5) I wouldn't describe it as "no big deal at all". I do think it is a serious issue. However, I don't think it is as criticle as poaching a self sustaining population of native fish.

Edited September 20, 2009 by JohnBacon

[Photoz]

In a perfect world, there would be a Conservation Officer 5 minutes away from every stretch of water where salmon could be snagged, cell phone in one hand & ear to his 2 way, just waiting for Mr. Responsible Citizen to call in a complaint about snaggers! He would then rush in, lights & sirens going, arrest the offenders, seize their equipment, including the transportation used in the alleged transgression, and throw them in the slammer to await trial. He would then subpeona the complainant as a witness, and the Crown Attorney would be so happy to get these people off the street, he'd authorize payment of your day's wages, parking, mileage and any other out of pocket expenses for showing up in court as a witness! Yeah h h h h . . . . . RIGHT . . . in a PERFECT world.

 

In the REAL world, Mr. (or Ms.) Concerned Citizen calls the MNR 'Hotline,' about people brazenly snagging fish, ripping their guts open for the roe, and tossing them in the bushes. The operator (IF you get an operator) dutifully takes down your information, and informs you they'll 'check it out.' Then this report is filed, according to who's territory it is, and priority. Lets say this is Saturday morning . . . the area C. O. receives the information mid afternoon, it's for Bowmanville Creek, just down from the dam . . . . he's up at Lake Scugog, by the boat ramp, with Durham Regional's finest, checking out boaters as they come in. What do you think he's gonna do? "Hey guys . . . . gotta go . . . poachers 3 hours ago snaggin' salmon on Bowmanville Creek!!"

 

Or . . . you have a camera, and take pictures . . . . and have them as proof . . . first . . . can you afford to take time off work, drive out to whatever court this will be heard at, maybe several times (remands) only to have the snagger testify that the #12 hook was indeed in the salmon's mouth, and he put these fish 'in the bushes,' for safekeeping, until he left? And his 2 buddies back this up . . . pretty hard to get a conviction? Meanwhile, you're out your day's wages, gas money, and knowing the congestion around courthouses, you may have had to park illegally, and picked up a $50.00 parking 'prize! AND . . . . now the snaggers have your name, address & know what car you drive . . . nice feeling eh?

 

About 99% of the convictions gotten by the MNR are from charges they personally involved in . . . . it's pretty rare that just on information provided by Mr. Model Citizen, that the Crown will lay charges, and depend on Mr. Citizen showing up in court a year or more later, only to have what evidence they remember ripped apart by a second year law student, hired by the alleged offender.

 

But that's just my opinion . . . . . and maybe it is a perfect world . . .. but so far, my years of experience have taught me differently. Personally I'm sick of playing 'hero,' and reaping the rewards offered! Tight (LEGAL) lines, eh?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Photoz

[bigfish1965]

John's last line was, in reality, the real meat and potatoes of the whole thing.

We all know this happens every single year. We rarely see this happening to spawning bass or walleye. Why...because those are naturally sustaining fish (the native status of bass is arguable).

In a put and take fishery, it is hard to justify taking CO's away from watching the deer hunt, the bear hunt and other stuff going on to protect a resource that is only a week away from dying a futile death anyway. Now that doesn't make it right, but it is the facts and it is the reality of human resource allotment.

We're better off calling both the MNR and the police. The police can handle these issues, but then again you run into the same argument.

It is a terrible shame the MNR killed the Fish and Wildlife Guardian Program.

 

We should do as local communities have with high crime or prostitution problems. Erect signs saying it is illegal and that we are watching and that we will take your picture and put it all over the internet so the world will see you are a poacher.

But no one needs to be a cowboy and take on a gang of flossers or snaggers. Do not do anything that is beyond your comfort level. Grab a camera and take pics, take video...it may be all we can realistically do.

[Fishnwire]

I notice that while some guys at least attempt to snag the salmon in the mouth (I think this is sometimes refered to as "flossing") with a hook and egg beneath a float, (which is bad enough) I really have to shake my head when I see guys using a bare 4/0 treble, and raking it accross they're backs. How is that fishing?

[ehg]

I notice that while some guys at least attempt to snag the salmon in the mouth (I think this is sometimes refered to as "flossing") with a hook and egg beneath a float. How is that fishing?

 

What bothers me the most is seeing these guys with expensive float reels, rods, roe etc... blatantly flossing in relatively shallow water. Noticed that even more serious steelheaders do a little snap at the end of there drift just in case a steelie is about to mouth there bait before they re-drift, kinda akin to snagging.

 

1. doubt it

2. Yes

3. Suckers when i was about 10 yrs. old

4. It is illegal already

5. Not me

[BITEME]

Let us not forget the numerous derby's that happen on the lake you have to have a dead fish to weigh for most. I can tell you there are alot of people that have imaginary 30lb+ fish add to this and it does not include the "flossers"the dufusus that go down at night to kick them out of the water to split them for eggs by the pail full and leave them to rot on the shore.

[Twocoda]

1 may not be immediately but a process of correction would be building

2 yup

3 carp and suckers when i was in my teens

4 it is but there is room for improvement

5 laws are laws for a reason ...

[hoosier]

John's last line was, in reality, the real meat and potatoes of the whole thing.

We all know this happens every single year. We rarely see this happening to spawning bass or walleye. Why...because those are naturally sustaining fish (the native status of bass is arguable).

In a put and take fishery, it is hard to justify taking CO's away from watching the deer hunt, the bear hunt and other stuff going on to protect a resource that is only a week away from dying a futile death anyway. Now that doesn't make it right, but it is the facts and it is the reality of human resource allotment.

We're better off calling both the MNR and the police. The police can handle these issues, but then again you run into the same argument.

It is a terrible shame the MNR killed the Fish and Wildlife Guardian Program.

 

We should do as local communities have with high crime or prostitution problems. Erect signs saying it is illegal and that we are watching and that we will take your picture and put it all over the internet so the world will see you are a poacher.

But no one needs to be a cowboy and take on a gang of flossers or snaggers. Do not do anything that is beyond your comfort level. Grab a camera and take pics, take video...it may be all we can realistically do.

[hoosier]

John's last line was, in reality, the real meat and potatoes of the whole thing.

We all know this happens every single year. We rarely see this happening to spawning bass or walleye. Why...because those are naturally sustaining fish (the native status of bass is arguable).

In a[b] put and take fishery[/b], it is hard to justify taking CO's away from watching the deer hunt, the bear hunt and other stuff going on to protect a resource that is only a week away from dying a[b] futile death anyway.[/b] Now that doesn't make it right, but it is the facts and it is the reality of human resource allotment.

We're better off calling both the MNR and the police. The police can handle these issues, but then again you run into the same argument.

It is a terrible shame the MNR killed the Fish and Wildlife Guardian Program.

 

We should do as local communities have with high crime or prostitution problems. Erect signs saying it is illegal and that we are watching and that we will take your picture and put it all over the internet so the world will see you are a poacher.

But no one needs to be a cowboy and take on a gang of flossers or snaggers. Do not do anything that is beyond your comfort level. Grab a camera and take pics, take video...it may be all we can realistically do.

 

Ok I messed up my first reply. Let me try this again.

 

If I am reading this correctly the fish going upstream do not spawn very well? Hence the "put and take" and "futile death" references. If that is the case (not saying snagging is a good way to do it) but why aren't these fish somehow harvested and consumed by people? Do they taste bad at this stage of the process? Do MNR retrieve eggs from them as they spawn? Sorry if this sounds stupid but we don't have salmon in my area and know very little about them but am trying to become more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Thanks,

Hoosier

[MJL]

Ok I messed up my first reply. Let me try this again.

 

If I am reading this correctly the fish going upstream do not spawn very well? Hence the "put and take" and "futile death" references. If that is the case (not saying snagging is a good way to do it) but why aren't these fish somehow harvested and consumed by people? Do they taste bad at this stage of the process? Do MNR retrieve eggs from them as they spawn? Sorry if this sounds stupid but we don't have salmon in my area and know very little about them but am trying to become more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Thanks,

Hoosier

 

Not sure what the numbers are for wild VS hatchery stocked fish but in the rivers I fish, I’m catching good amounts of chinny smolts while fishing upstream for steelhead above weirs, fish ladders, dams, etc. I asked the local fish hatchery and the MNR and those particular fish haven’t been stocked there (in most cases, they were never stocked in those particular rivers to begin with). The smolts also didn’t swim upstream from the river mouths (where they seem to be traditionally stocked) past the dams to get there. I’m guessing there’s a good amount of natural reproduction happening for the Lake O tribs I fish.

 

I’m wondering to what extent the biological impacts these salmon have to our Great Lake tributaries when they do die? Out west in BC, Oregon, Alaska, California, etc, when salmon die, they provide nutrients to their rivers which in turn feed everything from beneficial bacteria to aquatic and terrestrial insects to baby salmon and trout to Grizzly bears directly or indirectly.

 

I personally don’t enjoy the circus the salmon bring with them. Beyond snaggers and some of the less polite/friendly anglers, I’ve seen people using spears, pitch forks, baseball bats, machetes, rocks, nets and volleyball nets. I generally wait for the colder weather when most of the poachers leave the river and I can have my fun with the steelhead in relative peace…In the mean-time I’ll be happy fishing for carp till then.

 

I’ve eaten 2 salmon from Lake O over my lifetime – Both were fresh silver fish…They didn’t taste bad and I’m not glowing in the dark. The grey mushy flesh just turned me off from eating another one.

[Dutchy]

1) I doubt it

2) Yar it be

3) I did in Scotland for mullet in the saltwater when I was a kid. Only real way to catch them, but I was not good at it and never got one.

4) I am guessing there are

5) I think it is a huge deal, and some of this crap should be stopped. Some of the things I have read on here about the salmon are sickening. I have only fished for pink salmon in Canada on Vancouver Island. I now have no plans to fish for salmon in Ontario unless I go out on a charter on one of the great lakes. My own opinion on it is if the salmon make it into the river system, leave them alone. Let them spawn and die. With the low river levels particularly on Lake Huron tribs, it is massively against them anyway, so why make life even harder for them. BUT this is just my opinion and I am not judging people who do fish for them. I'll fish for bass for awhile yet and then hit the chromes when I can when it gets nice and cold. It may seem hypocritical to fish for rainbows, but not salmon, but 1) I am not that good at it (3 rainbows in 12 weekends of fishing last year), and 2) They don't usually have to contend with low rivers or 3) quite so many idiots trying to carve them up for eggs. Where we fish, there are not usually that many people after them so this is judged based on where I fish only.

[John Bacon]

Ok I messed up my first reply. Let me try this again.

 

If I am reading this correctly the fish going upstream do not spawn very well? Hence the "put and take" and "futile death" references. If that is the case (not saying snagging is a good way to do it) but why aren't these fish somehow harvested and consumed by people? Do they taste bad at this stage of the process? Do MNR retrieve eggs from them as they spawn? Sorry if this sounds stupid but we don't have salmon in my area and know very little about them but am trying to become more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Thanks,

Hoosier

 

1.) I am not sure what they taste like at this stage; they sure do not look too appetizing. I don' think many people bother to find out hw they taste.

2.) It is Metro East Anglers (MEA) that collect eggs from the Credit River salmon. They are raised at Ringwood hatchery operated by MEA and OFAH. Ringwood Hatchery provides all of the Chinook (540,000 per year) for stocking on the Canadian side of Lake Ontario.

3.) I am sure of the spawning success for Chinooks. I have hear estimates of anywhere from 10% to 90% "natural" versus stocked fish. For the last two years all Chinook stocked have had their adipose fins clipped. I have not seen official stats on clipped verses unclipped shakers from this year. The people I have talked to say that they have caught far more clipped than unclipped salmon. So it would appear that, at least for this year class, most fish were stocked. The fall of 2007 was a very bad year so future years may have more non-hatchery fish.

[bigfish1965]

Ok I messed up my first reply. Let me try this again.

 

If I am reading this correctly the fish going upstream do not spawn very well? Hence the "put and take" and "futile death" references. If that is the case (not saying snagging is a good way to do it) but why aren't these fish somehow harvested and consumed by people? Do they taste bad at this stage of the process? Do MNR retrieve eggs from them as they spawn? Sorry if this sounds stupid but we don't have salmon in my area and know very little about them but am trying to become more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Thanks,

Hoosier

 

As we improve the waterways the spawning success increases...but we really have no idea what they are. It is certainly not self sustaining.

By the time salmon reach maturity (5 yrs) they are a rather poor choice for food since they have rather high levels of toxins in them.

[blaque]

Didnt have time to read every sentence here so i apologize if this has been mentioned.

 

But...............i read some of the points about how these fish (salmon) are on there pilgrimage to die anyway. Why not just wack them and make use of them?

 

Well.........the issue here is that steelhead and Brown runs often coincide with the salmon runs...............maybe not a full-on overlap , but they are mixed right in. I remember back in the 80's when the ontario streams here in the states had full on snagging rights.

M-60's, weighted treble hooks.... littered the stream beds. Campers in all the lots waiting for daybreak..... It was a rip fest for kings in the streams.........but i shutter to even think of the numbers of browns and steelhead that came to shore :asshat:first. It was absolute mayhem on the water back then.........as im sure some of you had witnessed.

[hoosier]

Thanks guys for taking the time to answer my questions. I have a better understanding as to what is going on now.

 

 

Hoosier

[anders]

How many other species other than pike and salmon have an open season during their spawning season in Ontario?????

 

Walleye...nope, Bass...nope...Muskie...yeah right.....Lakers and Brookie...never in a million years....

 

If the MNR would end the season on a particular date, it might end the whole commotion.