Tough New Drinking and Driving Law

[Wendel]

I'm all for being tougher on drunk drivers, especially repeat offenders, but I think this new law goes to far.

They can now suspend your license for 3 days and fine you if a roadside test is between .05 and .08mg!

What is our province coming to?

 

You're breaking the law, but you not really breaking THE LAW...

 

I certainly hope this one get's squashed one day in court.

 

It's going to get to a time soon where not only will you have to eat nothing but salad and veggies at the bar, you won't even be able to have a cold one and take the chance to drive yourself home.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with .08, but I do have a serious problem with .05, why don't they just install breathalyzers in every car standard? I'm sure that's in the plans!

[Zebco]

More money for the govt. If they really wanted to stop it they would sit at the bars and wait for the drunks to stumble to there cars, have seen many ppl leave in there car were they can barely walk! I'm pretty sure the new reading is the same as drinking 1 beer, yet we have people all high on prescription drugs or worst driving all over! I'm more worried about the soccer mom on vicodin and prozac running me down then I am about a guy who just drank 1 beer!

[cram]

I think its unconstitutional. Impaired driving is .08. This is implementing punishment for 0.05....but its not illegal to drive over 0.05....if that makes sense.

 

Its like getting a speeding ticket for going 90 in a 100 zone because the policeman thought you were likely to go faster than 100 somewhere down the road.

[Wendel]

Apparantly it doesn't matter what average Joe or Mark or whoever thinks these days.

I hate to call them fanatical, but Lobbyist groups like MADD have been pushing hard for this for a long time.

Where were we when this was going through?

Probably at a bud's house, enjoying a brew!

[bigugli]

If they have not yet been effective in enforcing the .08 limit, how can they possibly think this will be more effective?

Like so many elements in the HTA, CC of C, etc.., today, enforcement is laughable.

Any one remember the old safety spot checks? An officer would actually give your car a once over. Check your lights, signals, and such.

There is no deterrent effect anymore. Simple truth, if we catch you we'll stick it to you, but we don't have the resources.

MADD has such influence because they have learnt how to effectively lobby. There isn't a single politician out there that does not get needled on a regular basis. The OFAH and the outdoors sporting community could gain a lot from similar tactics.

[Marko]

I think its ridiculous that you cant even have 1 drink and sit in the car and drive.

If the cops want to rake in on this they can just park 30 cruisers by any bars that have patios in the summer and pull over people who have had one drink and charge them.

I wonder who comes up with propositions like these??

If they want to make roads a safer place i would suggest handing out licenses to 16 year olds.

Am i the only one who finds how wrong it is that you have to be 18 to buy a pack of smokes or a beer, but the second you turn 16 you can get a licence????

[fishing n autograph]

I'm all for being tougher on drunk drivers, especially repeat offenders, but I think this new law goes to far.

They can now suspend your license for 3 days and fine you if a roadside test is between .05 and .08mg!

What is our province coming to?

 

You're breaking the law, but you not really breaking THE LAW...

 

I certainly hope this one get's squashed one day in court.

 

It's going to get to a time soon where not only will you have to eat nothing but salad and veggies at the bar, you won't even be able to have a cold one and take the chance to drive yourself home.

 

Please don't get me wrong, I never had a problem with .08, but I do have a serious problem with .05, why don't they just install breathalyzers in every car standard? I'm sure that's in the plans!

 

Ok, I'll clarify a few things. There is a big misconception when it comes to impaired driving. The law states that .08 and over is impaired, however, most people don't know that under the law .05 and .08 is an automatic licence suspension. Secondly, there isn't a fine that comes from the licence suspension so really there is no money to be made. What people don't realize, is that when you blow a warn, most people are VERY intoxicated. To put it bluntly, i've sat down at a buddy's house, had 5 beers in about 2 hours and didn't blow a warn (.05-.08), and there was no way I would be driving. Most people don't understand that a warn is just as bad as a fail. Drinking 2 beers will not result in a warn unless you are 3 feet tall and weight 30lbs.

 

Quite frankly I'm glad that the penalty has increased. Prior to this new law, a person, could repeated be suspended for 12 hours without any penalty. So they lose their licence for 12 hours, big deal, time to sleep it off and they come back in the afternoon and get their licence back. Now, there is more of a consequence, you lose your licence for 3, then 7 and 30 days. Still no monetary penalty. More paperwork for me.

 

Seriously guys, when you wine and complain that penalties are overzealous and cops are raking in the money for this you need to rethink everything. Blowing a warn is a big deal and I've seen more people hurt because the driver drives buzzed. A warn on the blow box is worse than you think.

 

As well, when your licence is suspended, and you get caught driving, you're "driving while suspended" which results in up to a $2000 fine......

Edited May 1, 2009 by FishnNAutographs

[fishing n autograph]

I think its unconstitutional. Impaired driving is .08. This is implementing punishment for 0.05....but its not illegal to drive over 0.05....if that makes sense.

 

Its like getting a speeding ticket for going 90 in a 100 zone because the policeman thought you were likely to go faster than 100 somewhere down the road.

 

and no, it's not unconstitutional, the Highway Traffic Act allows a provincial offences officer to stop ANY motor vehicle on the road to check for sobriety, and if that officer smells alcohol in the vehicle he has the authority to do a roadside breath test on the driver....it's been tested in court saying that it is against a persons rights, however, the act does not violates a persons rights as it is only a brief moment in time...hence it doesn't violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

 

secondly, there has always been an offence for driving .05-.08...actually the roadsides will register a warn from .05-.100.....and a fail you're blowing over .100

[kemper]

Ok, I'll clarify a few things. There is a big misconception when it comes to impaired driving. The law states that .08 and over is impaired, however, most people don't know that under the law .05 and .08 is an automatic licence suspension. Secondly, there isn't a fine that comes from the licence suspension so really there is no money to be made. What people don't realize, is that when you blow a warn, most people are VERY intoxicated. To put it bluntly, i've sat down at a buddy's house, had 5 beers in about 2 hours and didn't blow a warn (.05-.08), and there was no way I would be driving. Most people don't understand that a warn is just as bad as a fail. Drinking 2 beers will not result in a warn unless you are 3 feet tall and weight 30lbs.

 

Quite frankly I'm glad that the penalty has increased. Prior to this new law, a person, could repeated be suspended for 12 hours without any penalty. So they lose their licence for 12 hours, big deal, time to sleep it off and they come back in the afternoon and get their licence back. Now, there is more of a consequence, you lose your licence for 3, then 7 and 30 days. Still no monetary penalty. More paperwork for me.

 

Seriously guys, when you wine and complain that penalties are overzealous and cops are raking in the money for this you need to rethink everything. Blowing a warn is a big deal and I've seen more people hurt because the driver drives buzzed. A warn on the blow box is worse than you think.

 

As well, when your licence is suspended, and you get caught driving, you're "driving while suspended" which results in up to a $2000 fine......

 

Thank you.

 

I have a TON less driving/life/drinking experience then most of the people that posted and even I realize that one beer isnt going to make you blow a 0.05.

 

Makes beautiful sense to me, someone who has had 4 beers should not be on the road. Period. I have no doubt that I could have 4 beers, hell 5 or 6 and keep in on the road but its not the road thats going to kill you, its the family of 4 that accidentally runs a red and you cant react like you would if you werent drinkin.

 

Dont mean to stir the pot, but I guess its just always made sense to me that if youre drinkin you shouldnt be drivin?

[LeXXington]

if you are not able to have a drink and drive please close "ALL resturent bar's".. No drinking at the "sky dome", Air canada centre" and every other event that has parking. If you have a drink how did you get there?

 

There are many things out there that are just as bad as one beer, distrations (kids in the car). Cell phones, tired etc.

 

There has too be a better way off determining if you are fit too drive.

 

Cops just enforce the laws, doing the job that was handed to them.

[Marko]

u dont need to have 4 beers to blow 0.05.

one beer is enough ( i think), if you drink it and sit down to drive few minutes later to drive you might blow that much. I am getting this info from radio, so if its wrong i apologize.

[kemper]

u dont need to have 4 beers to blow 0.05.

one beer is enough ( i think), if you drink it and sit down to drive few minutes later to drive you might blow that much. I am getting this info from radio, so if its wrong i apologize.

 

read fishinautographs post, if I remember correctly hes a cop. I think his word is worth more than the radio...people get all agitated about stuff like this and the wrong news get spread. One beer wont make you blow 0.05

[Tdel]

From what I understand there are two different laws. The .08 reading is under the Criminal Code of Canada which is federal and the .05 is under the Highway traffic act of Ontario.

 

Very seldom do I drink alcohol and when I do have one drink I never drive.

 

Bigugli, I guess you haven't been in our area and pulled over for a roadside safety check. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

 

Tom.

[fishing n autograph]

u dont need to have 4 beers to blow 0.05.

one beer is enough ( i think), if you drink it and sit down to drive few minutes later to drive you might blow that much. I am getting this info from radio, so if its wrong i apologize.

 

wrong............

 

For example, if you order a Keiths or whatever you drink with your nachos and burger at your favourite grease pit. Consume the been and the food and leave 20-30 minutes later you WILL NOT blow a warn.

 

The only way that will happen is if you pound back the beer in 5 minutes and leave then immediately blow. You're pretty much asked when was the last time alcohol touched your lips if you say less than 15 minutes, you're waiting 15 minutes to blow. It's called mouth alcohol transfer. Which basically means there is a strong alcohol residue in your mouth for about 15 minutes when you have a drink....it's the same for mouthwash...you'll fail a roadside if you use mouthwash then blow....

 

remember the media doesn't always have everything straight....

[fishing n autograph]

Bigugli, I guess you haven't been in our area and pulled over for a roadside safety check. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

 

Tom.

 

The safety check is used all the time, but mostly for the Commercial trucks and the little kids with their modified street racers.

[Raf]

yes it will kemper, if you take the breathalyzer shortly after even having a 1oz shot there's a chance you will blow over. this is why the police ask how long since you've had your last drink, to give you a 'cooling off' period.

 

i think the biggest problem is that people don't know what exactly 0.05 means in terms of how many drinks in a given time frame for a given height/weight means.

 

i admit i did once blow in the 'warning' zone after having 4 beers over about 2 hours plus about an hr of water before i drove. i thought i was fine to drive but the breathalyzer said nay. the penalty at that time was the aforementioned 12hr suspension and i contributed to the econmony by having to get my vehicle towed then taking the ttc to retrieve my license.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Raf

[fishing n autograph]

yes it will kemper, if you take the breathalyzer shortly after even having a 1oz shot there's a chance you will blow over. this is why the police ask how long since you've had your last drink, to give you a 'cooling off' period.

 

i think the biggest problem is that people don't know what exactly 0.05 means in terms of how many drinks in a given time frame for a given height/weight means.

 

i admit i did once blow in the 'warning' zone after having 4 beers over about 2 hours plus about an hr of water before i drove. i thought i was fine to drive but the breathalyzer said nay. the penalty at that time was the aforementioned 12hr suspension and i contributed to the econmony by having to get my vehicle towed then taking the ttc to retrieve my vehicle.

 

 

Raf, I'm sure you learned your lesson after your warn? Many many many many people don't......

 

The rule of thumb is that an average sized person will get rid of 15 millimuls (mgs) of alcohol from their body in an hour. So if you're a larger person...say 6'2, 300lbs you'll sober up much faster than me or the other vertically challenged people on the board.... The new law is basically tightening up the loop hole thats out there.

[4thgen]

It takes a few beers to get to .05. I had two last summer and got stopped at a RIDE program. After claiming to smell marijuana in my car (there wasn't any), they wanted a breathalizer test. I blew a .009 and they never mentioned marijuana again?

 

It was the first time that I actually knew my blood alcohol content and it was surprisingly low. I think that anyone between .05-.08 shouldn't be driving anyway. If you want to drink a 6 pack, plan a ride home.

 

There has always been a 12 hour suspension if you're between .05 and .08 so to those who are crying about the new law -- it doesn't concern a single beer and it is just a variant of an existing law anyway, which I guess you didn't know about?

[fishing n autograph]

it is just a variant of an existing law anyway, which I guess you didn't know about?

 

Exactly.....i guess most people don't know that they add, modify and change the laws all the time. For example, last year they added these to the criminal code:

 

Impaired driving causing bodily harm

Impaired driving cause death

over .080 cause bodily harm

over .080 cause death

 

rather than just impaired driving and drive over .080

 

What you're hearing on the news is just an education program. People need to know little things before they get hammered. Just like the new cellphone law that's coming and like seat belts in the 80's

Edited May 1, 2009 by FishnNAutographs

[Wendel]

wrong............

 

For example, if you order a Keiths or whatever you drink with your nachos and burger at your favourite grease pit. Consume the been and the food and leave 20-30 minutes later you WILL NOT blow a warn.

 

The only way that will happen is if you pound back the beer in 5 minutes and leave then immediately blow. You're pretty much asked when was the last time alcohol touched your lips if you say less than 15 minutes, you're waiting 15 minutes to blow. It's called mouth alcohol transfer. Which basically means there is a strong alcohol residue in your mouth for about 15 minutes when you have a drink....it's the same for mouthwash...you'll fail a roadside if you use mouthwash then blow....

 

remember the media doesn't always have everything straight....

 

Thanks for clarifying this. I'd like to find out what I'd blow after one beer, then again after 4 or 5.

 

My big concern is not so much the 3 day suspension(without a conviction, hello police state!) but it's the insurance rates that could(and most likely will) skyrocket.

 

Here is the original link I found http://www.thestar.com/article/626953

[Squid]

FNA, thanks for educating the community. Hopefully folks realize just how dangerous it is to drink and drive and will think twice about starting their vehicles.

[Fisherman]

Nice of you to explain the ins and outs of the technical terms, amounts, results and elimination. I gave up a while back cause there there too many people who heard something from the media or a friend that was "in the know".

[fishing n autograph]

Thanks for clarifying this. I'd like to find out what I'd blow after one beer, then again after 4 or 5.

 

My big concern is not so much the 3 day suspension(without a conviction, hello police state!) but it's the insurance rates that could(and most likely will) skyrocket.

 

Here is the original link I found http://www.thestar.com/article/626953

 

Yeah, don't listen to the Star, they are completely anti police......

 

for the suspension, it's an absolute liability therefore no conviction needed since there is no monetary penalty. It's like the automatic 90 day suspension for impaired driving and the 7 day suspension for stunt driving. Drivers receive these before a conviction.

 

Honestly, the simplest thing is drink then let your wife drive home. Or if you're driving just don't drink because so many factors can lead to too many fatal mistakes on the road. In Ontario, there may only be 1-150 murders a year, but there are 5-6000 deaths on our roads every year, most of them are caused by drunk or negligent drivers....

[Zebco]

If the cops were doing there job in the first place we wouldn't have this debate! I just went for a timmies and the guy ahead of me ran the red light and was speeding while the officer was at the drive thru window facing the intersection and he just watched and waited for his coffee, I thought he will get it and radio ahead or go after the guy, nope he proceeded to pull in the parking lot and drink his coffee while i went through the drive thru. This is at 12 in the afternoon wonder what there doing at 2 am?

[fishing n autograph]

If the cops were doing there job in the first place we wouldn't have this debate! I just went for a timmies and the guy ahead of me ran the red light and was speeding while the officer was at the drive thru window facing the intersection and he just watched and waited for his coffee, I thought he will get it and radio ahead or go after the guy, nope he proceeded to pull in the parking lot and drink his coffee while i went through the drive thru. This is at 12 in the afternoon wonder what there doing at 2 am?

 

 

hmmm...perhaps he was getting lunch...wow, i guess because we wear a uniform we can't eat, sleep, be tired, hungry or cold.....

 

did you ever wonder if he was actually on duty or on a training course? did you stop and think whether it was a cop or a civilian in the driver seat? Perhaps it was the fleet manager, who does wear a uniform and was on his way to the mechanic with the car and decided to stop off for a coffee....

 

and wondering where he would be at 2 AM....i'm not even going to start because everyone judges what they see without understanding the circumstances....

 

who's to say that the guy was speeding....people complain that cars are speeding and todays cars are designed to look fast. I've clocked cars at 50km/hr with civilians standing beside me who swore they were speeding.....

 

and if there weren't people like you complaining that their neighbours dog is crapping on their lawn and that the kids in the street are playing roadhockey too close to your car and that there is a guy sitting in a parked car minding his own business but because he's there he's suspicious and you need someone there to check him out right away I wouldn't be so busy and I could take care of the drunk drivers, drug dealers, armed robbers and thugs out there...95% of my time is spent dealing with stupid complaints because people can't talk to one another and can't be bothered to deal with simple things themselves. How in the world can you say we're not doing our jobs because someone stopped to get a coffee. That's like saying while you're working a 12 hour shift and probably commuting an hour to work at 4am that you can't get a coffee or take a piss during your entire shift.

 

Perhaps if people didn't drink and drive, we would have to have this discussion

Edited May 1, 2009 by FishnNAutographs