kickingfrog Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDi....aspx?e=1446712 ICE RESCUE Persistent problems with pressure cracks Posted By STAFF Posted 6 hours ago Emergency crews were called to Johnson's Beach early yesterday evening after a van became lodged on a pressure crack. Fire and emergency services Capt. Brent Wilson said the van, which had been driven across the lake on the ice from Line 6 of Innisfil, did not go under the ice at any time. The driver and two young passengers were uninjured and dry. Barrie firefighters returned them safely to shore. "There are so many pressure cracks out there and the snow can hide them. It's not a good idea to take a vehicle out there," Wilson said. "People should remember there is no insurance for their vehicle when they're on the ice." An incident on Saturday saw another van go through the ice of Cook's Bay. According to South Simcoe Police, a 20-year-old man had his mother's van out on the lake near Snake Island when it went into the water after hitting a pressure crack. Neither the driver or the passenger were injured-- they also didn't get wet -- but the van eventually became completely submerged. The Ministry of the Environment was advised of the incident. No charges were laid. Police are reminding the public that operating vehicles on any part of Lake Simcoe is not recommended. The ice is not safe in all areas and those who venture out onto the ice must be aware of pressure cracks and open water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Maybe if they release the airbags the cars wont sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Pressure crack at JB.Never seen one before. Further up the bay yeah. Wish there was pics of the local. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 No charges laid, nobody hurt......not even wet......and they call it an ice rescue?? Watch the cracks folks!!!! Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickingfrog Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 The Barrie tv news lead off with a report about the pressure cracks on Simcoe. They showed a car "sunk" up to the doors, not sure if it was the one from the newspaper article or a different one. It's as if this is a new phenomena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walleyemaster Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 you know "crack" kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pxtyson Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 On saturday I was out on my may up to fox island by atv and came across a pressure crack. I was going to ride over it but then played it safe and walked over the crack first. I am very lucky I chose to walk as I went in once I crossed the crack. I always where a float suit and am very happy now that I do I never thought I would go thru the ice but I guess i was wrong. wear a float suit if you are on the ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 People should remember there is no insurance for their vehicle when they're on the ice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It depends on your insurance company! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) It depends on your insurance company! ... not according to the article in the main post! I guess some insurance companies may offer a "rider" for takin your vehicle out on the ice up there, but given the cost of recovering a vehicle thru the ice... I wouldn't think that it would be cheap. Edited February 24, 2009 by GCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 ... not according to the article in the main post! ...cause small-town newspaper reporters always get all the facts, all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fishhave2work Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 ... not according to the article in the main post! I guess some insurance companies may offer a "rider" for takin your vehicle out on the ice up there, but given the cost of recovering a vehicle thru the ice... I wouldn't think that it would be cheap. This is a silly debate. It is black and white and in your policy. No standard ontario auto insurance policy will cover a vehicle going through the ice. This is viewed as intentially putting your car into harms way. If a rider exists, I would imagine it is extremely expensive. I would suggest anyone who drives out on the ice call their insurance company. My guess is after they talk with their agent, they will start walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) ...cause small-town newspaper reporters always get all the facts, all the time... Ahhhh! .. but what about this part? I guess some insurance companies may offer a "rider" for takin your vehicle out on the ice up there, but given the cost of recovering a vehicle thru the ice... I wouldn't think that it would be cheap. Not only is there the cost of recovery, but also the cost of making the vehicle raod worthy again or totaling it out and replacing it!!! Then there's the question of ignorance "What were you doing out on ice that wouldn't support your vehicle?"... " I was tryin' to catch a fish" Sure! We'll cover that!!! Edited February 24, 2009 by GCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiel Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Okay, I've read this through and decided to share this. A few years back I called my insurance company to see if I would have coverage driving out on the ice of Lake Simcoe. At the time I had a front wheel drive compact 4 cylinder vehicle (I won't take the conversion van out there). My agent says I'll look into it. Calls me back and says, "yes I'm covered", no rider and no extra premiums. Not sure who it was (Loyalist?) I've changed companies a few times since then. So to say you can't get coverage is incorrect and today perhaps you'd have to pay for coverage but non the less I'm sure if you shop around you'll find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoz Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've been with the same insurance company for over 25 years . . I've dealt with 3 different agents in that time. Each one has assured me I'm covered on the ice . . . but my newest agent cautioned me that if I did have such a claim . . . . good luck at ever getting another company to cover me! Unfortunately I DO NOT have that specified in writing . . . . when 10's of thousands of dollars are at stake, there could be an escape clause, I'd likely have to either get a lawyer to read my policy to know for sure, or see how the van will work as a submarine to find out for certain? I won't be going on Simcoe again with MY van this year . . . . although there are ALWAYS cracks & ridges out there, it just seems there are MORE this year? Are there REALLY . . . . or are they just publicized more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherpete Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It does seem as if there have been more vehicles going thru this year. I have personally seen 4 frozen into the ice during my travels this season. I have witnessed many people out there this year that REALLY should not have been out there with their vehicles - you do need to know some basic ice safety rules to be safe. The whole Willow beach/Jackson's Point area is almost like a highway out onto the lake at times - you see guys blasting straight out and over cracks, weak spots, etc. with no hesitation - which to me means they don't really know to avoid these areas. They see everyone else driving and figure that it's OK for them too... sad and scary when one goes thru... sad for the lake too when all that oil,gas and other various contaminants leaks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've been with the same insurance company for over 25 years . . I've dealt with 3 different agents in that time. Each one has assured me I'm covered on the ice . . . but my newest agent cautioned me that if I did have such a claim . . . . good luck at ever getting another company to cover me! Unfortunately I DO NOT have that specified in writing . . . . when 10's of thousands of dollars are at stake, there could be an escape clause, I'd likely have to either get a lawyer to read my policy to know for sure, or see how the van will work as a submarine to find out for certain? I won't be going on Simcoe again with MY van this year . . . . although there are ALWAYS cracks & ridges out there, it just seems there are MORE this year? Are there REALLY . . . . or are they just publicized more? If you do have insurance coverage for your vehicle out on the ice it will be written into your insurance policy. It may be a good idea to take your policy into your agent and have him highlight the part/parts that say you are covered on the ice so you can read them and see just exactly what is covered. I would guess it is for collision with another vehicle and bodily injury to persons from a collision. I just can't see an insurance company covering the cost of recovery/repairs/replacement for your negligence of driving a vehicle on ice that won't support the weight of your vehicle. It would be too easy to defraud them... don't like your car?... put it thru the ice and get another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUSTER Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) This is a silly debate. It is black and white and in your policy. No standard ontario auto insurance policy will cover a vehicle going through the ice. This is viewed as intentially putting your car into harms way. If a rider exists, I would imagine it is extremely expensive. I would suggest anyone who drives out on the ice call their insurance company. My guess is after they talk with their agent, they will start walking. oh Edited February 24, 2009 by BUSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUSTER Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) wonder if they still went fishing afterwards? did they catch any fish? Edited February 24, 2009 by BUSTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fishhave2work Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I've been with the same insurance company for over 25 years . . I've dealt with 3 different agents in that time. Each one has assured me I'm covered on the ice . . . but my newest agent cautioned me that if I did have such a claim . . . . good luck at ever getting another company to cover me! Unfortunately I DO NOT have that specified in writing . . . . when 10's of thousands of dollars are at stake, there could be an escape clause, I'd likely have to either get a lawyer to read my policy to know for sure, or see how the van will work as a submarine to find out for certain? I won't be going on Simcoe again with MY van this year . . . . although there are ALWAYS cracks & ridges out there, it just seems there are MORE this year? Are there REALLY . . . . or are they just publicized more? On second thought, I would not call your agent but call the claims department of your insurance company. Agents get paid commission for selling and don't actually process claims or know the legal language of an insurance policy. That is what claim adjusters do. Having been one in the past and as someone who has worked in a claim's department at an insurance company for 4 years, I can assure anyone who is thinking they are fine because their vehicle will be covered to think again. Driving a vehicle onto the ice is an intential act that puts the vehicle and occupant in danger. While the occupant will be covered for medical benefits, the vehicle will not. The insurance company views this in the same context as drinking and driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misfish Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 The insurance company views this in the same context as drinking and driving. Can you be charged for DUI while on the ice? I dont see a traffic act for that.Im just asking, since this thread has gone way off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greencoachdog Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 misfish Posted Today, 05:28 PM Can you be charged for DUI while on the ice? I dont see a traffic act for that.Im just asking, since this thread has gone way off topic. I don't know about up there, but down here you can be charged for DUI while operating a riding lawnmower... ask George Jones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Its so simple to stay away from the cracks. Vehicles don't just all of a sudden fall thru the ice. People who don't know any better, drive into cracks and lose thier vehicles. If you don't know, don't go.......pretty simple really. Most of the clowns I see stuck in a pressure crack made the mistake of thinking they could just giver and make it over, without getting off thier to take a look before crossing. Those cracks are constantly changing.....by the hour. What was safe on the way out, might not be on the way in. Get out and take a look fer gawd sakes before you cross it. It only takes a minute. I've been on the ice my whole life. In fact I learned how to drive on a frozen lake. Never had a problem. Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fishhave2work Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Can you be charged for DUI while on the ice? I dont see a traffic act for that.Im just asking, since this thread has gone way off topic. You can be charged for DUI while sitting in the back seat of the car or beside it in your driveway, on the ice or any other location if you have too much alcohol in your blood and the police officer determines that you had intent to drive that car while under the influance of alcohol. This issue of cars on the ice is not a legal one but a contract one. There is no law that states you cannot drive on the ice since the lake is public and not private property. You however have a contract with your insurance company that allows certain benefits under certain conditions in exchange for payment. If you violate the contract the insurance company is not obligated to fulfill its end of the bargain and pay the claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love2fishhave2work Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Its so simple to stay away from the cracks. Vehicles don't just all of a sudden fall thru the ice. People who don't know any better, drive into cracks and lose thier vehicles. If you don't know, don't go.......pretty simple really. Most of the clowns I see stuck in a pressure crack made the mistake of thinking they could just giver and make it over, without getting off thier to take a look before crossing. Those cracks are constantly changing.....by the hour. What was safe on the way out, might not be on the way in. Get out and take a look fer gawd sakes before you cross it. It only takes a minute. I've been on the ice my whole life. In fact I learned how to drive on a frozen lake. Never had a problem. Sinker I have no doubt you are extremley experienced. My only take away from your analysis is that the guys that find their way through the ice to the bottom of the lake typically say the same thing at one point or another before they find their cars at the bottom of the lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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