Gerritt Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Before I start, lets just say I had a great week with the family... The only downside was one fellow in camp.. "JEFF" was his name. I was fishing my brains out, did ok I guess... well no I did'nt.. the fishing was tough for me this week as it was for many others in camp... It is just the way things go from time to time, Mother nature is a finicky lady.... I do know however of one person in camp that was catching fish.. He would go out morning and night... upon talking to him one thing became apparent his family was not fishing with him.. he was bragging about how he caught his limit.. (OK cool by me) he then proceeded to tell me he caught his entire families limit (On his own) He was there with two teenage kids and his wife... But he did not stop fishing.. He then said any other fish I catch I will be giving away as I cannot keep any more... So... my question is.. Is it considered ethical to catch fish on you're families COMBINED limits... and then to gift fish away to other fishermen just so you can keep fishing?? This guy really burned a hole in my arse this week after talking with him... all mouth, better then everyone else in camp etc etc etc.. I never let the lodge owners know nor did I call the authorities.. as there was enough going on in the camp already... (Someone passed away...) What would you have done? do you consider this "combined" limit acceptable?? would you gift fish away so you could continue to target the species?? I will sign this.. A little ticked off. G PS.. Kevin and Leslie were great hosts as usual! by far my favourite place to visit! but they had more ten enough on their plate to deal with..
Fisherman Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Well as much as something else had happened(death) in camp, you didn't say whether it was not related to you, hope not. From my perspective, doing nothing is just about as guilty as cheering him on to catch some more "family" limits. At least I would have tuned him in the right direction and called MNR TIPS.
jwl Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) that one bugs me too when I know of people doing this, specially if there is only like 1 person fishing...I would like to see the CO if applicable in these situations question the kids about catching 'thier limit" specially when people try and pull this off with young children...that would be like me having my 5 year old in the boat, catching my limit of fish then saying my little one caught 5-6 nice fish...mind you she uses good gear,,,my ultralite combo,and it is totally concievable that we may have hit a lucky spot...... but you can easily tell that some kid fishing with a Sponge Bob fishin rod didn't boat 6- 30 inch pike or anything. I personally think "sharing" keep limits this way is wrong, and may sound a bit hypocritical..but alot different then going out fishing with 3-4 liscenced anglers for the day and splitting the catch up at the end of the day...mind you pretty much everyone I fish with does not keep a full limit anyways ..just a couple for the table, and does not keep more than thier personal limit anyways no matter how many peple fishing with areunder thier personal limit for the day...specially people who lie and pawn thier "extra" keepers off on a kid's limit, that gets to me the most...what's that teaching the kids Edited July 18, 2008 by jwl
anders Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Isnt that illegal????? I might be wrong. If they were fishing with him, then i dont see a problem, as everyone is out and partaking in the pastime. But to keep going out and catching everyone's limit?? this would burn my as.s too! Possession limits, if he already has his, and obviously he did and his family did, thanks to him, then anything over that is consisidered an illegal fish. Am i wrong?? therefore he would be poaching. I dont know what i would have done either being in that situation at the camp. Authorities proabably would have been a good call.
Burning Babies Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) I would have informed him that what he was doing was illegal. I'd have to be there to say where I would have taken things from there. Around here.... lets say I know people who would be interested in hearing about this. Edited July 18, 2008 by Burning Babies
Gerritt Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Posted July 18, 2008 The person that passed away was no relation to me... But was still a bad deal... I saw him on the dock in his wheelchair the day before, and his wife was trying to arrange a patient transfer to get him home... as for "Jeff" he knew what he was doing was wrong, he also knew I thought it was wrong as well... but what would the MNR do? he had fish for every person with a license that was staying in their cabin.. That is where my question of ethics came about.. I know I would not do it. I also know he fished alone or took a dock boy to keep him company.. The MNR would have to pull the kids aside, the wife aside and question them about when, where how was the fish caught etc... I just figured with everything else going on in camp... this was one less thing that needed to happen... Still ticked me off though.. and he knew it. G
Reef Runner Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 It's a should've, would've, could've sort of situation now. I can understand why you didn't get the MNR involved for the sake of the lodge and the sake of your family's vacation. "Don't but heads if it's uneccessary and will bring no change" is a good philosphy and saves me from many a headache. I can't claim to know the legality of his actions, but from my pov, it is unethical. I can keenly observe that this guy was a looking for center stage. My approach would have been to engage into a discussion with him, ensure he was moving to centerstage, and call him out infront of his audience. A little ego bruisin can go a long way sometimes. So once you make he and his audience feel like an for accepting this behaviour it'll make him either reconsider his actions or stop Just my 2 cents Gerritt. Can you tell I'm a little myself?
Burning Babies Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Wildlife Officers in Ohio have taken down smarter guys for less. If they are willing to put in the time, they can put a case together.
timmeh Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 I also believe this is illegal, though I'm not totally sure what actions I would have taken. Judging his personality simply by what you've said I would suspect if you tried to say anything to him he would have at least blown you off if not gotten confrontational. So in most circumstances I would let the lodge owner know what's going on and let him deal with it. If he wants to protect his fishery he'll make a call. However given the issues at the camp you may have made the right call by not bringing the owners in. So really I don't know, it sounds like it was a difficult situation. Unfortunately some people seem to feel it's their job to keep as many fish as possible, and that makes them better that the rest. I would have been ticked off too. But if something like that were to happen around the local spots that I consistently fish I would not hesitate to take action.
Terry Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 well if it was me I would try to get the lodge owner to witness the guy taking more then his limit then ask the owner to do something about it any good lodge owner will take major steps to get rid of the guy the mnr should be called and the guys picture and license plate number should be posted here and every other website if the lodge owner if he doesn't do something then his name and lodge name should be printed on this website but that's just me
edmichit Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 your license is to make it legal to fish, your limit is for possession of fish. So it becomes illegal to have a freezer full/or cooler over your personal limit at any time. So even with your permission if caught on the lake with more fish on a stringer and full posession at the cottage he is fishing ilegally. "The catch limit is the number of fish you are allowed to catch and keep in one day, and includes fish that are retained for any period of time and any fish eaten or given away. The possession limit is the number you are allowed to have in your possession on hand, in cold storage, in transit or anywhere. Possession limits are the same as one day's catch limit except where otherwise specified"
Terry Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Tree30eight if you are talking about the same day but if you keep 6 fish and give them away, then tomorrow you can keep 6 more and if the person I gave them to lives in the same house and has them in the same freezer no laws are being broken
Greencoachdog Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) This guy really burned a hole in my arse this week after talking with him... all mouth, better then everyone else in camp etc etc etc.. I sounds like y'all had a little too much in common to get along to me Ger. ... sorry Bubba!... couldn't help myself! ... but no, I don't think what he was doing was legal or ethical. Catching you families limit isn't exactly ethical... but probably legal. However! When he caught his last family members last fish and then continued to fish, he was over his possesion limit until he gave those fish away. Had he been caught with that "extra" limit of fish... Edited July 18, 2008 by Greencoachdog
Spiel Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 You may legally gift your daily possesion limit of fish. If he's doing this morning and evening he is breaking the law!
wallyboss Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) If he was catching more than a daily limit and giving them away that is considered illegal. But if he was going out everyday and only catching a daily limit , he can give those fish away to anybody. And they don't need a license to possess fish. We are back at that thread JWL. Edited July 18, 2008 by wallyboss
jwl Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 If he was catching more than a daily limit and giving them away that is considered illegal. But if he was going out everyday and only catching a daily limit , he can give those fish away to anybody. And they don't need a license to possess fish. We are back at that thread JWL. ya , that's where the whole question of ethics comes in.....if there are 5 guys fishing, they all have full liscences for walleye for example, possession limit is 4 a person...so techinically speaking, between the group they could keep 20 fish.....butttt...I still don't think it's right if one guy caught and kept 15 of them and "passed off" his limit to the others even though in total the group still has a legal number of fish between them
Burning Babies Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 Catching you families limit isn't exactly ethical... but probably legal. Certainly under Ohio law it is not. The moment you take possession of a fish, it counts against your daily limit.
wallyboss Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) I totally agree with you JWL, but if he doesn't catch and keep more than 4 daily and gives those away then it is legal, doesn't mean it's ethical but it is legal. But if he was catching a limit, coming back in, giving those away and going out for more on the same day , then I would 've had a good talk with him and that is illegal.. Edited July 18, 2008 by wallyboss
Ron Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 My perspective: If "Jeff" harvested his limit, he is done fishing for the day. "Jeff" can give his fish away to anyone he wishes, even in the same household, they then no longer become his limit. He can still go out fishing for the rest of the day but he cannot keep any more fish of the same species he has already kept a limit on. "Jeff" can however go out the following day and harvest his limit once again as he is no longer in possession of his daily limit. Illegal no, unethical, that is in the eyes of the beholder. If "Jeff" harvested his limit, brought them in, gave them away to a family member or a friend or a stranger on the street and went back out and harvested another limit or even just one more fish of the same species, he would be considered over his limit. This would be illegal.
Canuck2fan Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 I would have had to call Ministry Tips and find out what they thought. Having a death in the camp is unfortunate but still not reason enough to let someone get away with breaking the law if the Ministry thought he was.
edmichit Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 from the MNR website Fishery laws limit the number of fish you may catch or possess. The number depends on the type of licence you hold, the species, where they are caught and, in some cases, their size. For some species there are no limits. In these cases no reference is made to a limit in the Ontario Fishing Regulations Summary. The catch limit is the number of fish you are allowed to catch and keep in one day, and includes fish that are retained for any period of time and any fish eaten or given away.The possession limit is the number you are allowed to have in your possession on hand, in cold storage, in transit or anywhere. Possession limits are the same as one day's catch limit except where otherwise specified. So that would mean, he could not give away he morning catch then legally go fishing in the afternoon. MNR catch and posession
canadadude Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) ya , that's where the whole question of ethics comes in.....if there are 5 guys fishing, they all have full liscences for walleye for example, possession limit is 4 a person...so techinically speaking, between the group they could keep 20 fish.....butttt...I still don't think it's right if one guy caught and kept 15 of them and "passed off" his limit to the others even though in total the group still has a legal number of fish between them This is illegal you cannot party fish so if you have caught your dailly limit your not allowed to catch your partners limit aswell. You can however give your fish away to someone else, but it is still illegal for you keep anymore fish caught that day if you have already filled your catch limit. Catch limits and possesion limits are 2 different things, the dude at the camp could be well with in the law as long as he did not catch more then his limit per day of fishing. The group can keep 20 fish but each person in the group can only contribute 4 fish to the combined total. Edited July 18, 2008 by canadadude
wallyboss Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 The group can keep 20 fish but each person in the group can only contribute 4 fish to the combined total. Canada dude your last comment is right only if they are fishing only one day. LEGALLY (maybe not ethically) but if they are fishing 5 days, the same guy can catch all 20 of them But it would have to be 4 a day then he would give it to 1 guy then do the same thing all other days. But he can't catch more than a daily limit a day.
jwl Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 This is illegal you cannot party fish so if you have caught your dailly limit your not allowed to catch your partners limit aswell. You can however give your fish away to someone else, but it is still illegal for you keep anymore fish caught that day if you have already filled your catch limit. Catch limits and possesion limits are 2 different things, the dude at the camp could be well with in the law as long as he did not catch more then his limit per day of fishing. The group can keep 20 fish but each person in the group can only contribute 4 fish to the combined total. I know exactly what you are saying C-Dude,that's where the whole question of ethics comes in, and you know all too well there are alot of unethical anglers out there man ,one can argue that the "group" would hypathetically be allowed 20 fish between them for example, the question would be who really caught them...it's like the rejects in our area that catch a limit of fish, call up someone on thier cell phone to come and pick them up, a vehicle rolls up, grabs the bucket or bag of fish, peels off leaving the idiots fishing for another bag full, these guys know exactly what they are doing wrong...same as people who claim thier kids caught half the haul of fish for the day..I hate that crap man
lunkerbasshunter Posted July 18, 2008 Report Posted July 18, 2008 yeah man i think that sucks too. That is pretty much the type of people we all want to get cahrged and lose there license. Now you being on holidays i htink you did the right thing by not calling the mnr that could have ruined your trip. But now the trips over, if you have his personal information i owuld surely fire it off to the mnr and see what happens Sorry to hear the fishing was tough up there last week. Cheers!
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