When Does Common Sense Allow Us to See Past the Regulations?

[Casey123]

I was just wondering what everyone thought about the following:

 

We have regulations to help mange our fisheries, they are broad based regulations covering many bodies of water in each region. I think that more often then not they do an inadequate job of protecting or even managing fish stocks on individual bodies of water.

Why do so many have problems making this connection?

Just because it is legal to keep 4 Walleye or 5 Trout from a given body of water, it does not mean that it is the best decision.

I think that we should all have an interest in promoting conservation of the sport we love.

 

Some bodies of water have very high reproductive rates and receive augmentation with stocking. Other bodies of water have poor reproductive rates and/or receive little help from private or government stocking programs.

 

I think that in an ideal world we would have regs for each body of water, but we all know that this will not happen until hell freezes over.

 

The MNR was not even able to publish regs for 2007.

 

Just my thoughts. Often we see people post limits here and or keeping spawning class fish. If anyone some much as questions them, a member will jump all over it and say, "Its not illegal, the regs permit it, etc. etc. etc."

I think that we are all able to make ethical decisions, and not just follow the letter of the law.

 

Thanks,

[kingjames_2nd]

I think that we are all able to make ethical decisions, and not just follow the letter of the law.

 

My ethics may differ from yours. Ethics are based on a persons background, their personal beliefs, how they were raised, their knowledge of the given issue, etc. The laws and limits are in place for people who don't have that bleeding heart, feel sorry for the fish, or looking into the future conservatism attitude. The laws and limits are there to stop people from catching and keeping 25 fish like the good old days. I can understand your point about not keeping the limit every time, especially on a pressured lake.

 

If I chose to keep my legal limit and have a meal or 2 thats my ethic and my decision, not something you necessarily need to worry about... though if you want to thats your choice. People you should be concerned with are those who ignore the catch and possesion limits or slot size limits (also known as poachers).

 

That said, I don't always keep my limit but if I do it's not a good idea to come to me on the dock and tell me off for doing so.... unless you want to go swimming.

[Fishnwire]

The whole point of having regs is because we can't count on all fisherman making "ethical" decisions as far as possession limits go. A limit is just that...a limit. All of us are able to keep less than the limit anytime we go fishing. ..you are correct in saying it is unfortunate that more of us don't limit our limits...but aside from starting posts on the OFC, there's really nothing we can do about it.

 

I personally think that if you have fillets in your freezer, you have no business killing any more fish until you've eaten the old ones.

 

Also, it's not up to you to supply your whole neighbourhood and/or place of work with fresh fish. We've all known fishermen who keep way more than they themselves plan on eating, just so they can give fillets away to friends and co-workers. Unless they're elderly or not able-bodied, let them catch their own!

 

It's unfortunate, but it seems some anglers don't have the mental ability to even consider throwing a legal catch back. Some guys just automatically kill their catch, never even bothering to think about whether or not they have any actual need to harvest the fish. I've witnessed guys get more than just a little upset when they've seen me release a good eater. "I can't believe you did that! What's the matter with you?" they ask. As though there's no point to fishing unless you get to kill something.

[Casey123]

KingJames,

 

Good points,

 

My wife and I often keep a couple to eat; and by no means was my post meant to suggest that this is unethical. I think Bonghits echo's my sentiments.

 

We have fished water that recieves tonnes of pressure, or where the fish population is struggling, by keeping our limits from these waters, we are really only robbing from future opportunites for ourselves and others.

 

That being said, there are also lots of places where fishing pressure is low and/or fish stocks are high. We fish some great lakes up north that see little pressure during the year, we are more then happy to have shore lunch every day.

 

Converesly, lets remeber what the White Fish fishery use to be like on Simcoe, or the Walleye Fishery on the French River. The fish stocks in these bodies of water didn't end p this way by accident. Nippising Wallleye would be a thing of the past if it wasn't for the MNR stocking program.

 

One of my favourite examples of conservation is on the lakes in Eastern Ontario, there are a lot of volunteer run Walleye hatchery ensuring fish for the table and fish for the future.

[irishfield]

The recreational fisherman keeping his/her limit every time they actually find the time to go fishing has no effect on the fishery. The guys I watch that go out EVERY day on Lake T, to their honey hole, and bring home a limit every time do.

 

You can not dictate ethics to someone based on YOUR perception.... based on what you see posted in their OFC threads. This may be the only trip, or one of a few for the whole season for them. So what if they keep their limit.... good for them!

 

Nothing gets my fur up more around here than people dictating what is "right", in their mind, to others that are within the law. And this is the opinion from someone that may keep 3 fish a year.... of course I only caught 4 !

[Greencoachdog]

Some folks may think that a person that poses such a question may be jealous of someone that can go out and catch a limit.

[Garry2Rs]

The problem is with the attitude of "I can, so I will."

In Yuma Arizona where there are two small bodies of water and the fishing pressure is enormous, people feel responsible for looking after "Their Fish" Almost everyone does Catch and Release...If they didn't there would be nothing left to fish for!

But in Ontario where there's almost more water than land, no one feels responsible for looking after the fishery...That's the MNR's job...And we still have some folks have to have something to show for the day. Where I live, I see often guys dragging big fish around town to show the neighbours etc.

I hate to see any game fish killed, but that's only me, not the law. I have a neighbour who is a meat fisherman. We fish together sometimes, and I don't complain when he wants to take his legal catch home. We take picture of good fish, and somehow over the coarse of a couple of years he's decided that smaller fish taste better and that the big spawners should be released. There have been days when he decided at the ramp, that what he had in the live well wasn't worth cleaning, so he released them...I see this as personal growth, and if I was part of that, I'm pleased.

Garry2rs

[Riparian]

Some folks may think that a person that poses such a question may be jealous of someone that can go out and catch a limit.

 

I must disagree. The point was quite valid and I detected no such feelings.

 

I saw a quote in a recent in fisherman article called "our fragile fisheries" by Gord Pyzer.

 

"Whats legal isint necessarily ethical"

 

I belive this to be true. If you read the article, you will understand why. I trust the limits set by the MNR and I obey the law to the letter.

[Terry]

what is ethical, it's a personal opinion and what you think is ethical may be way different then the next guy, so we have laws and rules to follow that eliminates the need to base your actions on personal belief ....it's a system that works for all

[aplumma]

If you are on a lake and you don't catch as many fish as you think you should does that mean that the fish are not their? It might be that the fish are on different structure or have learned that certain things in the water are not edible. It could be the forage base is so plentiful that they feed on it instead of a crawfish pattern they are a shad pattern feeders. I have more faith in the MNR's research and scientific procedures as to what the zone or region can support as far as harvesting than I do for any fisherman's guess as to whether or not X amount of fish should be harvested. If you have a concern as to whether or not a lake has a healthy population then you can make a difference.

 

First read the information that is available from the MNR and see if the lake falls within the guidelines that are ecologically set for the type of water and fish that you want to pursue. If you feel that it is does not contain enough of the fish that you personally want to catch then join or start a program to raise fry using the guidelines that MNR has set and start your own stocking program. I personally donate money to the grass roots program that Lak Air lodge and a few other lodge owners have started and they raise Walleye that are returned to lake Nipissing every year. I personally have bought thousands of fish but to date have harvested a total of 15 fish over the years and they were for the fish fry. If you feel that by writing a thread here at OFC will help... you may save a few fish if on the other hand you decide to take some of your time and invite others to follow you on a structured restocking program you can contribute thousands of fish for future fishing. So call the MNR and volunteer or make a donation to them for restocking you will be helping the environment and you might feel good after doing something that will help people who don't even know you exist.

 

Art

[irishfield]

Gee Art.. 15... you got better return on your money than did I ! LOL

 

Great post by the way.

[bushart]

I seen something similiar in another thread---way I look at it is......

 

I am what you may call a lucky angler and most times am able to catch a limit plus in a day's outing...I hardly keep anything maybe one for the wife if is she is inclined but hardly any. (I think I cleaned too many in my life and now I almost dread doing it)

 

Point is I hold no ill will to those that behave within the confines of the law. Now on that note I won't give those people tips on what I'm doing but if they run into a limit--have at her.

 

Maybe the angle to take is education---the better angler realizes that he can catch supper if needed and there is no need to "Stock-Up" per say.

 

Just a thought

 

Bushart

[singingdog]

Some folks may think that a person that poses such a question may be jealous of someone that can go out and catch a limit.

 

That was unnecessary. It's a good, thought-provoking question.

 

The regs are a balance between what is absolutly best for the fishery and the need to maintain a recreational fishing industry. Lots of times, in my neck of the woods, I see folks that are completly within the regs doing the wrong thing: bedfishing bass, taking full limits of spawners day-after-day out of a small lake.... Using the regs to ignore good biology may be legal....that doesn't make it right.

[JerseyDog]

If I could catch my limit of fish I wanted to eat, I probably would and I wouldn't feel the least bit "unethical".

 

And while certainley there is pressure on our fisheries in Ontario (more in some places than others) and they need to be managed, I don't think that are our fisheries are in some kind of irreversible decline.

 

Fish populations are cyclical like everything else. They are impacted by a myriad of factors, least of which is probably recreational fishing and as per other species, a crash in their #'s, will send anglers elsewhere which allows them to rebound and the cycle goes on again.

 

Overall I think we are blessed to have such a wonderful varied and abundant fishery here in Ontario and I don't ever worry too much about keeping a couple for the table.

[BillM]

Hell, I'm allergic to freshwater fish, how ironic is that?

[sturgman]

I personally think that if you have fillets in your freezer, you have no business killing any more fish until you've eaten the old ones.

 

 

 

 

SO does the M.N.R

[Casey123]

Thanks for the different opinions, that was the whole point, starting a discussion. This was no way directed at anyone on the board either, I think for the most part we all enjoy the posts, especially with pictures of the days efforts. We all have different reasons for keeping fish, eating, a trophy or sometimes they get fatally wounded.

 

But to the wise guy who implied I may be unable to catch a limit....name the lake and the time my friend (Hey Greencoachdog - lighten up man)

 

Anyways, I thought the part of what we should be doing here is debating and sharing view points.

 

 

Thanks and I hope everyone has a great week.

 

Looking forward to eating some Musky this summer, only going keep the 60"+ ones, I here they taste the best.

Edited February 25, 2008 by 4Reel

[waterwolf]

great debate . old -school versus the new eco- friendly ideolgoy .

 

it's really only common -sense . most of us know the fishery we're on .

 

simcoe is certainly blessed with an abundance of perch . taking home a dinner

 

or two [family size ,average]should pose no prblems . bleeding a small lake of a

 

limit of lakers each time you go out 'cause it's legal ?,you see what i'm saying.

 

yes it's either ends of the spectrum but it carries weght .

 

the limits provided to us should be regared as a guide of a water-bodies state of health,

 

not a factual finite indication of allowable harvest.

[Casey123]

great debate ....the limits provided to us should be regared as a guide of a water-bodies state of health,

 

not a factual finite indication of allowable harvest.

 

Waterwolf, well said, my sentiments in one sentace.

 

So now we are all clear...This spring I will be protecting Carp spawning beds, after all they are apparnently a sportfish, instead I will be burying Musky in my moms flower beds, but only if they are over 54". I will keep Steel Head and Walleye to eat, but only if they are at least 15lbs.

There is nothing to worry about becasue this behaviour is all legit, besides fish populations are cyclical, and it really doesn't matter what happens to the breeding population becuse once we fish a lake to near extinction we will all move on to another body of water and let the one we just slaughtered recover. If any of this sounds completely idiotic, then go back and read the posts above.

 

[Nater]

No idea who you are but AMEN

 

Nate

[Corey]

Waterwolf, well said, my sentiments in one sentace.

 

So now we are all clear...This spring I will be protecting Carp spawning beds, after all they are apparnently a sportfish, instead I will be burying Musky in my moms flower beds, but only if they are over 54". I will keep Steel Head and Walleye to eat, but only if they are at least 15lbs.

There is nothing to worry about becasue this behaviour is all legit, besides fish populations are cyclical, and it really doesn't matter what happens to the breeding population becuse once we fish a lake to near extinction we will all move on to another body of water and let the one we just slaughtered recover. If any of this sounds completely idiotic, then go back and read the posts above.

 

 

You're not trying to have a debate, you are just trying to be a goof. You are doing a good job of it. The MNR keeps tabs on things and sets limits accordingly. It's kinda funny how people take hundreds of thousands of perch out of Simcoe each year, and next year there are just as many. Notice the walleye limit on Erie went up to 6 a couple of years ago?

 

Just because you don't agree with keeping big fish or keeping limits doesn't mean it's wrong. I fish for the fish I like to eat. When I go fishing it is for the sole purpose of eating the fish I catch. As long as what I catch is legal, I keep it. It sucks that you have to be such an idiot about things. If you keep a musky, some people will probably throw all this back in your face, and rightfully so.

 

I don't know how many threads we need on ethics vs. law, but I will do what is legal and what I think is right. If you don't like it, go join P3TA or go join fishinghurts. I really don't care. Don't bash people who abide by the law. Our MNR does keep track of things and does stock certain areas. They also makr sanctuaries when need be. For the most part, all the heavily fished bodies of water are looked after just fine.

 

Let's look at 2 bodies of water... BOQ and Erie. When the zebra muscles came in, everyone said the fisheries were doomed. The fish stock dimished in both bodies of water. On Erie, nothing in the regs changed. On the BOQ a slot was put in. These were 2 devestated fisheries. Look what's happened now? The are both producing lots of HUGE fish. Along with the MNR, mother nature is taking care of things.

 

There should not be an ethical word said about anybody who is abiding by the law on here. If you have an opinion, go tell it to someone who cares. We don't.

 

cd.

[Casey123]

Easy there Nater,

 

My tongue was firmly planted in my check, although some members might wish it were planted elsewhere. I have no beefs with the big fish, especially since I don't know how these guys fish on a regular basis. Keeping large fish is not my thing, but I am not about to pass judement on others for their habits.

The hole idea of the post was to open a dialogue. I guess this is one issue most people are pretty emotional about. As is evident by the posts, some here are unable to approach the topic with anything but a willingness to attack others.

That wasn't the point.

[bushart]

I would also caution throwing sportfish into the garden---not sure but I believe there's a law about letting them spoil intentionally.

[Casey123]

Bushart absolutely,

 

Not allowed to let the meat spoil. Don't worry no fish in the garden, not even carp.