Aluminum Boat Hulls - Welded Versus Rivets

[fishinggeek]

From doing a bit of research into boats, it seems welded might be better than riveted, at least based on price. Can anyone explain the other differences? Are welded hulls stronger, last longer, lighter, etc?

[widge123]

Morning

Bottom line a welded boat is better,stronger and will remain leak free longer, all rivets loosen in time. having said that,on a practicle basis on a well made boat the rivets can stay intanct for decades of hard use. the weight of the boat dpends solely on the guage of the alluminum used in construction.

In terms of fishing my concern is more the noise a hull makes, while drifting, than it's construction.

Take care

[cranks bait]

Can't say much for welded, but I can coment on riveted. I have a 1983 Lowe bass boat that is riveted. It is "well loved" let's say. At the cottage it is easier to just glide up the boat ramp (sand) than try and dock at the sunken dock. It has been in rough weather and bounced a few items including ice. It is tough as nails and does not leak. From what I have been told, it is a heaveier boat, but it's not bad.

I have also been around my share of tinnies that are all riveted. They take a lot of abuse. I have only had to hammer rivets close on one. Not a very enjoyable experience being inside of an upside down boat that is being pounded from the outside with a hammer and trying to hold a sledge head on the inside to squish the rivets together with out ear plugs . Drinking beer and Yukon Jack all day probably didn't help any either.

[Terry]

at this point it seems to be..potato...potato...(pronounce second potato different then the first)...LOL

 

both have + and - welds make the aluminum nest to it more brittle so it doesn't flex as well and is a spot that can crack

 

rivet can leak, but are easy to fix

 

welded hulls need the floor and foam and anything near the crack to be removed before rewelding

 

but with todays boats, it is just whatever you decide you like the best

[irishfield]

Now here's a debate that hasn't come up for a while.....

 

Everyone knows my opinion.. RIVETED is stronger.. thickness for thickness. Lets not get carried away and compared a 3/16" (.1875") thick welded stanley to a .100" riveted hull like we did the last round! LOL

[lew]

This is a common question that's asked around here alot and always leads to some good discussions......and it will today too .......but it's sorta the same as which is the best outboard motor to buy.

 

Myself, I've got a welded Crestliner that I'm very happy with and after 8 seasons it's still as sound as the day it was manufactured, but who knows, maybe it'll crack next time I use it.

 

Others with riveted hulls will tell you their boat is superior.

 

I think basically any boat built today by any of the big manufacturers will be good no matter how it's made, but that's just me.

[tonyb]

How many welded airplanes do you see?

Edited December 7, 2007 by tonyb

[fishinggeek]

Thanks, keep them coming, and sorry to open such a can of worms! I'll save my marine plywood versus vinyl/other synthetic floors for another day.

[lew]

and sorry to open such a can of worms!

 

It's not a can of worms at all, infact it usually leads to some great discussions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

........But welded really IS better

[irishfield]

How many welded airplanes do you see?

 

You have a point Tony... but in reality you don't ! LOL Neither does Lund in their propaganda. Airplanes aren't welded because their skin thicknesses are generally too thin to do so. Welding all the ribs/skins/reinforcements vs riveting would also make them heavier than riveting (eating into their useful load). That said the riveting of airplanes does prove you can make a stronger unit with lighter materials, than you can welding and why I stated to not compare a heavy stanley with a lighter riveted hull. The welded Stanley is definitely a stronger, more abuse taking hull... but it's also thicker and heavier.

 

Like Lew said... buy what you like...and don't worry about it.

Edited December 7, 2007 by irishfield

[cisco]

An expensive thick-hulled aluminum riveted boat is fine since that usually means you're getting what you pay for. An inexpensive rivet tinny indicates it was made on the cheap.... so it'll not withstand the pounding a better model will take before leaking.

 

Welded boats are thicker aluminum since, in my view, this is needed to compensate for the resultant brittleness on each side of the weld. Welded tinny hulls simply need to be thicker to provide the same failure resistance than a thinner well-riveted tinny. Aircraft aren't welded since that also would require thicker aluminum than if riveted... which flies (pun intended) in the face of fuel savings.

 

I see that todays boats seem much wider and have much more HP pushing em through the waves at high speeds. These two aspects add to the chance of leaky rivets. A boat that hits the waves flat with more HP vs cutting through via narrower beam under less HP means comparatively more hull stress/leakage concerns.

 

Now that the big tin boat manufacturers are all coming under one umbrella.... Brunswick, I think they are all priced according to their quality and design strength.

 

So you get what you pay for in a new boat. Go cheap and you get probs if you love hammering waves.

 

If buying used go with brands that have good records. Some old Smokercrafts and Starcrafts I've seen are loaded with rivets and don't leak a drop. On older boats to me I'd look for the plateau on the sides since this bending increases flex resistance whereas I see some straight sided boats that when I press on the sides it flexes considerably. Leak test and press the hull on a prospective purchase, and also reflect on how you're gonna use it. Hammering big waves under high horsepower vs going out on calm days in a small inland lake.

 

Guys like Lew use their high-powered boats alot under really adverse conditions, so welded (also more stable due to increased weight) is a good option. But others puddlejumping under light horsepower will do fine with a low cost smooth-sided riveted tinny.

 

Bottom line, you get what you pay for re new; you need to consider your needs/uses of the boat to determine how strong/expensive a hull you need; HP also determines hull strength since anyone with a high HP motor will open er up in waves; used boats offer excellent value and deals can be had by the discerning buyer looking for a strong hull.

 

After hearing guys complain about leaky riveted tinnys I also wonder whether the strength/diameter of the rivets are best for the applications. For aircraft there are MANY metal types and diameters re rivets. Maybe some hull makers don't use strong-enough rivets... or they use cheap stuff which again reflects what the hull costs the consumer.

 

My $.02 on it.

 

Best of luck finding a perfect boat for your needs!

[irishfield]

Chris...when I start building boats I'll get you to write the company website's prologue! LOL

[Terry]

can I buy shares in the company

[irishfield]

Haven't you already ! LOL

[cisco]

Thanks Wayne. I was typing while you posted. Over the years fishing and with my scant aircraft structure training... which I know pales in comparison to your knowlege, I notice this stuff which may confuse novice boat buyers. Remember when back in the 60s and 70s a 20hp on a 14ft fishing boat was really big! Most guys had 6 to 9.9 Johnsons or Evinrudes. Now those hps are used as kickers LOL!

[icefisherman]

Well that same question was infront of me just a month or two ago...and I've considered it carefully.

I almost bought a nice Lowe (welded)....checked few Crestliners and Starcraft's and Alumacrafts, and Smokercraft....and ended up buying Lund (rivited)...

My biggest worry was with cracks in the welded hull....not knowing for sure the probabilities of that happening but apparently it does happen and no matter how you welded it after that it'll crack again next to the weld (or so I've been told)...this against the possibility of leaking rivets....I've decided the rivets will be easier fix when/if they leak...and going with Lund I hope I minimized that possibility....

Will know more next year this time after full fishing season on the Great Lakes with regular pounding in the high waves...

 

Cheers,

Ice Fisherman

[lew]

Remember when back in the 60s and 70s a 20hp on a 14ft fishing boat was really big! Most guys had 6 to 9.9 Johnsons or Evinrudes. Now those hps are used as kickers LOL!

 

 

About 1955, my dad bought a 15' cederstrip with a 25 HP Johnson Seahorse and instantly became King of the Lake and there wasn't a boat within 100 miles could catch us

 

Thanks for the memories Chris !!

[Landlocked]

Wayne and Chris, best explanations I've read about the "airplane/boat/rivet" marketing machine! Aren't the big birds turning to composites now?

[glen]

Fear the crack.

Edited December 7, 2007 by glen

[tonyb]

You have a point Tony... but in reality you don't ! LOL Neither does Lund in their propaganda. Airplanes aren't welded because their skin thicknesses are generally too thin to do so. Welding all the ribs/skins/reinforcements vs riveting would also make them heavier than riveting (eating into their useful load). That said the riveting of airplanes does prove you can make a stronger unit with lighter materials, than you can welding and why I stated to not compare a heavy stanley with a lighter riveted hull. The welded Stanley is definitely a stronger, more abuse taking hull... but it's also thicker and heavier.

 

Like Lew said... buy what you like...and don't worry about it.

 

Damn propoganda! I'm still buying a Lund though...

 

So if you have the same thickness aluminum, rivets are prone to loosening/leaking and welds to cracking...

 

I'd rather have a leak in a rivet, than a crack in a weld if I had to choose...I think

 

Tony

[kickingfrog]

How many welded airplanes do you see?

 

How many are in/on the water? Boats to airplanes is apples to oranges.

 

And everybody knows oranges are better.

Edited December 7, 2007 by kickingfrog

[POLLIWOGG]

These might be bigger than what you guys are interested in but if you ever see an avro built Richardson on the dock, chat the owner up and see if he'll let you have a look at it. If I remember right they are riveted ,planked aluminum. In todays market you couldn't build anything like it.

 

There is a real nice 26' welded boat for sail listed on the wellington bait shop's site on the Quinte board.

[Zib]

I have a 1986 Sea Nymph Fishing Machine 145 with a 35 HP tiller. It’s riveted. I can be pretty rough on my boat at times jumping waves/wakes on the Detroit River or Lake St. Clair & even on the inland lakes. Running it up on shore & banging off the docks. I’ve even had it out on Lake Huron & Lake Erie a few times. I haven’t had any leaks in the 13 years that I have own the boat.

 

A friend of mine had a 2004 Lowe FM175 (welded) that this past May, while out on Lake St. Clair, started taking on water after a bumpy ride across the lake. He got it back to the dock & had 3 cracks in the bow. All the cracks were on the welds where the I-beams in the floor were welded. His insurance company gave him a new 2007 Lowe, which he traded in last month for a fiberglass Stratos 375 walleye boat.

 

I know 2 other guys that both had Tracker Tundra’s that both had cracks in the bow.

 

BTW, wasn’t the Titanic put together with rivets?

[kickingfrog]

"BTW, wasn’t the Titanic put together with rivets?"

 

I never saw the movie.

[pikehunter]

You're going to get lots and lots of opinions in answer to your question.

 

A few years ago I had a 12' tinny, 1960 Arkansas Traveler with a welded hull and it never leaked a drop of water! Imagine, a 40+ year old boat that didn't leak!

 

I now have a riveted Lowe tinny bought new in 2005. Knock on wood, no leaks yet.

 

As Lew said, take your pick as both are pretty well made these days. Well maybe most are but recent issues regarding Tracker may be something to think about.

Edited December 7, 2007 by pikehunter