First Winter Storm - UPDATE

[JohnF]

wow....it should be a find night at work tomorrow....playing in the snow in a rear wheeled car with way too much horsepower and testosterone.....

 

Yer right. I was gonna take the car today cuz the SUV's almost empty and I don't feel like standing out in this crap while it takes forever to fill but mebbe the 4x4 makes more sense. The car's one of those small overpowered rear wheel drive things that's inclined to turn itself around voluntarily. Used to be fun to hit the snow with a rear wheel drive but now all the damned computers they build in make it about as responsive as a toboggan. Even the 4x4 feels like I'm flying by wire but at least it wants to stay straight - spooky but straight.

 

JF

[ccmtcanada]

Boy...what a disappointment....we only have about 2 cm of snow....LOL. Not even enough to cover the grass and they have just canceled the winter storm warning for Toronto. I should have just gone fishing!!

[Mike the Pike]

Actually you're right, that way you can drive right into the ditch. In Quebec, 4 studded snowtires is just like driving in the summer at 120.

 

 

Glad you did your homework.This may explain our bad roads.Seems to me they are a better option.

 

 

Are studded tires a better choice?

Broadcast: November 3, 1998

<<main page

Peter Keith

For most of us the rubber doughnuts that keep our cars and trucks on the road are simply an afterthought, maybe a nuisance when one goes flat.

 

Peter Keith sees it differently: "These are four of the most important safety devices on your vehicle."

 

Keith is a forensic engineer in Calgary. For 15 years he's been a private consultant investigating car accidents. Before that, for almost a decade, he was chief engineer in the motor vehicle safety branch of Transport Canada.

 

"I think people should really remember that these four pieces of rubber [are] all that's holding them on the road. ... and they have to be treated that way," he says. "You've got to keep the tire pressure up. You've got to make sure you've got plenty of tread depth. And you've got to have the right tires for the conditions."

 

Keith doesn't think all season tires are right for winter conditions in Canada, but he's no fan of plain winter tires either.

 

For his own vehicles, he uses studded tires. So does his wife.

 

Studded tires aren't really new; in fact they used to be pretty common 30 years ago. And then they seemed to fall out of fashion.

 

Tire studs are little metal posts that you can have inserted into many standard winter tires. It's simple and it's cheap, just $20 a tire. And according to Keith it's well worth the price.

 

"The great advantage of the stud is that the little piece of steel bites into the surface of an icy road and ... so it provides me with very good adhesion on a slippery road," he says. "In fact it almost doubles your adhesion on a slippery road. And the other thing it does, by roughing up the ice, it actually provides better traction for all other people who don't run on studded tires. So it's actually a very beneficial device."

 

Double the adhesion, better traction for other drivers, yet Keith points out that only a tiny minority of Canadian motorists use studded tires.

 

An awful lot of people when I tell them I run on studded tires say, 'Oh I thought that was illegal.'

 

Studs are banned in the province of Ontario. But, in most other provinces they're legal during winter -- the exact period varies from province to province. And in some jurisdictions studded tires can be used with no restrictions at all.

 

 

 

So why aren't they? Peter Keith says the Ontario ban seems to have given studded tires an undeserved bad reputation right across the country.

 

Gerhard Kennepohl, head of Pavement Research for the Ontario government, explains the province's position: "It became very clear there were safety hazards and it was also very clear there was some abrasion of asphalt roads."

Gerhard Kennepohl

 

He says Ontario arrived at this policy after a series of tests conducted by the province

 

Ontario's tests concluded that the tire studs of that era performed as well as or better than non-studded tires in most winter conditions. But they scratched the pavement causing ruts which could fill with water and create a road hazard.

 

But those tests were done in 1970, and those conclusions don't impress Peter Keith. He says if he lived in Ontario, he'd still use studded tires in the winter, ban or no ban.

 

 

 

[irishfield]

Well come up here Cliff...I just finished the oil line installation! Thankfully I put boards over the trench last night as we have 5 inches and growing!

 

(that doesn't sound right somehow!)

Edited November 22, 2007 by irishfield

[Headhunter]

I think I'm jealous Wayne!LOL

HH

[ccmtcanada]

Well come up here Cliff...I just finished the oil line installation! Thankfully I put boards over the trench last night as we have 5 inches and growing!

 

(that doesn't sound right somehow!)

 

LOL...nah...you can keep it all Wayne. Good thing you covered the trench!

[huey graphite]

I've been commuting from Stoney Creek to Mississauga for 15 years now. First of all I want to say snow tires do squat for you on icy roads. The benefit is in deep snow. Secondly, and it is rare that I defend the city of Toronto or Mel Lastman, but when you have a city that contributes to the Canadian economy, employs more people than any other in the country and has the highest volume of traffic in the country, much is lost when people can't make it to the office not to mention the need for emergency vehicles to get around. I think it was justified to call in the army to help clear the snow. It's not like it can be pushed onto sidewalks or boulevards, it needed to be removed.

 

You get a foot of snow in St Louis de HaHa, PQ and it's just another winter's day. In the city of Toronto, it's a different story.

 

Look forward to your responses!

[Entropy]

YA WELL .......

 

TAKE THAT !!!

 

 

No you do have a point, I guess it's a matter of media coverage sometimes. Those who live and work in rural or smaller towns, don't often get to hear about the mayhem that is caused with a snowfall, but we all hear how bad it was in T.O.

 

Entropy

[lew]

Lots of people found it pretty hilarious that Mel called in the Army, but we'd had a ton of snow that week and with all the comuters that come & go in this city, the roads became clogged with cars and one of the biggest problems we had, as Huey Graphite mentioned, was getting the Emergency vehicles around to where they were needed in a hurry.

 

I was working that week.....I was a fireman in Toronto and drove an aerial truck..... and getting around to many of the calls was nearly impossible. It was even worse trying to get ambulances around with sick & injured people.

 

The MAIN reason the Army was called in to help, was with their large personnel carriers, with multi wheel drive, to help transport the many patients to the hospitals thru the drifts and clogged roads that were impassible to the ambulances. With out the Army and their equipment, who knows what may have happened.

 

It's pretty tough to keep a city the size of Toronto moving after a major snowstorm, and with about 1,000,000 commuters coming into the city everyday, and then many of them just abandoning their cars in the middle of the roads, desperate measures need to be taken sometimes.

 

Sure the Army helped clear some snow, but their main purpose was MUCH more important

 

Those of us that work in Emergency Services knew what was going on with the Army, and were happy to have them aboard.

 

When the American Army Reserve is called in to help the cities & towns in emergencies, everyone thinks it's a good deal, but when it happens up here, everybody thinks it's a joke. Was it any different when the Army came to help up here during the ice storm a few years back......or was that a joke too ??

 

Living in small towns with little traffic is one thing, but when storms hit major centers, drastic action sometimes needs to be taken.

 

If you don't know.....don't critcize

[ccmtcanada]

I was in Michigan when that storm hit and I had to drive to downtown Toronto a few days after it passed. It took me 4 hours to get from Lansing, Michigan to Yonge/401, and then 3 hours to get from the 401 down to Front Street. If I didn't have tickets to the Leaf game that night, I would have just headed to Ajax where I was living at the time....LOL.

 

I decided to try some side streets, but they were all ONE lane only. After trying to navigate them, I went straight back to Yonge because I figured sooner or later I would encounter an emergency vehicle coming the other way and I'd block them.

 

Yes...people laughed when Mel called the army, but when there is no where to put the snow in a city this size, it paralyzes it.

 

Lew...I didn't know about their real involvement...thanks for the info.

[fishing n autograph]

Anyone know how the eastbound 401 and 407 are? What about the roads in Richmond Hill/Markham?

[ccmtcanada]

Here's a link to see live traffic cameras for the 401, 400 and 404.

 

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller...era/camhome.htm

[Mike the Pike]

Well Huey and Lew you sure got my attention.I AM TRULY SORRY FOR THE JOKE ABOUT THE ARMY.

 

It has been said before and by no means did I intend to harm others.I did not realize how much that storm crippled Toronto

nor did I realize how difficult it must have been for emergency vehicles to get around.

 

I come from a place that has its own Army of snow removal equipment and we are often less affected than other cities.And like Huey said often its just another day here in Montreal even with a heavy snowfall.

 

For now on I will not use that comment.

 

Truly Sorry..........Mike the Pike

[lew]

Thanks Mike but it's nothing to worry about, many folks didn't understand.

[huey graphite]

Agreed....apology was not necessary but appreciated. My response was more so a result of the cracks made over the years through the media.

 

I used Saint Louis da HahA, PQ only because I get a kick each time I pass the roadside signs on the TransCanada highway on my way to Saint John, NB.

[Jigger]

If a carp was smoking, would the sport-fish get on its case? Or would they leave the carp alone because he was smoking "outside" the weedbed.

 

Funny, it snowed. I can't stand snow...

[OhioFisherman]

thanks a lot Ohio!! LOL Raf, it`s Canada, your supposed to have snow! Just lucky most of you didn`t get it in August! Drive safely! Slow down!