glirw Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Have you seen his new documentary dubbed Sicko ? Call him biased, call him one sided , the man is a genius. I've watched the movie twice now, and I was left fuming after each time . We might have some problems with our health care system here , but got forbid one of us get kicked out of the hospital with broken ribs and collar bones because we weren't able to pay our medical bill. I think alot of the older aged board members here will appreciate this documentary . May we never privatize health care!
Greencoachdog Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Hell Yeah!!!... open that can of worms Bubba!!!
urbanangler1990 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 excellent film, i havent seen it yet but i will soon, all his movies are amazing and worth watching to inform youself
addict Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 havent seen that particular film yet,but i found his other films interesting. CANADA is the greatest country in the world,best fishing in the world to.
bigfish1965 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Both systems have their merits. I prefer our system, but thats likely because I have had all good experiences with it. Canadians do live longer than our southern neighbours...but that may be because we have more fishing available here.
Greencoachdog Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 havent seen that particular film yet,but i found his other films interesting.CANADA is the greatest country in the world,best fishing in the world to. Patriotism... I like that!!!
love2fishhave2work Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Sorry Grilw. I think being Canadian has nothing to do with how Moore cons the masses. Lucky for you that you never ran into the real Canadian health care system. I did and it cost me $50,000 to try to fix the mistakes that our wonderful health system caused for a family member only to see them die anyway. Moore's films remind me of watching Soviet Era propaganda about America while growing up in the Soviet Union. I am not saying that America's system is perfect, far from it but our sucks. Pray you never get really sick or anyone you love. Try to ever get a second opinion from a specialist in Canada without waiting a year for it. Our system makes us feel like we need to win a lottery ticket to get in to see a specialist with a good reputation and once you do, hope like heck that they know what they are doing because you will never be able to question them. When they make a mistake and many do, good luck trying to find anyone accountable for it. Do yourself a favor, pick a specialty and call that doctors office to ask for a 1 min. phone conversation for some advice. That secretary will treat you like you are an out of work individual at the unemployment office who refuses to try a new job. Then google an expert in the same profession in the US. I guarantee you will be talking to them immediately or within 24 hours. When there is no accountability and when our doctors secretaries play god, there is a problem. That does not even cover half the problems. There have been plenty of documentaries made by left or righ leaning lunatics that the masses fell in love with that did nothing but lead to deaths of millions of people. Does not mean they are true. Until you run into the problems we have here on a personal level and I hope you never do, you really do not get to appreciate the difference between our health care systems. As for Moore, there is more truth in watching The Simpson’s then that left wing Commie wanna be. By the way, not because I disagree with his politics on all matters, just because he shows you what he wants you to see and not the truth, seen to many of those in my life. US system is not the best but heaven help those who realy get sick in Canada and don't know an uncle on a friend who can help them bypass the Bull Nothing personal, Said my piece and now I can go fishing.
aplumma Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I do not know enough to comment on this powderkeg so I will not express an opinion. I am very happy that both medical systems have been able to keep alot of my friends using both types alive and with us to fish another day. Art
Roy Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 All I know is that if my J ever needed a specialist for any kind of a medical problem and the Canadian system couldn't help her NOW, you be seeing us at the NY or VT border to pay for what she needed pdq.
OhioFisherman Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 grilw, the man does know how to provoke thought. As someone who has seen more doctors in the last 4 years than in the previous 51 there are some issues with our system. Still our healthcare system is one of the best in the world and it does deal with a lot of people, 300 million plus and that alone will cause issues. I have had some issues myself with the system and have learned when in doubt change doctors, they are not all equal. Still I am not ready to leave the country for medical care.
bigfish1965 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Sorry Grilw. I think being Canadian has nothing to do with how Moore cons the masses. Lucky for you that you never ran into the real Canadian health care system. I did and it cost me $50,000 to try to fix the mistakes that our wonderful health system caused for a family member only to see them die anyway. Moore's films remind me of watching Soviet Era propaganda about America while growing up in the Soviet Union. I am not saying that America's system is perfect, far from it but our sucks. Pray you never get really sick or anyone you love. Try to ever get a second opinion from a specialist in Canada without waiting a year for it. Our system makes us feel like we need to win a lottery ticket to get in to see a specialist with a good reputation and once you do, hope like heck that they know what they are doing because you will never be able to question them. When they make a mistake and many do, good luck trying to find anyone accountable for it. Do yourself a favor, pick a specialty and call that doctors office to ask for a 1 min. phone conversation for some advice. That secretary will treat you like you are an out of work individual at the unemployment office who refuses to try a new job. Then google an expert in the same profession in the US. I guarantee you will be talking to them immediately or within 24 hours. When there is no accountability and when our doctors secretaries play god, there is a problem. That does not even cover half the problems. There have been plenty of documentaries made by left or righ leaning lunatics that the masses fell in love with that did nothing but lead to deaths of millions of people. Does not mean they are true. Until you run into the problems we have here on a personal level and I hope you never do, you really do not get to appreciate the difference between our health care systems. As for Moore, there is more truth in watching The Simpson's then that left wing Commie wanna be. By the way, not because I disagree with his politics on all matters, just because he shows you what he wants you to see and not the truth, seen to many of those in my life. US system is not the best but heaven help those who realy get sick in Canada and don't know an uncle on a friend who can help them bypass the Bull Nothing personal, Said my piece and now I can go fishing. I had cancer in 98 and had my gall bladder out last year. Both times I had no issues seeing a doctor or talking to a doctor about whatever questions I had. I never waited more than a week to see a doctor.It may be the case that the system is not as important as the people in it.
Moosebunk Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Working within a specific niche of the Canadian system I can tell you it sure has it's pros and cons. I will say though, that my experience shows me that it is quite like the American in the sense that, certain peoples get preferential treatment. Here in Canada it's generally the poor who benefit most advantageously while in the States it is the rich. Who's is right or wrong in an ethical sense......? I have my answer.
thecraftyprince Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I was watching a talk show the other night and they were discussing this movie, apparently, the world rankings for health care had the Us in 37th and Canada in 30th, maybe he should have used another system for comparison. Remember folks, the purpose of these movies is to make money, if you think that these people are actually interested in change your dreaming. The last thing rich Americans want to do is wait in line with the "huddled masses" for better health care, Moore included. Your right love2fishhave2work his films and that other masterpiece of propoganda "An Inconvenient Truth" would have made Goebbels proud. Ask yourself one thing when you see or hear stuff like this, Who stands to profit from me believing this ?
nofrills Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I watched the movie, and loved it. BUT, like all his films, creative editing, and creative fact making win. After watching a show on CNN regarding the "made up" facts, I lost some respect for Moore, but then again, who's to say that CNN didn't make up theirs.
spanky Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) So far no problems with our healthcare system here, my mother has 9 brain aneurysms, she sent an email to Dr. Perrin (or Parent- something like that), head of neurology or neurosurgery at St. Mikes in Toronto, on a sunday no less and within 2hrs he emailed her back and then physically spoke to her the same day and saw her 3 days later... that's nothing to scoff at and it's something to be proud of... in the last year she's had 2 surgeries, 3 coiled and 2 clipped and she's doing great, they expected her to lose use of her right leg, nodda she could run a marathon if she wanted to... and so far she's paid for the gas to get back and forth, wonder how much it would cost in the U.S.???? http://edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/s...iref=newssearch http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies...iref=newssearch As for the movie, haven't seen it and probably won't, never saw fahrenheit 9/11 either.... Edited July 8, 2007 by phat bassturd
Starcraft Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 mike moore is an idiot i'm sure quite a few of his facts are right, but he selectively chooses what he puts into his movies and exaggerates. I love Canada too, but it doesn't change the fact that Mike Moore is an entertainer + a hypocrite too. He claims in his book he doesn't own stocks or something, but actually he does own quite a few of them.
Deano Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 To keep it fishing related. Let's just say Micheal Moore is a fisherman, and all who believe him are caught fish.
Ben_Daniels Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) ya you definately opened a can of worms...LOL...I have to agree with Rick, both systems have their strong points... If you dont get terminally Ill here in Canada then its like you've wasted a large chunk of your tax money, but I guess thats better than getting sick in the states and posibly having no money to take care of yourself.... just my opinion _Ben Edited July 8, 2007 by Ben_Daniels
danbouck Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I love the Canadian system. For people with like me that have to support a family and have only one income, there is no way I would ever be able to afford health care if something were to happen. If I lived in the US and got hurt once I would be completely screwed. Yes we have to wait longer but I will not complain when it costs me nothing. My 2 cents
mgilmour83 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Sorry Grilw. I think being Canadian has nothing to do with how Moore cons the masses. Lucky for you that you never ran into the real Canadian health care system. I did and it cost me $50,000 to try to fix the mistakes that our wonderful health system caused for a family member only to see them die anyway. Moore's films remind me of watching Soviet Era propaganda about America while growing up in the Soviet Union. I am not saying that America's system is perfect, far from it but our sucks. Pray you never get really sick or anyone you love. Try to ever get a second opinion from a specialist in Canada without waiting a year for it. Our system makes us feel like we need to win a lottery ticket to get in to see a specialist with a good reputation and once you do, hope like heck that they know what they are doing because you will never be able to question them. When they make a mistake and many do, good luck trying to find anyone accountable for it. Do yourself a favor, pick a specialty and call that doctors office to ask for a 1 min. phone conversation for some advice. That secretary will treat you like you are an out of work individual at the unemployment office who refuses to try a new job. Then google an expert in the same profession in the US. I guarantee you will be talking to them immediately or within 24 hours. When there is no accountability and when our doctors secretaries play god, there is a problem. That does not even cover half the problems. There have been plenty of documentaries made by left or righ leaning lunatics that the masses fell in love with that did nothing but lead to deaths of millions of people. Does not mean they are true. Until you run into the problems we have here on a personal level and I hope you never do, you really do not get to appreciate the difference between our health care systems. As for Moore, there is more truth in watching The Simpson’s then that left wing Commie wanna be. By the way, not because I disagree with his politics on all matters, just because he shows you what he wants you to see and not the truth, seen to many of those in my life. US system is not the best but heaven help those who realy get sick in Canada and don't know an uncle on a friend who can help them bypass the Bull Nothing personal, Said my piece and now I can go fishing. I agree, let's go fishing
glirw Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Taxes are a way that lets Canadians support fellow Canadians in times of need , and get the same treatment in return . Moreover it's a way that lets us ensure that the least among us are cared for. I think the bottom line here is that , the free market should not be allowed to take care of things that are vital to one's life , such as education, healthcare, policing, firefighting , 911 , and so many others . Why ? Because just like with healthcare, the market puts a price on everything , and when companies are profit driven, they have to make the tradeoff between saving a life and saving money. Or with education, the tradeoff is whether to ensure a solid education for all students vs. more money saved on school equipment, salaries, facilities, etc. Guess which alternative capitalism tells us to choose ? Just my 2 cents. Edited July 8, 2007 by grilw
Golfisher Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 The American health care system has the best doctors, the latest medical technologies, and the most state-of-art facilities that money can buy, and the operative word here is money.
love2fishhave2work Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I am happy to hear that many people are receiving good quality healthcare. That is because the individuals providing that care are honorable, talented and responsible. Problem is when people in our healthcare system are not, then there is absolutely no accountability to anyone. That is wrong. Again, nothing great about the US systems, it has problems. Don't make the mistake of thinking ours is good or better then anyone elses just because our neighborhs have some issues. To put it into fishing comparison. In a tournament, would you be satisfied weighing in a 2 pound bass out of Lake Simcoe if the guy to your right only caught a 1 pounder and the guy to your left a 1.5?
FishFinder Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 To put it into fishing comparison. In a tournament, would you be satisfied weighing in a 2 pound bass out of Lake Simcoe if the guy to your right only caught a 1 pounder and the guy to your left a 1.5? Yes, because I would still win the tournament.
urbanangler1990 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 both countries have their flaws, but America needs to take the PROFIT aspect out of the system, health care is a human right aint it
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