crappieperchhunter Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 (edited) I fished my swim "Carp Point" on Sturgeon Lake last Thursday and today and got skunked both times. I have no problems with a skunking...over the years I have endured my fair share...my concern is that whatever is killing the carp on Scugog has gotten into Sturgeon as well. Today I counted 12 dead carp above the dam in Bobcaygeon and several more at the dam over by Forbert Pool. Anybody else out there seeing dead carp on Sturgeon? And does anyone know if they have figured out what is causing the problem? Anyone who is a Kawartha Carper has got to be a little concerned about this. Edited June 26, 2007 by crappieperchhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I started seeing the floaters in the south end of Sturg on friday evening. I'm sure pigeon and cameron will be next.... Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediangler Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 I was there last weekend and all the carp I saw were lively and in the mood for love. I was about 5km from Bobcaygeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffw Posted June 26, 2007 Report Share Posted June 26, 2007 They have been dying since last wednesday. We have had 7 or 8 float onto our shore so far and I have seen about 20 dead one's. Cheers Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Last night there were three along our shore line, tonight there were six. I was told by a friend this evening that as soon as the ice was out on Scugog there were a couple of Ministry boats seen dragging hoses in the water and applying some sort of chemical. The person was telling me that they thought it was something to try to control the weeds. Carp are for the most part vegetarian which would explain why it is mostly carp that seem to be affected. I wonder why it is taking the ministry so long to figure out what is killing these fish? Could it be because it is related to something they have done and they don't want to admit it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joonmoon Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hope thats not true. The MNR should know better then that, there are mechanical weed eaters that can be used with little to no adverse effects to the chemistry of the water. The costs are reasonable and the long term goal can be accomplished quite easily. Now look what has happened, hope this doesn't affect other species within the system. Dang...our ecological system is so delicate when the hell are people gonna figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Well, something isn't adding up. If it is a virus then why aren't we seeing muskies floating in. The only fish that seem to be affected in any numbers are the carp and they are the only fish which are primarly vegeterian. They claim that this was probably spread by fishermen transporting bait and balist between lakes, why then is it only down stream from Scugog and spreading? I know for a fact that some people have fished Scugog and Balsam lake which is the highest in the Trent Severen system. I haven't heard any reports of dead carp over near Fenelon Falls but the current flows from Fenelon Falls into Sturgeon Lake then off toward Bobcayegon. According to my neighbour there was a hilicopter flying about 100' up and about 100' out from shore here yesterday. It came down as far as the marina near our house (where the Scugog River officially opens into Sturgeon Lake) then flew back up the shore line and followed the Scugog River. Paul suspects they were surveying the number of dead carp. There is a very distinct difference in the weed growth in our area this year, Paul has lived here for 15 years now and has never seen anything like it is this year. Mother nature or the Ministry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmtcanada Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Well, something isn't adding up. If it is a virus then why aren't we seeing muskies floating in. My understanding is that if it's HSV, then it affects coarse fish first....hence the carp are floating. Apparently it can take many weeks before other species begin to die as well. I haven't confirmed this, but it's what I heard another angler saying. Let's just hope it's not that!!! Here's an article about a mutated strain overseas that kills only carp..... http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...gi?artid=546595 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmtcanada Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 News article on dead carp on Sturgeon Lake... http://www.thepost.ca/webapp/sitepages/con...ws&classif= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hmmm, wonder if this 'special' strain of virus can be used to control the spread of flying grass carp invasion? Where can we test market this specie specific bio-weapon in a control environment? Let's try Scugog and see what collateral damage it will inflict before going global? Just my conspiracy theory. Inquiring mind want to know . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) To be completely honest, if its just the carp that are dying then it doesnt bother me very much at all simply because they are an 'invasive' species and dont really belong here in the first place. I also think that we need to slow down with the conspiracy theories, im fairly certain that a stealth MNR boat flying under the cover of darkness isnt spreading a carp disease.... When we need to be concerned is when the natural species of the area start floatin belly up. Edited June 27, 2007 by kemper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazybum Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 When we need to be concerned is when the natural species of the area start floatin belly up. By then it would be too late to say let's start doing something about it. Anytime there is a significant die-off regardless of the species we should all be concerned and should find out the underlying cause which is what the MNR is doing though very sloooowly. At this point we can just wait and let nature do its thing and hope it doesn't spread to other species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemper Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 By then it would be too late to say let's start doing something about it. Anytime there is a significant die-off regardless of the species we should all be concerned and should find out the underlying cause which is what the MNR is doing though very sloooowly. At this point we can just wait and let nature do its thing and hope it doesn't spread to other species. Your right, i didnt mean it as we should do something when they start dying, more of a were not screwed yet, but if the native species start to die we just might be kinda sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyk Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 doesnt sound good, hope it doesnt spread to other fish species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Thanks for the links Cliff. Every little bit of information helps!The numbers are growing at a very alarming rate, I pass by a shallow weedy area on my way home and there are 100's of dead carp floating. Kemper, you posted: "I also think that we need to slow down with the conspiracy theories, im fairly certain that a stealth MNR boat flying under the cover of darkness isnt spreading a carp disease...." You could be right but it wouldn't be the first time the Canadian Goverment has tried or tested something without telling us about it or admitting it. Perhaps it is just a coincidence that two MNR boats were seen putting some sort of chemical into Scugog and it might have nothing to do with what is happening to the carp but they were seen doing it. Why? Why is the carp kill limited to down stream of Scugog? if it is a virus then you would expect that it would spread upstream as well, infected fish would also swim upstream there by spreading the infection that way too. Chemicals on the other hand would tend to spread down stream. It isn't only the carp that are being affected, they may be the only ones dying right now but there is a distinct difference in the weed growth this year, the fishing for other species has been very poor this year. Something has hapened to change the whole area. Conspiracy or not, I'll feel a lot better when I know what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'll feel alot better once we have some proof of what is happening as well. I'm wondering now If I should take my boat up north this weekend......I'm taking it out tomorrow from sturgeon......and I'm gonna power wash it with hot water and soap.....then let it dry until saturday when I hit the water at the cottage......I'm not sure its a good idea though....I might just stick with the canoe this weekend This really sucks..........what happens if other species start dying off in another few weeks........if its in the kawartha's, its gonna be everywhere in no time! Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptheslop Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 And if it is just the carp, it is the best thing that has happened to the Kawarthas in a long time, the carp need to be wiped out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappieperchhunter Posted June 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Sinker you have a good point. How many others have already fished the Kawartha's and hauled there potentionally infected boat out to fish somewhere else the next day or the next weekend. Scary stuff. Personally I really enjoy carping so I have a hard time reading others comments who are trashing carp. All I can do is promise that if the same fate befalls a species of fish that others enjoy fishing for I will not be posting anywhere how happy I am to see there enjoyment taken away from them. What kind of a sportsman's wish is that? Sometimes you just have to read comments from others and not even meet them to know what they are made of...or what they are lacking. I don't wish to see anyone's fishery ruined...so I hope this mess gets figured out soon so it disrupts the enjoyment of as few of us as possible. I'm sure most of us would wish for more time spent fishing instead of less. That is my wish as well. Good luck on the water to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJL Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 As far as common carp go, they seem fairly benign compared to the ones that jump 6' into boats. If it is a virus, what's there to stop it from mutating and hitting other species (which some have in the past)? If you fish the Kawartha region, I'd be worried. Personally, I find some of the reasons why people dis-like carp interesting. Some of the ones I've heard over the years" 1. "15yrs ago the fishing was awesome...The carp ruined it for all of us" Reply "You do realize that carp have been in here since the 1800's" 2. "Carp have eroded away the shoreline all along the Otonabee" Reply "Are you talking about those boats over there that speed through the channels and create all these wakes"..."You're right look how much dirt was washed away when that one sped through" 3. "Carp don't taste good" Reply "Don't eat them then" 4. "Carp are eating all the weeds!" Reply "Maybe that's not such a bad thing...Just look at your prop...And his...And their's" As far as government conspiracies, it won't be the first time someone has used chemicals to control carp...It's called rotenone. Being the carp nut that I am...Perhaps it's best to remain optimistic about the situation. Some research has stated that carp die-offs (natural, man-assisted, man-assisted accidents) can be beneficial to the species where only 1 or 2 strong year classes of fish may dominate a lake (for decades) and as those fish age, the spawning potential and general quality of fish declines. In 10 or so years, Scugog may be the great carp fishery that it once was with a quality head of fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinker Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I don't really care what kind of fish are dead.....dead fish is not a good thing any way you slice it. I don't fish carp at all, but I'm sure its fun. I have caught a few, but never actually targetted them. If I lived in the city, and that's what I had access to, I'd be a carp addict as well....there's no doubt in my mind!! I just have to fish.....species doesn't matter!! I think the rotenone kills all fish....anything with gills. If that was put in scugog, we'd be seeing all kinds of dead fish. Maybe the MNR was just doing some elecro fishing to get a count on fish? Who knows.......certainly not me.....but it stinks (no pun intended)....and I hope it will just be a virus that will pass in due time, and leave us some good tough carp for you carp guys.... Sinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptheslop Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) A true sportsman knows enough that when one species gets to the numbers that the carp have it is time that something is done about them, to think that the carp in the numbers that they are now at, have no effect on the lakes and other species is foolish. And sorry but I for one dont want to fish with 40 foot poles you put together, buzzers, rod holders, and corn slingshots, so as a true sportsman I say the bigger the carp die off the better for our lakes, they will never be wiped out, but they must be controlled,and maybe mother nature is feeling the same way and just doing a little population control. Edited June 28, 2007 by fliptheslop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crappieperchhunter Posted June 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) I have no idea what there numbers are or how they effect....or if... they effect other species. Seems you are an expert. Please share some proven information. I for one would like to see it. If you can't then I have to assume you are one of those people my dad always warned me about....the ones who just like talking to hear the sound of there own voices...Seems to me if you are going to stand on your soap box and preach you should at least have some sort of proof to back up the jibber jabber. Edited June 28, 2007 by crappieperchhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazybum Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 ... so as a true sportsman I say ... Many of us do fishing in general for the enjoyment aspect of it rather than to become be a true sportsman. And really how many is too many to have an adverse impact. What scientific stiudies have you done to support that. Also consider what the impact will be on the tourism business if you wipe out all the carp as you suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fliptheslop Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 (edited) Amasing how guys come out with (what do you have to back up your position) but yet your opinon doesnt need any support at all, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that to much of one thing in any aspect of life has an adverse effect on its surroundings. SO lets see your data that shows carp have no effect on the lakes they are infesting. Thats right infesting, and next time your Dad tells you your opinion is the only one that counts, tell him I disagree. Sorry I dont share your passion for carp. And as far as tourism I havent seen that great numbers of folks are flocking to the Kawarthas to go carp fishing, compared to the numbers that fish for what are classed as sportfish in Ontario. This is may OPINION and its not the same as yours but with the logic you respond with I guess that makes me wrong. Edited June 28, 2007 by fliptheslop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoz Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 If perhaps you opened your eyes a bit, and listened a bit, you'd likely hear about THOUSANDS of Europeans, ESPECIALLY Brits, who pay thousands of dollars to come here and enjoy some of the best carp fishing in the world!! And if you're trying to book a carp fishing vacation from over there, you MIGHT be lucky enough if you act fast, to get a spot in 2008! There are with certainty, far greater numbers of carp anglers than trout, musky, salmon, pike or pickerel ALL put together that come to the Kawarthas and the St. Lawrence from overseas . . . . if the carp were all killed off in this province, ESPECIALLY the Kawarthas and points east & south, it would cause an economic disaster for the tourist industry. Hell, I'd bet there are likely more people that target carp, using this board, than target muskies? But I'm sure an expert like yourself targets 'em all, that is, the ones the carp haven't scared away. If you can read, get yourself a few Brit magazines, check the carp fishing ads . . . you know, the ones that DON'T bring anglers to Ontario . . . . then grab a few LOCAL fishing mags . . . . see what they have for ads, I think you might find carp fishing holidays outnumber ALL others by at least 5 to 1!! Then MAYBE you'll cut down your aimless, meaningless babbling when you see how stupid you've made yourself look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts