2017 Blue Jays

[FrankTheRabbit]

If a team doesn't spend money on players like EE or JB, what's the incentive for other MLB players want to play in Toronto? Players must deal with crossing the border, colder weather, higher taxes and then play for a team that doesn't want to spend coupled with mediocre management personnel. And as it stands, the current roster is weaker than last year's squad. If we just squeaked into the playoffs last year, there's no chance of the Jays making the post season with the current lineup and especially when the Yanks, Red Sox, and Baltimore all getting better. Plus, for some reason, the Jays never play well against Tampa. That's a lot of lost games already and the it's not even 2017!

[lookinforwalleye]

If a team doesn't spend money on players like EE or JB, what's the incentive for other MLB players want to play in Toronto? Players must deal with crossing the border, colder weather, higher taxes and then play for a team that doesn't want to spend coupled with mediocre management personnel. And as it stands, the current roster is weaker than last year's squad. If we just squeaked into the playoffs last year, there's no chance of the Jays making the post season with the current lineup and especially when the Yanks, Red Sox, and Baltimore all getting better. Plus, for some reason, the Jays never play well against Tampa. That's a lot of lost games already and the it's not even 2017!

 

Can we at least play the games first Mr. Wabbit....

[FrankTheRabbit]

I do hope I'm wrong.

[dave524]

 

davis was horrible this season, but a dangerous hitter none the less

 

I would say, offer edwin 4 years at 18 mil, and see what happens, he may take it, his market is pretty dry right now. whats the worst he can do, say no?

 

Didn't he turn down 4 years at 20 mil a year ? or was that just a rumour ?

[FloatnFly]

 

Didn't he turn down 4 years at 20 mil a year ? or was that just a rumour ?

 

he did, but there was also a 10 day time frame attached to that offer, his agent wanted to wait and explore the free agent market, that offer came with in the first few days of the free agent season. So they waited, Jays were very interested, made a serious offer, Astros were very interested, Red Sox were semi interested, Rangers were interested, Yankees were very interested. Edwins agent continued to wait. Jays signed Morales, but were still interested, Red Sox no longer interested, Astros signed Beltran, no long interested, Yankees signed Holiday, no longer interested, Rangers ran out of money for Edwin, no longer interested. 2 NL teams are kicking tires, but not really interested in a DH/1st baseman. Only team left is Cleveland, but short term.

[John Bacon]

 

Didn't he turn down 4 years at 20 mil a year ? or was that just a rumour ?

 

From what I understand, he initially turned the offer down. But when he didn't get any better offers from anyone else, he was willing to take the Jays offer. However, not that they Jays have signed Morales and Pearce; they are not willing to go $80 million over four years with EE. He may very well end up having to take less than the Jays initial offer.

 

That's all based on rumors; I haven't seen anything official.

 

The Jays did lose out on Fowler, so that may increase the change of Jose or EE coming back.

[John Bacon]

It's official now; Encarnacion is gone. He has signed with Cleveland.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-edwin-encarnacion-indians-agree-to-60-million-deal-015622728.html

[leaf4]

Seems the jays front office is just sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen? Even though I read they were upping their salary limit to 165mill I believe?

[FrankTheRabbit]

Rogers & Shapiro/Atkins are turning the club into a pretender. Who are they trying to fool?

 

They could have had all this sorted out before the start of the 2016 season, but instead they're slowly ruining the team. They're trying to fill in the gaps with cheaper alternatives while trying to tell us with a straight face that they will remain contenders. Seriously?

 

I laugh at the idea that they're trying to build a better team...Eroding is the best word I can find to describe the process of the team. Each year is getting worse and worse until the epic collapse. Not a happy Jays fan...I should clarify that I'm not happy with Jays management.

Edited December 23, 2016 by FrankTheRabbit

[FloatnFly]

Seems the jays front office is just sitting on their hands waiting for something to happen? Even though I read they were upping their salary limit to 165mill I believe?

 

heres the scenario they are faced with, 125mil commited payroll right now, still need to add an outfielder, and still have 3 bullpen spots to seal up, or 2 spots and a starting pitcher if you keep Liriano in the pen.

 

at the going rate for relievers, 7-10mil, thats going to eat up 20 mil if you go the FA route, leaving 20 mil for an outfielder and either a starter or reliever.

 

also, keep in the back of you mind the offer from Colorado, Charlie Blackmon for Stroman from the winter meetings. don't say its not going to happen. remember 2014 meetings, troy tulowitzski for jose reyes and a couple prospects, trade deadline 2015, tulo gets pulled from a game, headed for toronto

[John Bacon]

A contract requires agreement from both sides. The best offer EE got was from the Jays ($80 over four years). He wanted $125 over 5 years. When he realized that nobody was going to meet his asking price, he tried to sign with the Jays. Unfortunately, they had signed a couple of players that could cover 1st base/DH; so they were no longer willing to pay him $20 per year.

Right now, the jays need help in the bullpen and the outfield a lot more than they need a fourth guy who can play first base.

[Acountdeleted]

It's official now; Encarnacion is gone. He has signed with Cleveland.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-edwin-encarnacion-indians-agree-to-60-million-deal-015622728.html

So dumb. EE turns down 4 for $20 from Jays. Signs 3 $20 at Cleveland. Yay!

[PUMP KNOWS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLNj7lCnSss

[PUMP KNOWS]

Report: Blue Jays' offer to Encarnacion had potential to reach $100M

 

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1191469?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[leaf4]

So basically had the jays waited on Pearce and Morales, Eddy would probably be in blue

[FloatnFly]

So basically had the jays waited on Pearce and Morales, Eddy would probably be in blue

 

the Jays offer was turned down because the 'timing' wasn't right....... sorry, didn't know there was a timeline for an offer from a team you want to play for to make you an offer that you want.

 

the right money was there, the right length was there, but because it came in the first 4 days of the offseason, the 'timing' wasn't there. thats a seriously messed up agent in my books that just screwed his client out of his top choice team.

[FrankTheRabbit]

Rogers & Co. never really had intentions to have EE back. Again, this could have been avoided before the start of the 2016 season.

 

Does giving a short deadline to a star player sound like the team wants you back? Instead, they sign Morales and Pearce.

 

Such a shame. EE wanted to come back, told Rogers & Co., to work up a deal before the beginning of 2016.

 

Rumours were going around that EE wanted to come back for less money and Rogers turned it down.

 

EE taking Cleveland's offer further cements the fact that it wasn't always about the money.

[dave524]

Agent says he turned a 3-75 mill offer from Oakland with visions of pennants dancing in his head.

[John Bacon]

Rogers & Co. never really had intentions to have EE back. Again, this could have been avoided before the start of the 2016 season.

 

Does giving a short deadline to a star player sound like the team wants you back? Instead, they sign Morales and Pearce.

 

Such a shame. EE wanted to come back, told Rogers & Co., to work up a deal before the beginning of 2016.

 

Rumours were going around that EE wanted to come back for less money and Rogers turned it down.

 

EE taking Cleveland's offer further cements the fact that it wasn't always about the money.

Hindsight is 20/20. What if Edwin had signed with a different team and Morales and Pearce signed while they were waiting on Edwin to test the market. It's easy to say now that they should have waited for Edwin to make up his mind; but that could have losing Edwin and losing any chances of signing replacements.

 

It's also easy to say that they should have taken care of this a year ago. What would it have cost to sign him before the year started? Maybe the tried and it was Edwin who wouldn't sign. After all, he turned down and initial offer of $80 million over four years. And what if it was Edwin instead of Jose who had struggled with injuries last season? Then, you would be dumping all over the Jays for re-signing him early.

 

Criticizing decisions after the fact is a lot easier than making them at the time.

 

 

[fishing n autograph]

New rumour is that they're going after Andrew McCutcheon... Great team guy and community guy but the problem is that his production has dropped off so idk what they will give up to get him

[FrankTheRabbit]

Hindsight is 20/20. What if Edwin had signed with a different team and Morales and Pearce signed while they were waiting on Edwin to test the market. It's easy to say now that they should have waited for Edwin to make up his mind; but that could have losing Edwin and losing any chances of signing replacements.

 

It's also easy to say that they should have taken care of this a year ago. What would it have cost to sign him before the year started? Maybe the tried and it was Edwin who wouldn't sign. After all, he turned down and initial offer of $80 million over four years. And what if it was Edwin instead of Jose who had struggled with injuries last season? Then, you would be dumping all over the Jays for re-signing him early.

 

Criticizing decisions after the fact is a lot easier than making them at the time.

 

 

 

Oh I totally agree with you that hindsight is 20/20 and yes, this could have been avoided if they had taken care of this before the start of the 2016 season. I was under the impression that players are rewarded for their performance. Edwin has performed, without a doubt, so pay him for what he's worth. You can't take into consideration of what may or may not happen in the future, because time and time again, through the previous completed contract, EE has put up huge numbers and was a huge part in the Jays offence. The Jays "tried" to offer him a 2-year deal to him before the start of the 2016 season...That really is an insult because the Jays offered Smoak a two year $8.3 million contract, which in my opinion was not a smart move (made the Rangers record of 5 strikeouts in one game lol). There's no comparison between EE and Smoak...you don't offer an all-star player a 2 year contract.

 

When the Jays offered the $80 mil 4 year deal to EE after the fact, it was just to cover their own butts to give the appearance that "oh we tried...". I simply don't buy it. Why didn't they come out and offer that prior to the 2016 season and we could have avoided all of this?

 

There just doesn't seem to be any sincerity from the Jays management to sign players who produce, instead they rely on their "stats" to make their decisions. Signing Morales and Pearce doesn't come close to a player like EE. You'd have to have Morales and Pearce playing at the same time to equate the offensive numbers of EE. lol

 

Through this debacle with EE, I've seen no sincerity from Jays management that they wanted to keep him, aside from the smoke & mirrors $80mil 4 yr offer, that included a short deadline.

Edited December 24, 2016 by FrankTheRabbit

[Weeds]

Steve Pearce is another completely unspectacular player. If his addition to the team is handicapping their ability to go after solid, quality players then I really have no idea of what direction this team is going. It will be interesting to see if fans still show up in droves this year for what at this point is clearly looking like an inferior team. Then again, who knows, maybe they are about to pull the trigger on some kind of blockbuster deal that will bring a player with real impact to toronto. Kinda doubt it though...

[Weeds]

And completely agree frank the rabbit about jays management.

[John Bacon]

 

 

Oh I totally agree with you that hindsight is 20/20 and yes, this could have been avoided if they had taken care of this before the start of the 2016 season. I was under the impression that players are rewarded for their performance. Edwin has performed, without a doubt, so pay him for what he's worth. You can't take into consideration of what may or may not happen in the future, because time and time again, through the previous completed contract, EE has put up huge numbers and was a huge part in the Jays offence. The Jays "tried" to offer him a 2-year deal to him before the start of the 2016 season...That really is an insult because the Jays offered Smoak a two year $8.3 million contract, which in my opinion was not a smart move (made the Rangers record of 5 strikeouts in one game lol). There's no comparison between EE and Smoak...you don't offer an all-star player a 2 year contract.

 

When the Jays offered the $80 mil 4 year deal to EE after the fact, it was just to cover their own butts to give the appearance that "oh we tried...". I simply don't buy it. Why didn't they come out and offer that prior to the 2016 season and we could have avoided all of this?

 

There just doesn't seem to be any sincerity from the Jays management to sign players who produce, instead they rely on their "stats" to make their decisions. Signing Morales and Pearce doesn't come close to a player like EE. You'd have to have Morales and Pearce playing at the same time to equate the offensive numbers of EE. lol

 

Through this debacle with EE, I've seen no sincerity from Jays management that they wanted to keep him, aside from the smoke & mirrors $80mil 4 yr offer, that included a short deadline.

 

Re: "I was under the impression that players are rewarded for their performance."- He was rewarded with an $80 million contract with an option to bring it up $100 million. Unfortunately, he turned it down.

 

Re: "When the Jays offered the $80 mil 4 year deal to EE after the fact, it was just to cover their own butts to give the appearance that "oh we tried...- Seriously??? No other teams offered him that much. Why would they offer above market value if they only wanted to give the appearance of trying to keep him.

 

 

 

Steve Pearce is another completely unspectacular player. If his addition to the team is handicapping their ability to go after solid, quality players then I really have no idea of what direction this team is going. It will be interesting to see if fans still show up in droves this year for what at this point is clearly looking like an inferior team. Then again, who knows, maybe they are about to pull the trigger on some kind of blockbuster deal that will bring a player with real impact to toronto. Kinda doubt it though...

Pearce can play first, second, outfield, and perhaps some other positions as well. He doesn't have a huge contract by baseball standards (I think he's getting $12 over two years). I don't think that he is stopping them from signing other players; they can definitely find a place for Pearce, even if it's a backup role.

[FloatnFly]

Heres the thing, Jays made the offer 4 years, 80 million, with 3 different options for a 5th year of Edwins choosing. so 4years 20mil per year with a 5th year for 20 as an option.

 

The team Edwin wanted made an offer for the amount of money Edwin wanted, for the number of years Edwin wanted. When that happens, you don't sit around and make them wait while you go and play games on the FA market. When the team you want, offers everything you want, you sign the line and say I have found a home for the rest of my career.

 

FranktheRabbit, not sure how much you actually know about Shapiro and Atkins, but that offer to Edwin went against EVERYTHING they've done in the past. They wanted Edwin back 100%, they didn't want to sit and wait for his agent to play games while other teams we're signing up good players.

 

While Edwins agent was playing games, teams were filling out their rosters with players whos agents weren't playing games.