NightCrawler Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Old Ironmaker...I see what you mean, but people wouldnt invest unless there was realistic payback period and $$ savings down the road (mind you, it really all does boil down to the direction in which your roof faces). I will admit, you install a pv system and for the 1st - 3rd year ish depending on your energy consumption you may not make as much $$ as you want. But modern day technology can calculate very accurately the solar isolation of any given day in your specific location. Mind you, without the proper knowledge and data required to make accurate calculations one may very much under calculate their potential savings/earning/sunlight Big Cliff... no i wish im in Toronto, havent had time to set up my bio on here yet. Although, I am purchasing a boat this spring so I may just need those good ol' fishing spots PM me if you have any other questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitoubass2 Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Nothing here to add other then very informative thread! I love this place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 i have worked with solar company on and off for a few yrs it is my understanding you can not sell to grid and power house ... you set up for 1 or other....solar set up is approx. 8-10 times more than generator not an expert solar contracts selling to grid was worth it few yrs back the contract prices dropped the solar installation business slowed just my opinion...wish it was cheaper...i'd be all over it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Ironmaker Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 NightCrawler, You say people wouldn't invest unless there was a return to be had. As someone once said " there's a sucker born everyday". The local paper reported last fall there was a nice rural couple that bought a solar system for $60000.00 from a door to door salesman in Dunnville. After the system was built they told Haldimand Hydro they were ready to send the power into the grid. Haldimand Hydro said thanks but no thanks. The infrastructure was a maximum capacity. Do your homework folks, this working family has to wait until they build a new sub station before they start to see any ROI and are paying interest on a loan. There are no plans for Haldimand Hydro to build any more capacity for there system in Dunnville, they don't need anymore electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagle dad Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 not surprised at this......and the issue is they cant even give it away...soo many laws....energy act... stick with a huge bill for quite a few yrs even if they hook up their own house to the panels and for 60000 the system i way more than they need for a house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightCrawler Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I never understood why people make such big and serious decisions without seeking further professional help ( not just going by what the person selling the service/product says ) but i guess that is where the quote is inserted " there's a sucker born everyday" As for having a solar grid tied system AND powering your house with electricity you produced by your panels - well lets just say you cant and can do that. It is possible and the technology is there, but due to strict government energy policies and local distribution utility companies it just isnt possible for the everyday homeowner ( hydro companies have to make money somehow ) to have that as an option. * this confirmed as of now by my prof. May have missed the 'not available for homeowners so utility companies keep making money' part in my lecture LOL *Goodluck! Edited January 9, 2014 by NightCrawler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 NightCrawler, that actually "is" possible. 100%. However, contractually, it is only possible if you have your own microFIT contract with the OPA, and your not leasing your roof/land to a 3rd party. If your leasing your rooftop or ground to a 3rd party, the contract will state you as a homeowner cannot willfully do anything to disrupt the power to the grid. Some contracts will actually financially penalize you for doing so. If you have your own microFIT contract with the OPA, you control how much power you are going to send back to the grid. The contract with the OPA does not stipulate that you cannot use power you generate. One piece of advice, and I'm sure NightCrawler can speak more to this, on systems setup for the microFIT program, the inverters used on the systems run off hydro electricity - and not the generated electricity from the panels. As such, in the event of a power failure, your system will not send the electricity to any storage devices (such as batteries). The reason for this is it's better to sell 100% of the power generated by the solar system to the grid at the increased price, then buy it back to use in your system at a much cheaper price. As such, a solar system set up for the microFIT program will not generate power for your house in the event of a power failure. Now your other option is to forget the microFIT program all together. Just purchase a solar system, a set of batteries, and generate/store to your hearts content. In this option your inverter will be setup to run off the panels generated power, and not a hydro electric system, as often these systems are "off the grid" to start with. Requiring an inverter to have electricity to operate would defeat the purpose of the setup. The final option, which has also been mentioned on here, is simply to lease your rooftop or land to a 3rd party company. That is simply a tenant / landlord agreement. You are the landlord leasing your rooftop or land to the third party tenant. There are many different companies that offer this service and as already mentioned, some are much better than others. There is some misconceptions on this thread, however, overall its quite factual, which makes me very happy! Good to see the public is starting to learn the systems and benefits of solar power. If anyone wants any advice regarding installers let me know. Oh, NightCrawler, upon graduation if you need any contacts in the industry, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropy Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I don't know a lot about this stuff but even if the grid goes down would the solar panels not supply power to the house (assuming the sun is shining). We can easily do without hydro for about 24 hours at a stretch and would only need enough to cool the freezers back down, charge up some batteries, pump enough water to get us through another 24 hours. To supply power to your house when the grid is down you would need a battery bank. Me and my brother in-law helped our Father in-law install a solar system in his new house. It has 15 m2 of solar panels on the roof, 12 x 6 volt (300 lbs each) batteries in the crawlspace, an inverter for the 120 v panel, and a separate inverter for his well pump 220v, as well as a stand by propane generator. Just the solar system alone (not including any household wiring, nor the panel, nor the generator of the propane land tank) it cost him $15000 about 5 years ago. That doesn't include any installation cost as we did it ourselves with a volunteer 'expert'. The whole thing was inspected by ESA. What he says he would do differently is #1 put the solar panels on racks on the land, because there is less cance of roof leaks (less holes drilled and caulked, etc) also because they have to be cleared of snow way too often. #2 install a diesel generator in a genny shed, with a fuel tank, as he has had several problems with moisture in the regulator and lines, and carb. My advice, keep it simple. your generator you have now serves you well when you need it. Sure it is a pain to get it out and put fuel in it, but it is effective. Keep it that way. Entropy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Cliff Posted January 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Well, it sure looks like the solar idea isn't the best solution for what I want to accomplish at least at this point. The propane whole house system would sure serve my needs and be a good way to go but that is a lot of money to spend for something I MIGHT need. My gas generator does do everything I need it to do but just isn't as convenient but it is here and paid for so I think I'll just keep it. I haven't had to use it in 5 years, we'll just hope it stays that way LOL. Thanks again everyone for all your thoughts, ideas, and information! I really appreciate the time you have spent helping me to become better educated. Edited January 9, 2014 by Big Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormdunker Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Wow - awesome reading here! Thanx for the tutorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Piggott Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 With 2600 wind turbine going up in Ontario, The ones with solar that go to the grid may fine that they might not need them when there contract is up. Then you are stuck with a roof full of panels .and no where to send the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 With 2600 wind turbine going up in Ontario, The ones with solar that go to the grid may fine that they might not need them when there contract is up. Then you are stuck with a roof full of panels .and no where to send the power. As long as the system is still workable I would welcome that problem..New inverter and a bank of batteries and your laughing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdougy Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I can add this:, Your current roof will not be designed for the extra load. It will definitely need some alteration to take the added weight, It's a guarantee. Do not let someone say "it will be fine" and add the approx4-6 lbs p.s.f. Dead load. You would open yourself to disaster of liabilty in the event of a roof failure. Positively you would need a engineered stamp on the roof system "beefing up"". Again this is all protecting you from liability down the road or even the sale of the home in the future. Which does raise another question. What happens if you enter a rooftop system contract, and you have to sell the place. Are you limited to buyers that will "honor" the contract ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 you have to READ your contract. some will allow transferability, others will not. the standard OPA contract that you enter into if you own the system yourself (not a rooftop leasing agreement) allow for transferability. But I've come across a few leasing arrangements that do not allow for transferability. As always, read your contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bacon Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) From what I understand, the government is currently paying people with contracts not to general electricity because it is not required with the currently supply and demand. How does this impact a home owner's ability to sign a contract for a new installation? Do home owners run the risk of paying for a new installation only to have Hydro tell them they are not interested in buying their power? Alternatively, is Hydro beginning to add 'opt-out' clauses that will allow them to stop buying power when the demand is low? Either way, the home owner gets burned. Edited January 11, 2014 by JohnBacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tb4me Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 From what I understand, the government is currently paying people with contracts not to general electricity because it is not required with the currently supply and demand. How does this impact a home owner's ability to sign a contract for a new installation? Do home owners run the risk of paying for a new installation only to have Hydro tell them they are not interested in buying their power? Alternatively, is Hydro beginning to add 'opt-out' clauses that will allow them to stop buying power when the demand is low? Either way, the home owner gets burned. Not if your grandfathered to an existing contract..20 years is 20 years when I went to school, but as far as new contracts go good luck..I wouldnt do it if there was an "opt out clause" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 yes, the contracts with the OPA are guaranteed 20 years contracts and once connected to the grid, your Local Distribution Company cannot "reject" or stop purchasing your power generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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