Salmon that's 'clean' enough to eat. Where?

[Tybo]

Trout,Salmon or char. Where`s the ceder plank.

[funfishing]

Steelhead are Salmon. If you have the internet, look it up.

 

Genetically, recent research indicates closer resemblance to Pacific Salmon than previously thought and they changed genera.

 

But fishermen still consider rainbow trout to be trout, because they were considered that way for hundreds of years. I don't think anybody calls them rainbow salmon, or steelhead salmon (other than that Norwegian smoked fish packaging - likely for marketing purposes more than anything).

 

Just want to distinguish recent biological studies from colloquial terms used by all fishermen, so as to not confuse newbies.

[BillM]

Steelhead are a species of salmonid.. I wouldn't start calling them 'salmon' the same way you'd call a Chinook, Coho or an Atlantic a 'salmon'

[danc]

It's a fairly recent fact that Steelhead are indeed Salmon. It's only been in the past 20 years or so that they have been placed in the Salmon family.

 

From Wikipedia: "The rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) is a species of salmonid native to tributaries of the Pacific Ocean in Asia and North America."

 

Call them what you want, but they are a blast to catch and make great table fare.

[hotsky]

Alright, no need to argue about it. If they taste good just tell me where I can catch them

Edited July 16, 2012 by Gray_Wolf

[BillM]

Alright, no need to argue about it as long as they are delicious, just tell me where I can catch them

 

Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Georgian Bay, Lake Huron.

 

[funfishing]

It's a fairly recent fact that Steelhead are indeed Salmon. It's only been in the past 20 years or so that they have been placed in the Salmon family.

 

From Wikipedia: "The rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) is a species of salmonid native to tributaries of the Pacific Ocean in Asia and North America."

 

Call them what you want, but they are a blast to catch and make great table fare.

 

They went from being under "salmo" - typically trout, to Oncorhynchus - typically associated with salmon, because DNA research revealed a closer resemblance to other Oncorhynchus.

 

They'll always be rainbow trout to anglers though, even if under microscopes they are salmon.

 

Similarly, Atlantic Salmon are under "salmo", but they'll always be known colloquially as salmon to anglers.

 

 

[danjang]

Let's take a look at how all this naming happened. Or at least how I think it happened!

 

Atlantic Salmon and the Brown Trout were originally from Europe, where the center of the world was a while back. There are more species of trout but I'm sticking to these as they are found here.

 

Atlantic salmon were wildly known to migrate, whereas the trout were known to remains in rivers(although this isn't always the case).

 

These provided the basis of newly found species in the far east and the new world.

 

Coming to North America, we came across some Atlantic salmon and two other species. The two species look like a salmonids but they tend to behave much like a brown trout, either remaining in the rivers or in the lake(again not always the case). Here we get Lake Trout and Brook Trout.

 

As european explorers make their way around the globe, they finally make it to the pacific ocean where they encountered a multitude of salmonids. The pacific salmon all behaved similarly to the atlantic salmon and therefore obtained that common name.

 

Rainbow trout is an oddball. It was originally classified in the genus Salmo which means that perhaps the anadromous steelhead was first encountered and documented. I suspect that perhaps the migratory steelhead looked so dissimilar from the resident that it adopted the steelhead salmon name.

 

Of course through the advancements in biotechnology, we can now classify species through DNA analysis. HOLY CRAP! Atlantic salmon and brown trout are now in the same genus leading to the mistaken naming of all of the newly found species.

 

In a similar mishap of European nomenclature, ever wonder how penguins got their name?! Well I'll tell ya!

 

Although it isn't 100% confirmed, they were named after a very similar bird that was once found in in the north atlantic (just like the atlantic salmon!) Pinguinnis is the Genus of the great auks. As the James Cook made his way down to Antartica they came across a remarkably similar bird that was found back home. Naturally, if it looks like Pinguinnis it must be the same.

 

This is why common names don't matter. I can call my steelhead a salmon or a trout. It was mistakenly classified. Oncorhynchus mykiss would be the best way to describe the fish. It's also good to keep in mind that even in the scientific world, the classifications of these animals are ever changing with new discoveries.

[funfishing]

This is why common names don't matter.

 

[craigdritchie]

Let's take a look at how all this naming happened.

What happens is that people get very creative and re-name fish to suit their own purposes.

 

"Norwegian Steelhead Salmon" don't exist. They're a farmed rainbow trout that some guy in a fish store gave a fancy name to. Why? Because an exotic sounding thing like "Norwegian Steelhead Salmon" has more market appeal than "rainbow trout," which people can buy anywhere. It's the same damn fish except some guy got creative and gave it an exotic name. He probably charges more for it and makes more profit.

 

This happens all over the world. Fish stores and fish restaurants give basic everyday fish exotic sounding names so they sell better. People buy into it because they don't know any better. The guy at the fish store says it's xxxx .... it must be because he's an expert, right? "No sir, you're not eating a road-killed anteater. You're eating a genuine, wild American desert lamb .... seared in red wine sauce and a touch of parsnip." Total Bull, but it happens every day. Those "Norwegian Steelhead Salmon" are not steelhead, they're not salmon, and they've never been to Norway. They're rainbow trout that have been raised in a swimming pool or a floating pen (most likely somewhere on the Great Lakes) and fed cat food by a machine. They've been genetically modified to grow from egg to market size in a year. From a nutrition perspective, you're better off to toss the fish in the garbage and eat the plastic bag you brought it home in. But that doesn't sound very marketable, does it? Hence .... "Norwegian Steelhead Salmon."

 

Why do I expect to hear the Monty Python guys chirp in right about now with a comment about "beautiful plumage?"

 

They went from being under "salmo" - typically trout, to Oncorhynchus - typically associated with salmon, because DNA research revealed a closer resemblance to other Oncorhynchus.

 

There's actually more to it than that. Reclassifying them under the same genus as Pacific salmon makes it easier to protect them with the same legislation applied to Pacific salmon. When the lawyers head to court to argue about native fishing rights or hydro dams or high seas netting, it's just easier to protect steelhead too by reclassifying them under the same umbrella as other Pacific salmon.

 

Renaming them had more to do with convenience for lawmakers than any biological reasons. True fact.

Edited July 16, 2012 by Craig_Ritchie

[Fish Farmer]

If you have a choice to which you want to eat. Mine would be a smaller Coho or Atlantic Salmon, over the rest, in Lake Ont.

[Spiel]

If you have a choice to which you want to eat. Mine would be a smaller Coho or Atlantic Salmon, over the rest, in Lake Ont.

 

Don't forget that the possession for Atlantic Salmon is one and must be greater than 63cm (24.8"s).

[BillM]

Yeah, let's not start eating Atlantics out of Lake O, lol.. Any small chinook, coho, steelhead would taste just fine.

[SirCranksalot]

Why do I expect to hear the Monty Python guys chirp in right about now with a comment about "beautiful plumage?"

 

 

 

Because that rant was worthy of John Cleese!! I can just picture you/him twhacking a dead trout/salmon/char down on the counter and shouting THIS TROUT HAS EXPIRED. THIS IS A DEAD TROUT!!

 

On a more serious note, our local Loblaws recently had rainbow for 1 price and 'steelhead' for a higher price(No mention of Norway though).

Edited July 16, 2012 by Knuguy

[Fish Farmer]

Don't forget that the possession for Atlantic Salmon is one and must be greater than 63cm (24.8"s).

You know all my fish Chris come in over 25" even the # game fish "Drum" aliased "Asian Carp"

Even some of my Perch I caught some real screamer DRUM last week. Now I have to change the line on my reel, got stressed out

[pikehunter]

On a more serious note, our local Loblaws recently had rainbow for 1 price and 'steelhead' for a higher price(No mention of Norway though).

 

Yes what Barnham once said is true, "There is a sucker born every minute." And I'm not refering to a fish when I said sucker. Read a book one time, a true account of the authors travels. He was on a fishing boat on the U.S east coast. They pulled a huge skate from the net, a throw back he quizzed, at the time no body would buy skate for the table. He was told it was keepable, they punch holes in the wings and sell it as scallops, so next time you buy scalllops remember that.

 

A fish is a fish is a fish, anyone can call it whatever they wish as long as the are not using the proper scientific name. Mcdonalds used to call the fish in their fillet-o-fish "North Atlantic Whitefish," (aka, cod) because it sounds better. Who knows what it is really is these days?

 

In Britain the fish and chip shops were using shark and calling it whatever before most people would buy shark meat. Ever been to a Chinese buffet restaurant and see fried or baked fish sitting on the steam table? Ever wonder what it is? The sign says fish, but they don't even try to name it! It doesn't swim it's way onto my plate!

 

Whatever anyone calls a fish is unimportant, why bother getting your tail in a knot?

[Fish Farmer]

Yes what Barnham once said is true, "There is a sucker born every minute." And I'm not refering to a fish when I said sucker. Read a book one time, a true account of the authors travels. He was on a fishing boat on the U.S east coast. They pulled a huge skate from the net, a throw back he quizzed, at the time no body would buy skate for the table. He was told it was keepable, they punch holes in the wings and sell it as scallops, so next time you buy scalllops remember that.

 

A fish is a fish is a fish, anyone can call it whatever they wish as long as the are not using the proper scientific name. Mcdonalds used to call the fish in their fillet-o-fish "North Atlantic Whitefish," (aka, cod) because it sounds better. Who knows what it is really is these days?

 

In Britain the fish and chip shops were using shark and calling it whatever before most people would buy shark meat. Ever been to a Chinese buffet restaurant and see fried or baked fish sitting on the steam table? Ever wonder what it is? The sign says fish, but they don't even try to name it! It doesn't swim it's way onto my plate!

 

Whatever anyone calls a fish is unimportant, why bother getting your tail in a knot?

Your right on pikehunter about the Skate, they took the loins out of the back of a Skate and cut them up and past them off as Scallops. Even when they had Lobsters that were starting to turn (slime on the shell), they washed them in a water bleach bath and they were good for a few more days to sell. Tilapia and Basa is another story. As they say, what the stomach don't know or people.

[smally21]

so a tuna isn't worth 30 grand? what about fugu?

[Dozer]

I wonder... when I hear restaurants buy sheephead for 2.5/lb, and carp for whatever price, I would bet 90% of us here wouldn't be able to distinguish between all the different shades of white on cooked fish, especially when there are no scales. Enjoy your buffet fish

[Dozer]

so a tuna isn't worth 30 grand? what about fugu?

 

Its worth that much because theres another dude willing to pay that. Its still actually called BlueFin Tuna and Fugu Puffer, hell, if you can sell a lower grade tuna for a higher grade price, that would be exatly what we are talking about here, although that isn't the OP's question.

 

Eat the smaller fish, remove fat and dont eat those black seenook salmons that run into our creeks.