MNR Regs Question . . . .

[Photoz]

I know there are regulations that deal specifically with where you can, and cannot fish, private property-wise. I tried several 'GOOGLE' questions, but could not find the specific info I wanted. Basically, if a stream runs through a property that has very readable 'PRIVATE PROPERTY' signs, going in and fishing it obviously is unlawful under MNR Regulations. But, if I'm with a pal, who has told me he knows 'Joe Blow' who owns the property, and has permission . . . . . if the C. O. writes us both up, under what regulation would this come? I'm just curious . . . . I was told by a C. O. that going onto land, clearly marked 'NO TRESPASSING,' means exactly that, and you'll get written up . . . . but if you wish to have the land-owner appear in court, to swear under oath he gave you VERBAL permission, then it's up to a J P to decide. He says he's never had an aquittal on these grounds yet . . . . no land-owner has showed up to testify! I don't even question signs like that, nor would I ask a land-owner to make an exception for me . . .. but I WOULD like to see the wording of this law for myself. Yeah h h h . . . . knowing the new books were coming out in late January, I didn't keep the old one . . . a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.

[Big Cliff]

Here you go Steve, it is called "Trespass to Property Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. T.21"

 

 

 

Tresspass to property act

[cisco]

Maybe things have changed over the years since my involvement in the industry, but two pieces of legislation were involved. The Trespass to Property Act and the Occupier's Liability Act . Google em or go to the Gov't of Ontario websites and search them Steve.

Although some places such as Manitoulin Island have MNR-based legislation whereby hunters require signed landowner permission or else get immediately charged (too many hunters used to descend on the island due to high deer popn's) I haven't heard of any such thing applying to anglers wandering around.

 

I do not believe MNR is responsible for these Acts, but had/has input to their changes over the years and its officers can enforce them. I'm guessing they come under the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Planning..... if there is such a thing anymore.... LOL!

[Photoz]

M m m m m m . . . . . nope . . . . the C.O. implied there was a regulation in the Fish & Game Act that specifically mentions 'Fishing On Private Property?' I'm almost sure there is such a law . . . . perhaps I misunderstood what he said? If it was NOT covered (trespassing) by the fishing & hunting bylaws, I highly doubt you'd find MNR employees enforcing it. I read the MNR site regularly, and I KNOW people get charged for hunting on private property . . . . and I'm pretty certain it IS in the regs . . . I guess the best way to get a correct answer would be to call the MNR? Just thought someone might be able to point this out in the fishing regs?

[irishfield]

Steve...even if your buddy says "he knows the guy and has permission to fish here", he didn't get permission for you and thus you'd be tresspassing. The CO up here, Wayne Lintack, knows that if he finds anyone on my property hunting and they can't produce written permission that he has my blessing to charge them with hunting on private property without permission. Probably falls under the same/similar regs that allows them to charge US citizens with tresspassing for camping on Crown Land without a permit.

 

OFAH has a nice simple two part permission form that covers both hunting and fishing.

[JFR]

I know there are regulations that deal specifically with where you can, and cannot fish, private property-wise. I tried several 'GOOGLE' questions, but could not find the specific info I wanted. Basically, if a stream runs through a property that has very readable 'PRIVATE PROPERTY' signs, going in and fishing it obviously is unlawful under MNR Regulations. But, if I'm with a pal, who has told me he knows 'Joe Blow' who owns the property, and has permission . . . . . if the C. O. writes us both up, under what regulation would this come? I'm just curious . . . . I was told by a C. O. that going onto land, clearly marked 'NO TRESPASSING,' means exactly that, and you'll get written up . . . . but if you wish to have the land-owner appear in court, to swear under oath he gave you VERBAL permission, then it's up to a J P to decide. He says he's never had an aquittal on these grounds yet . . . . no land-owner has showed up to testify! I don't even question signs like that, nor would I ask a land-owner to make an exception for me . . .. but I WOULD like to see the wording of this law for myself. Yeah h h h . . . . knowing the new books were coming out in late January, I didn't keep the old one . . . a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.

 

 

Steve,

 

Basically what you are dealing with is the Navigable Waters Act. If you can float a boat down the river, then it is not private property. Unless deeded to the ORIGINAL OWNER by Crown. This is a "Crown Patten" and says the holder owns the land under the water You may float a boat, but you can not step out of the boat onto the stream bottom.

 

On the other hand, the land owner does not own the water, but both sides to the high water mark

 

You may not trespass on land that is posted, and that includes signs and marking, on the perimeter of the land.

 

Here is a link that can explain it.

 

http://www.greybruceoutdoors.com/guestwrit...blewaters.shtml

 

Hope this ramblin has helped.

 

John

Edited April 9, 2007 by Mr JR

[fliptheslop]

Best to always get it in writing as I have done for spots where I hunt that way your not tresspassing you have permission and the forms from the OFAH are good they also give the land owner some peace of mind that you will respect his property,

[Sinker]

If property is posted NO TRESSPASSING.......you need written consent to be on the land. Period.

 

A CO will charge you under the tresspass to property act, but I think the land owner has to lay the charges.

 

Sinker

[Photoz]

I'm sure there's gotta be a passage in the Game & Fish Act that actually spells it out . . . . just can't find it. I found this on the MNR site, which pretty much pertains to what Wayne said about charging trespassers. Unfortunately the l'il stream in question is not navigable . . . . hell, ya can walk across it in spots with ankle boots and not get a wet foot. PRIVATE PROPERTY signs in plain view!

 

TWO HUNTERS FINED $1,600 FOR TRESPASSING

 

KENORA - Two Kenora hunters have been fined $800 each for trespassing on private property while deer hunting.

 

Kirby Funk, 41, and Charles Gilbertson, 52, pleaded guilty under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. Funk's rifle will be returned when his fine is paid. A deer shot by Funk was forfeited to the Crown and donated to charity.

 

The court was told that on November 16, 2006, Funk and Gilbertson were hunting in the area of the hydro line west of Olson Road and south of Oldford Road area in Pellatt Township. Funk shot a deer on private property that had been clearly marked no hunting and no trespassing.

 

The property owner and Funk both called Ministry of Natural Resources to report the incident. Kenora district conservation officers investigated the incident, seized the deer, Funk's rifle and later laid charges against the two men.

 

Justice of the Peace Joe Morrison heard the case in the Ontario Court of Justice, Kenora, on March 20, 2007.[/size]

 

The ministry reminds the public that they must always obtain a landowner's permission before going on to private property for any reason.

[irishfield]

Sounds like the land owner asked for him to be charged Steve...or I'm sure the hunter wouldn't have called in himself. He was confronted and called to confirm his fait. I know the OPP can't lay a tresspassing charge unless the property owner demands it and suspect the MNR is no different....thus why I told our local CO years ago to proceed on sight with my blessing.... to curb the poacher/tresspasser types we have in this area.

 

So Brian...when you come for those turkeys...dont' forget to get me to give you a permission letter or bring the OFAH forms.

[Victor]

i remember someone made a post titled "would you have done something different?" or somewhere along those lines a while back. The general consensus was that if you want to fish/hunt in private properties, it'd be a good idea to get written permission from the land owner.

 

i don't think they can charge you if you have written proof? i couldn't be wrong though :S

[ch312]

If property is posted NO TRESSPASSING.......you need written consent to be on the land. Period.

 

A CO will charge you under the tresspass to property act, but I think the land owner has to lay the charges.

 

Sinker

 

there doesn't need to be any visible signs for you to get charged with trespassing if you are on private property without permission. its your own job to find out who owns the land and then get WRITTEN permission to do whatever on the land.

 

i've been hunting for over 10 years and have had alot of experience with hunting on private property as well as obtaining written permission. it is difficult to find out who actually onws the land sometimes but its definatly worth not causing any problems. you can go on the OFAH website and print some written permission forms that the landowner and yourself sign. written permission is the only thing that will prevent you from being charged with trespassing.

 

there is no difference if you are hunting, fishing, biking, hiking, etc on private property. you still need permission from the landowner in order to be on their land without trespassing.

[ch312]

[i'm sure there's gotta be a passage in the Game & Fish Act that actually spells it out . . . . just can't find it. I found this on the MNR site, which pretty much pertains to what Wayne said about charging trespassers. Unfortunately the l'il stream in question is not navigable . . . . hell, ya can walk across it in spots with ankle boots and not get a wet foot. PRIVATE PROPERTY signs in plain view!

 

the ministry reminds the public that they must always obtain a landowner's permission before going on to private property for any reason

 

im not sure what you are looking for since you already know the answer

[express168]

I believe like said previously it is covered under the trespass to property act, C/O's being provincial officers have the authority to lay a charge under that act.

[POLLIWOGG]

To have someone charged for trespassing on property that is not posted you have to ask them to leave and can charge them if they refuse. The only time you can charge them on the spot is if they are in a cultivated field. At least thats how it works for farmers.

[Photoz]

I FOUND IT!!! Isn't 'GOOGLE' a wonderful thing? I somehow was under the impression the MNR Fishing Regulations and The Fish & Game Act were intermingled . . . . . as in one & the same (it's TERRIBLE to be good looking, with a great personality, but not too swift, eh?) but it was as simple as just punching in 'Ontario Fish & Game Act,' and letting GOOGLE do the work. Although I'd seen quotes before, this is the first chance I'd had to actually read some of it. It makes VERY interesting reading . . . . and it amazes me how much power these C. O.'s have, and can use, at their discression, if ya cross 'em! Not much left to chance in these rules! Thanks for the responses . . . . and sorry I wasn't a bit more clear on what I was actually looking for . . . . . as I wasn't sure myself!

[outdoorguy61]

I had a situation many years ago (hmm....maybe 15-18) in Alberta, where two associates I knew were hunting.

 

They were both a little too enthusiastic, with one fellow shooting a deer on No tresspassing land (he was very excited and did not note a sign in his youthful enthisiasm to get the deer). He went over the fence and had not quite got around to it, when the land owner came and said both being charged. An RCMP officer came and ticketed both. The one that did not actually set foot on the land chose to argue and the other simply paid the fine (very embarrassing for both).

 

The landowner chose not to show up and the gentleman that chose to fight won by having it thrown out. Both fellows were very careful afterwards and both are actually decent fellows. This was around 1988-89.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

 

I am also aware of people abusing the right of access and the collective rights of crown land. Here, I have noted people posting land that is not theirs, or posting crown land. It makes me so mad.......grrrrrr. This is in Eastern Ontario.

 

Just a little tidbit.

 

outdoorguy61

Edited April 10, 2007 by outdoorguy61