Border crossings US / Canada

[jim]

Okay,

Just got in from another ordeal at the longest undefended border!

 

First let me state, that ever since I was a kid, I have been in awe of the US of A and fascinated by this country! Over my career, I have absolutely seen more of the United States than I have of Canada. That's just the way it is. My occupation required me to partake in technical training that was almost always somewhere in the US. I was fortunate enough to come here a lot.

 

Back at the end of March, I was given 2 days notice that I would be spending 10 weeks in Cleveland, Ohio. Now this ain't Palm Beach or anything, just another industrial city where a major manufacturer is located and has their training school.

 

I love my job and am thankful to have the opportunity to be here and learn something new that will make me more valuable at home. The part I wasn't thrilled about, was that I didn't have time to get my home in order for me to be away this long. I already feel like a dolt for not being home when there is so much work to be done around the house this time of year. Fortunately, I have a very supportive and understanding Wife that has always supported me when I had to travel over the last 31 years. She never complains, but I sure don't like leaving her with all the work.

 

The fun started on March 27th. Everyone says "just tell em' you are visiting friends". I say, no way! I am going there for legitimate reasons, I have nothing to hide, and I don't have so much as an outstanding parking ticket against me! Everything went relatively smoothly the first Sunday I crossed. I have a Passport like they want, and I had a letter to the company that I was going to. They let me through with only a few stupid questions! Don't get me wrong here, I am polite as can be and answer everything they ask. They didn't ask for any documentation or anything. I decided that I would make the 6 hour trip home every second week-end and even told the guard this.

 

A few weeks later, I am heading back on a Sunday evening and the Guard says" No! I don't think you have any right to be coming down here for training. Why don't you get this at home? I explain that although the company has offices in Canada, that the training is only offered here. Well he does not like this and says I need a Visa to come down here. I said that i understood that I could not work in the US and that I was being paid by my employer at home. He tells me to hand him my keys and goes off to talk with someone else at another booth. He comes back and says again that I have no right to be doing what I'm doing and that I need to pull into the compound and go inside to speak with Immigration officers. They herd me like cattle into the building and interrogated me for 45 minutes to 1 hour! I again answered the same questions over and over, and listened to what they had to say. In the end, they said I needed to have a letter from my employer and the company that is offering the training. He tells me what the letter has to contain and sends me on my way. I then get yelled at by a female officer for not walking on the correct hatch marks back to my vehicle. No problem, just glad to be on my way!

Oh, when they asked for any documentation, I told them I had it the first week, but did not have it with me. He says that every time i come here, I am knocking on the door and asking for permission to enter, and need to have it. I said okay and said I understood and would comply asap.

 

I went home for Mothers Day last week and when i get back to the border Sunday night. I run into one of the guards that i had previously dealt with, but he had eventually let me go. He is all set to start into me about going in to speak with Immigration again, when i said that I was in there already and that a specific Immigration officer (I remembered his name) had told me to get these two letters and that was all I needed. He backs down and says Okay, go on through.

 

Tonight, ( I had to go back home again this week for a graduation function) the guard says he couldn't read my plate and asks me if I know the numbers. No problem Sir, and I tell him. The camera flashed on my front plate like always. There is nothing obstructing either of my plates. He asks me if I come to the States a lot, and of course i explain everything again, and tell him that in 3 weeks iI will be finished and that I will go home once more on Memorial Day week-end.(I get to miss our Victoria Day long week-end!)

He again asks me what my citizenship is? I thought perhaps that my Canadian passport and Ontario tags were a dead giveaway, but answer politely.

 

I had already offered him my Passport and the two letters. He says great,, and takes them from me! He then tells me to put the vehicle in park, shut the engine off, step out of the vehicle and hand him the keys. The engine was already off, but I comply. A second guard escorts me inside after telling me to empty my pockets on the front seat. I asked for my wallet and he says you are not going anywhere near the vehicle again and to walk this way. He says the computer randomly selected me for a vehicle search. i am asked to sit in a room out of sight and they drove my car into a garage and searched it for about a 1/2 hour! He comes back inside and says that he saw my new PAL certificate in my wallet and is there any weapons in the car? I don't even own one yet! I politely tell him this and he gives me back my stuff and send me on my way!

 

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I am thoroughly PO'd about this and the lustre is really starting to wear off this fine country that I admired so much!!

 

I guess I was so naive that I thought they would be thankful I was coming down here to spend tens of thousands of dollars! After all this is done, I will have to come back to the US in August for two more weeks. I can hardly wait! I think I will just park my car, bend over and place my elbows on the hood, and let them all have a turn with me!

 

I can't imagine trying to bring a boat load of fishing gear across the border! Do our guards treat all of our Southern friends this way when you come up here in June? Is this normal procedure? It is a sad state of affairs if this is what things are coming to with our closest allies and neighbours.

 

I'm hoping someone on here has some inside knowledge of these matters and can shed some light for me! I'm an honest guy who plays by and follows the rules. What the heck do they do with criminals?

 

Thanks (Maybe when the 3 gallons of coffee I drank to get me here wears off,I can get to sleep!) LOL

 

I feel your pain bro. They make you feel like you have t.n.t. strapped to you, as you cross the border.

[irishfield]

You've handled it well Brian! And for anyone else here that crosses regularily I'd follow Brian's example of tolerance. All it takes is pissing off one customs officer... and him typing in the computer DENIED ! Nobody, other than that specific officer can reverse that decission. He is prosecuter, judge and jury and if you ever want back into the USA again be prepared to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on lawyers. There are examples of many that have had to sell their vacation properties on either side of the border, as they can't get to them anymore!

 

 

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Banished+border/4784413/story.html

[fishing]

Went thought once at Lewiston, guards are fine.

Edited May 17, 2011 by fishing

[pikehunter]

Sorry but I really think your WAY off base here....our country was attacked by foreigners on 9/11/01 with THOUSANDS of innocent people killed by terrorist and it's now our duty to protect our country and it's citizens to the fullest extent.

Not really so far off base BB. I am referencing certain particular media people and politicians who pointed their finger at the North and made a big fuss to stir up the kettle. The ones who caused all the trouble on 911 did not enter from Canada and as a matter of fact didn't some of them take flying lessons in the States?

 

Sure the States has the right to let who they choose in and in defence a tightening up of security is a good idea but they are focusing the attention on the wrong people. For God's sake the poster had more than a good enough reason to be crossing the border and the paperwork too. What he had happen to him was harasement. He was doing nothing illegal or made any motion as to an alternative reason to be going to a place he really had no desire to go to in the first place. And yes the Canadian Custom folks can be a P.I.T.A too!

 

Guess I'm also tired of those same people I am talking about making your friendly northern neighbours out as the bad guys, remember we lost citizens on that day too and life here has had some changes. I had a relative who luckily was not there that particular week as he worked in and around the Trade Centre every other week and stayed at the hotel across from there which also was also destroyed. Your homeland is not the only country having to deal with terrorists, Britain and Europe has had a dose of it and remember the Canadian plane bombed over Scotland. Do I watch CNN anymore? No.

 

Suppose that I am offended by some of the thoughts and the results thereof from some of the politicians and media type as I had always considered myself (in particular in my younger years) as much an American as a Canadian due to my background, upbringing, time spent south of the border and a brief spell living in Fla many years ago.

 

I suppose Rattletrap2 could consider himself lucky as they never told him to drop his pants and bend over as the guard slipped on a pair of latex gloves

 

jmho, hope that you don't take my thoughts personally B.Bob, and I wish I could get back to sleep after waking up at 3AM to have a pee!!!

 

See Wayne's link

http://www.vancouver...4413/story.html

Edited May 17, 2011 by pikehunter

[singingdog]

Still sounds to me like border guards doing their job. Imagine that; you told them you were harmless and they didn't just enter that into the computer and wave you through with a smile every subsequent time that you showed up. I'm sure that the folks that they are trying to catch never thought to try that same tactic; "Hey, let's pretend that we are going down for 'training' then they won't hassle us at the border."

 

I imagine this thread would have a very different tone if we were talking about the smuggler or terrorist that got through the border using exactly the same story that you are describing: letter from employer, story about frequent training in the states, harmless looking middle-aged guy with no visible ties to a criminal group. Folks would be ranting about how stupid the border guards were for falling for such a transparent ploy.

[Billy Bob]

Not really so far off base BB. I am referencing certain particular media people and politicians who pointed their finger at the North and made a big fuss to stir up the kettle. The ones who caused all the trouble on 911 did not enter from Canada and as a matter of fact didn't some of them take flying lessons in the States?

 

Sure the States has the right to let who they choose in and in defence a tightening up of security is a good idea but they are focusing the attention on the wrong people. For God's sake the poster had more than a good enough reason to be crossing the border and the paperwork too. What he had happen to him was harasement. He was doing nothing illegal or made any motion as to an alternative reason to be going to a place he really had no desire to go to in the first place. And yes the Canadian Custom folks can be a P.I.T.A too!

 

Guess I'm also tired of those same people I am talking about making your friendly northern neighbours out as the bad guys, remember we lost citizens on that day too and life here has had some changes. I had a relative who luckily was not there that particular week as he worked in and around the Trade Centre every other week and stayed at the hotel across from there which also was also destroyed. Your homeland is not the only country having to deal with terrorists, Britain and Europe has had a dose of it and remember the Canadian plane bombed over Scotland. Do I watch CNN anymore? No.

 

Suppose that I am offended by some of the thoughts and the results thereof from some of the politicians and media type as I had always considered myself (in particular in my younger years) as much an American as a Canadian due to my background, upbringing, time spent south of the border and a brief spell living in Fla many years ago.

 

I suppose Rattletrap2 could consider himself lucky as they never told him to drop his pants and bend over as the guard slipped on a pair of latex gloves

 

jmho, hope that you don't take my thoughts personally B.Bob, and I wish I could get back to sleep after waking up at 3AM to have a pee!!!

 

See Wayne's link

 

PikeHunter, nothing personal here...we are all discussing current events that effect all of us....

 

As you mentioned the OP had papers but you have to remember some of the terrorist also did....I thinking (not sure) they had papers to "STUDY" here in the USA...

 

NOTE: all the terrorist had passports....

 

I think I biggest problem now is we were (Americans/Canadians) so use to traveling back and forth all these years over the boarder in basic unrestricted way that we were spoiled. I remember just months before 9/11 I was traveling to Fort Erie Raceway in Ontario (30 minutes from home) and the couple we were traveling with had a NEXUS pass but could not use it because my wife and I were in the back seat.....I made the comment that maybe they should just have a open boarder.....since the free trade act went through and the basic questions of where were you born and where were you going were basically meaningless these days. BOY DID THAT CHANGE QUICK...

 

BTW....how do we really know if Rattletrap2 got the old prostate exam without a doctor present....

[pikehunter]

.I made the comment that maybe they should just have a open boarder.....since the free trade act went through and the basic questions of where were you born and where were you going were basically meaningless these days. BOY DID THAT CHANGE QUICK...

 

BTW....how do we really know if Rattletrap2 got the old prostate exam without a doctor present....

 

Many of us had the same thoughts at that time. Seemed like the border was going the way of the iron curtain.

 

Prostate exam

 

But not so funny when I go to the urologist next month...Going to be in trouble, he was expecting me to go for a biopsy last year. Gee wonder why I procrastinated about it?

 

Iv'e had it twce before...the last test they shot 11 needles into my prostate for samples. Afer the 6th KAZING I was totally numb and that made the remaining 5 a humiliating memory. Then urinating blood for 2 days after please noooooooo......

 

Those who have only had a colonoscopy don't realize how easy that is until they go for a prostate biopsy.

 

How did I get onto this topic????

[jjcanoe]

My Father-in-law has the same problems more often than not when crossing. he sells and services hi-tech computer and and mechanical control systems for the greenhouse industry. He designs and installs them acording to each indivdual site. basically no two systems are the same and he is considered a specialist. Anytime one of his systems malfunctions through wear or incompetance (someone who has not been properly trained to use the equipment decides to operate things) he needs to trouble shoot over the phone (camera phones are great for this) If the problem can't be remedied then it's off to Detroit Airport to hop the next plane to somewhere. He knows all the crossing rules regarding his situation (probably better than many of the border guards he deals with) Before he leaves for the border he has all the proper documentaion for himself, any gear he has to take (diagnostic tools, fault code readers, electircal stuff etc.) plenty of paperwork also. He's been turned back plenty of times for many reasons, all of which are 100% at the discression of the guard in the booth. If he doesn't like the way you hand him your passport he can deny you entry, if he doesn't like your equipment he can deny you entry, if he doesn't like the colour of your shirt, he can deny you entry. You can have everything in 100% perfect order and still be denied entry. It's all based on their interpretation of the rules...

 

Just like driving, crossing into another country is a privledge not a right. It must be earned and can be taken away.

 

Myself, I've probably crossed thousands of times in the truck (I'm a truck driver) and probably close to 500 times in my personal vehicle (easy to do growing up in a border town and having a US girlfriend for 3 years LOL) I've only ever been searched about 4 or 5 times, all on the Canadian side in my own vehicle and probably a dozen times in the truck (split equally between the Canadian and US sides)

[Rattletrap2]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Banished+border/4784413/story.html

 

Thanks Wayne. Interesting read!

 

 

"BTW....how do we really know if Rattletrap2 got the old prostate exam without a doctor present.... "

 

Bob, I'm actually in need of one of those exams, but to date, non of the Guards look my type! The only female I have dealt with looked like she had bigger hands than the men.They probably would withhold the findings anyways!

 

Singingdog,

I am not pretending anything! I was up front and honest. I offered them anything I could and was prepared to comply with whatever they asked of me. I stayed calm and was always polite despite their rudeness.

 

I just don't understand the purpose of a valid passport? They have all the time in the world at our Immigration Authority to check us out and make sure we are who we say we are before they issue us one. How can the US disregard these documents and worse yet, our Government pardons? Believe me, Canada is not the enemy here!

[SlowPoke]

Rattletrap2, did you look into the DHS-TRIP link I posted?

[NBR]

All I can do is say I'm sorry for the way you were treated. Every organization has some jerks and sadly you ran into some. They can do there job and still be polite. Some people when pressed into a job with a little clout have there hats blown apart by an over inflated ego.

 

 

[irst let me state, that ever since I was a kid, I have been in awe of the US of A and fascinated by this country! Over my career, I have absolutely seen more of the United States than I have of Canada. That's quote name=Rattletrap2' date='16 May 2011 - 12:38 AM' timestamp='1305520694' post='583503]

Okay,

Just got in from another ordeal at the longest undefended border!

 

Fjust the way it is. My occupation required me to partake in technical training that was almost always somewhere in the US. I was fortunate enough to come here a lot.

 

Back at the end of March, I was given 2 days notice that I would be spending 10 weeks in Cleveland, Ohio. Now this ain't Palm Beach or anything, just another industrial city where a major manufacturer is located and has their training school.

 

I love my job and am thankful to have the opportunity to be here and learn something new that will make me more valuable at home. The part I wasn't thrilled about, was that I didn't have time to get my home in order for me to be away this long. I already feel like a dolt for not being home when there is so much work to be done around the house this time of year. Fortunately, I have a very supportive and understanding Wife that has always supported me when I had to travel over the last 31 years. She never complains, but I sure don't like leaving her with all the work.

 

The fun started on March 27th. Everyone says "just tell em' you are visiting friends". I say, no way! I am going there for legitimate reasons, I have nothing to hide, and I don't have so much as an outstanding parking ticket against me! Everything went relatively smoothly the first Sunday I crossed. I have a Passport like they want, and I had a letter to the company that I was going to. They let me through with only a few stupid questions! Don't get me wrong here, I am polite as can be and answer everything they ask. They didn't ask for any documentation or anything. I decided that I would make the 6 hour trip home every second week-end and even told the guard this.

 

A few weeks later, I am heading back on a Sunday evening and the Guard says" No! I don't think you have any right to be coming down here for training. Why don't you get this at home? I explain that although the company has offices in Canada, that the training is only offered here. Well he does not like this and says I need a Visa to come down here. I said that i understood that I could not work in the US and that I was being paid by my employer at home. He tells me to hand him my keys and goes off to talk with someone else at another booth. He comes back and says again that I have no right to be doing what I'm doing and that I need to pull into the compound and go inside to speak with Immigration officers. They herd me like cattle into the building and interrogated me for 45 minutes to 1 hour! I again answered the same questions over and over, and listened to what they had to say. In the end, they said I needed to have a letter from my employer and the company that is offering the training. He tells me what the letter has to contain and sends me on my way. I then get yelled at by a female officer for not walking on the correct hatch marks back to my vehicle. No problem, just glad to be on my way!

Oh, when they asked for any documentation, I told them I had it the first week, but did not have it with me. He says that every time i come here, I am knocking on the door and asking for permission to enter, and need to have it. I said okay and said I understood and would comply asap.

 

I went home for Mothers Day last week and when i get back to the border Sunday night. I run into one of the guards that i had previously dealt with, but he had eventually let me go. He is all set to start into me about going in to speak with Immigration again, when i said that I was in there already and that a specific Immigration officer (I remembered his name) had told me to get these two letters and that was all I needed. He backs down and says Okay, go on through.

 

Tonight, ( I had to go back home again this week for a graduation function) the guard says he couldn't read my plate and asks me if I know the numbers. No problem Sir, and I tell him. The camera flashed on my front plate like always. There is nothing obstructing either of my plates. He asks me if I come to the States a lot, and of course i explain everything again, and tell him that in 3 weeks iI will be finished and that I will go home once more on Memorial Day week-end.(I get to miss our Victoria Day long week-end!)

He again asks me what my citizenship is? I thought perhaps that my Canadian passport and Ontario tags were a dead giveaway, but answer politely.

 

I had already offered him my Passport and the two letters. He says great,, and takes them from me! He then tells me to put the vehicle in park, shut the engine off, step out of the vehicle and hand him the keys. The engine was already off, but I comply. A second guard escorts me inside after telling me to empty my pockets on the front seat. I asked for my wallet and he says you are not going anywhere near the vehicle again and to walk this way. He says the computer randomly selected me for a vehicle search. i am asked to sit in a room out of sight and they drove my car into a garage and searched it for about a 1/2 hour! He comes back inside and says that he saw my new PAL certificate in my wallet and is there any weapons in the car? I don't even own one yet! I politely tell him this and he gives me back my stuff and send me on my way!

 

Sorry for the long winded rant, but I am thoroughly PO'd about this and the lustre is really starting to wear off this fine country that I admired so much!!

 

I guess I was so naive that I thought they would be thankful I was coming down here to spend tens of thousands of dollars! After all this is done, I will have to come back to the US in August for two more weeks. I can hardly wait! I think I will just park my car, bend over and place my elbows on the hood, and let them all have a turn with me!

 

I can't imagine trying to bring a boat load of fishing gear across the border! Do our guards treat all of our Southern friends this way when you come up here in June? Is this normal procedure? It is a sad state of affairs if this is what things are coming to with our closest allies and neighbours.

 

I'm hoping someone on here has some inside knowledge of these matters and can shed some light for me! I'm an honest guy who plays by and follows the rules. What the heck do they do with criminals?

 

Thanks (Maybe when the 3 gallons of coffee I drank to get me here wears off,I can get to sleep!) LOL

[Dara]

US border guards are basically idiots and try to see who can be the worst each shift. There is a law against being a smart ass to US border guards and they try to make you break it.

[Rattletrap2]

Look into a "DHS-TRIP" Dept of Homeland Security - Travelers Redress Inquiry Program

http://www.dhs.gov/files/programs/gc_1169676919316.shtm

 

Slowpoke,

Yes, and I am still reading the info on their site. I worry that once I make a complaint, will it affect my travel even more?

 

Thanks for the link!

[SlowPoke]

Slowpoke,

Yes, and I am still reading the info on their site. I worry that once I make a complaint, will it affect my travel even more?

 

Thanks for the link!

 

I wouldn't think so; an officer at Lewiston brought it to my attention and urged me to apply. I cross everyday and haven't been back to immigration since.

The redress inquiry gives the experts time to look into your situation; ponder, debate, investigate and authorize a green light. A customs officer at a booth has about 30 seconds to decide and will ALWAYS err on the side of caution. With a redress number on your profile I would think the folks in the booth would have to be pretty darn suspicious to override and detain. It's a pre-screening process and it really does make their job easier; not unlike a nexxus or fast card, enhanced drivers licence etc.