Asian Carp

[Flappn]

Did you hear today a transport company was fined $20,000 for trying to bring Asian Carp over the Canadian border? What's the matter with people?

[Live2fish85]

Some people are just Mental, sorry to be so bold but it's true. I don't know why someone would want to ruin or Wildlife and Fisheries.

[Mike Pike]

I wonder if that was the same haul that was on its way to the Markham fish importer who was charged $50,000 for importing the fish( His second offence because he was charged before and fined $40,000 ).

 

Anyhoo, this $20,000 fine was to the American fish company who was bringing the fish over to Canada. Should have been nailed for more!

[Live2fish85]

I think that the compnay should be shut down for good. Its sicking to know that people really don't care about or lakes and rivers and all the other effects that will be caused by the fish.

[Flappn]

Do people really have to eat Asian carp. There are so many other fish to chose from. Why would you risk your business over Asian carp. Oh I know why...cause the penalty is a slap on the wrist. These people know what the ramifications are of getting caught. It must be worth their time or they wouldn't do it.

[aplumma]

I wonder if that was the same haul that was on its way to the Markham fish importer who was charged $50,000 for importing the fish( His second offence because he was charged before and fined $40,000 ).

 

Anyhoo, this $20,000 fine was to the American fish company who was bringing the fish over to Canada. Should have been nailed for more!

 

Here is a little info that is in the article

 

Sean Insley, a conservation officer with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources told the newspaper a tanker truck trying to enter Canada was found to have live carp aboard, although the water had been drained.

 

While I am NOT defending the company their mistake was not making sure that the carp were dead it appears that the intent was to deliver dead Carp to a market that wanted the fish.

 

 

Art

[Flappn]

I have spoken out of line then. Even still...just keep them out of here. Eat something else. We don't need accidents.

[bigugli]

Here is a little info that is in the article

 

Sean Insley, a conservation officer with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources told the newspaper a tanker truck trying to enter Canada was found to have live carp aboard, although the water had been drained.

 

While I am NOT defending the company their mistake was not making sure that the carp were dead it appears that the intent was to deliver dead Carp to a market that wanted the fish.

 

 

Art

It was no mistake. 1) the fish were being smuggled in a tanker. 2) it is known these fish can live for great lengths of time out of water. 3) There is a huge demand for the product in Toronto, but it needs to be live or fresh killed.

[hammercarp]

Here's what I think.

I WISH TO HELL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE NAMED THOSE THINGS SOMETHING OTHER THAN CARP. THAT'S WHAT I THINK.

Edited March 9, 2011 by hammercarp

[danjang]

I have spoken out of line then. Even still...just keep them out of here. Eat something else. We don't need accidents.

 

Really? Eat something else? As long as they aren't breaking any laws ANY cultural group in Canada should be able to eat what ever the hell they want.

[Hud]

Really? Eat something else? As long as they aren't breaking any laws ANY cultural group in Canada should be able to eat what ever the hell they want.

 

 

 

I would venture a guess that if they were issued a fine then they were breaking a law

Edited March 9, 2011 by Hud

[BillM]

Perhaps they might enjoy the taste of Cormorant instead?

[aplumma]

Lots of assumptions here as to the intent of the seller. Innocent till proven guilty seems to not be alive and well here.

 

It will be a long debate when they find that the Asian Carp are finally found in Canada's waterways. Will it be blamed on the USA for having them in the water or the market that wants them to be part of the species in Canada's waterways? Their is a statement that we all can agree on and that is we wish they had never been imported and even more so that they escaped from their impound during one of natures displays of fury. The focus that we need is not the who did what wrong aspect that pops up here every few weeks on the Asian Carp but rather what can be feasible done to mitigate the outcome of their expansion into other waters. We have all dealt with species that have been brought into the eco system and with solid research and sound approaches they have been absorbed with minimal negative impact.

 

 

Art

[DanD]

Really? Eat something else? As long as they aren't breaking any laws ANY cultural group in Canada should be able to eat what ever the hell they want.

 

That’s where the problem is, these “cultural group(s)” are creating the demand for fresh carp and like anything else, someone is going to try and fill that demand; if there’s a buck to be made.

The only way to slow the enviable infestation of these fish is to make the possession and or sale (dead or alive) illegal in Canada; no more “fresh dead” at the markets.

Unless they are in a can on the grocery store’s imported shelf; they should be made illegal for consumption in Canada period!

Get caught with this fish in any form, other then processed and you pay the penalties.

Wherever these cultures acquired the taste for these fish, they likely still sell them in their home land.

 

Dan.

[Flappn]

Ya eat something else! My grandparents are Italian and some of the things they eat....I tell them to east something else. We don't need accidents so someone can enjoy a meal.

[Afraz]

That's where the problem is, these "cultural group(s)" are creating the demand for fresh carp and like anything else, someone is going to try and fill that demand; if there's a buck to be made.

The only way to slow the enviable infestation of these fish is to make the possession and or sale (dead or alive) illegal in Canada; no more "fresh dead" at the markets.

Unless they are in a can on the grocery store's imported shelf; they should be made illegal for consumption in Canada period!

Get caught with this fish in any form, other then processed and you pay the penalties.

Wherever these cultures acquired the taste for these fish, they likely still sell them in their home land.

 

Dan.

 

What sort of culture would enjoy eating, a plankton feeding. Boney as hell fish. After you fillet em, you barely get any meat out (deboned). If calcium is what you're after drink a glass of milk instead of munching on fish bones. Better yet have a spoonful of Nutella it tastes good and is good for you (apparently)..

[danjang]

I would venture a guess that if they were issued a fine then they were breaking a law

 

It isn't illegal to have the meat. They transported it alive which is illegal.

[Mike Pike]

Here is a little info that is in the article

 

Sean Insley, a conservation officer with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources told the newspaper a tanker truck trying to enter Canada was found to have live carp aboard, although the water had been drained.

 

While I am NOT defending the company their mistake was not making sure that the carp were dead it appears that the intent was to deliver dead Carp to a market that wanted the fish.

 

 

Art

Nothing to defend here Art. Making sure the carp were dead wasn't the only problem. See below:

 

"An Indiana company caught bringing live Asian carp into Canada was fined $20,000 Monday in Sarnia, Ont., court. Sweetwater Springs Fish Farm pleaded guilty to possession of an invasive species without a licence, in violation of the Fisheries Act."

[DanD]

It isn't illegal to have the meat. They transported it alive which is illegal.

 

 

That was the whole point of my other post; make the meat illegal and then start dishing out the fines with no mercy.

That would stop all the Bull of we thought they would be dead by the time we got here; yea right you did.

That’s why they used a tanker rather then a refrigerated truck; one that can be easily emptied of water before the boarder and refilled after the crossing.

 

Dan.

[Billy Bob]

We have all dealt with species that have been brought into the eco system and with solid research and sound approaches they have been absorbed with minimal negative impact.

Art

 

Absolutely NOT true...just the zebra mussels alone have change fisheries where ever they are now present by filtering plankton out of the water columns here....zebra mussels have caused BILLIONS of dollars in damage to water intakes all along the Great Lakes and will continue to do so. I could go on and on but anyone who is near or fishes the Great Lakes can tell you the problems invasive species have done here. NOT GOOD ! ! !

 

What I find amusing is the Obama administration is spend millions of dollars to prevent Asian Carp from entering the Great Lakes all while companies are transporting them alive to anywhere they can be sold.....this species should be wiped out in North America and anyone who wants to dine on this species should take a plane to where ever they are originally from and enjoy his/her meal.

[aplumma]

Absolutely NOT true...just the zebra mussels alone have change fisheries where ever they are now present by filtering plankton out of the water columns here....zebra mussels have caused BILLIONS of dollars in damage to water intakes all along the Great Lakes and will continue to do so. I could go on and on but anyone who is near or fishes the Great Lakes can tell you the problems invasive species have done here. NOT GOOD ! ! !

 

What I find amusing is the Obama administration is spend millions of dollars to prevent Asian Carp from entering the Great Lakes all while companies are transporting them alive to anywhere they can be sold.....this species should be wiped out in North America and anyone who wants to dine on this species should take a plane to where ever they are originally from and enjoy his/her meal.

 

I did not say they were good, The water clearing has brought in a different eco system. Look at the small mouth population numbers they have gone thru the roof since the water cleared up. With science we have controlled the Lamprey population also. It is by no means perfect and if we could turn back time I am sure we would do things different. As far as wiping out the carp well you know that is impossible so we have to mount a good defense to minimize our damages. This is not a black and white issue it will have grey areas as most things in life. Please don't get me wrong I am just as unhappy that the carp are their but the threads all seem to be a whine fest instead of a discussion on a real answer.

 

 

Art

[aplumma]

Nothing to defend here Art. Making sure the carp were dead wasn't the only problem. See below:

 

"An Indiana company caught bringing live Asian carp into Canada was fined $20,000 Monday in Sarnia, Ont., court. Sweetwater Springs Fish Farm pleaded guilty to possession of an invasive species without a licence, in violation of the Fisheries Act."

 

Ahh another piece of the story good find Mike thanks for the input.

 

Art

[Billy Bob]

I did not say they were good, The water clearing has brought in a different eco system. Look at the small mouth population numbers they have gone thru the roof since the water cleared up. With science we have controlled the Lamprey population also. It is by no means perfect and if we could turn back time I am sure we would do things different. As far as wiping out the carp well you know that is impossible so we have to mount a good defense to minimize our damages. This is not a black and white issue it will have grey areas as most things in life. Please don't get me wrong I am just as unhappy that the carp are their but the threads all seem to be a whine fest instead of a discussion on a real answer.

Art

 

I somewhat agree with this post (except about the smallies). But your fist quote of "have been absorbed with minimal negative impact" is the part I have the most trouble with.....just the HUGE costs alone can't be described as minimal negative impact.

 

Lake Eries Smallmouth population (I believe your referring to Erie) has always been tremendous....it's only now that it's being recognized throughout the fishing world due to several major bass tournaments held on Erie. I don't believe water clarity has anything to do with that, however the clear water changes the way you have to approach fishing ANYTHING on Lake Erie now, something we didn't have to deal with before the zebra mussel invasion of the early 80's.

[Headhunter]

I don't beleive that the carp were being brought into Canada live, to be consumed... now, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but as I recall, the carp are seen as harbingers of "good luck" to newly married couples and releasing them into the wild is a way of appeasing the "luck gods".

So, it's been said that during a wedding ceremony, the lucky couple and the entourage will go to the waters edge and release the carp, hoping that it will bring prosperity to the couple.

That's what I heard, but again, as usual, I may be wrong.

Perhaps one of our fine memebers here, who have some knowledge of Asian customs, could help here by shedding some light?

Regardless, IMHO, if it aint in a can, it shouldn't be allowed into the counrty... there is simply too much risk involved.

HH

[aplumma]

I somewhat agree with this post (except about the smallies). But your fist quote of "have been absorbed with minimal negative impact" is the part I have the most trouble with.....just the HUGE costs alone can't be described as minimal negative impact.

 

Lake Eries Smallmouth population (I believe your referring to Erie) has always been tremendous....it's only now that it's being recognized throughout the fishing world due to several major bass tournaments held on Erie. I don't believe water clarity has anything to do with that, however the clear water changes the way you have to approach fishing ANYTHING on Lake Erie now, something we didn't have to deal with before the zebra mussel invasion of the early 80's.

 

If you have a bomb that is going to go off then you do as much as you can to minimize the damage. If it was going to kill 100 people and cause a building to fall then to me saving the people and not losing ALL of the building is classified as minimal impact. Any time you can keep the percentage of damage under 50% of uncontrolled damage is a win in most statistical issues. The cost of the damage( invasive species) needs to be weighed against the savings( moving products by water) of the product. What would be the cost to the nations long term if we never open the canal that allows commerce in? We would be spending the money on transporting in a different fashion that has equaled or passed the cost of the mussel removal. See you can't talk Black and White on some issues because the answers are dynamic and changing as we speak. The small mouth explosion was because the fish is a clear water fish and as the water cleared they prospered. The forage base increased as the water was cleaned up and the predator base Salmonoids became less intense. The smallmouth fisheries is something I am taking as true statements made from articles that I have read not because I have fished them. I know it is your area to fish so I might be wrong Bob.

 

 

Art