The Great Global Warming Swindle

[Andy]

Links to save and read on a rainy day.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guar.../14/warming.pdf

http://www.scienceservingsociety.com/p/150.htm

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=12379

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/William...20/fire,_or_ice

No further comment from me really. I find Lowell Ponte's comments interesting, as he was one of the lead proponents of global cooling in the '70's. I also find the top link most interesting, as this scientist seems to think that regardless of whether we are or are not causing global warming, we'd be better off spending money to adapt to it rather than spend the same money trying to prevent it or reverse it. My last post on the subject. Peace. Andy

[Chris]

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (8).

 

And all have recently received or are asking for major government funding to study climate change (on top of the funding they are already getting).

 

The scientific consensus might, of course, be wrong.

 

Kinda says it all right there.

 

I'm done with this thread too, but I'll leave you with the famous words of P.T. Barnum:

 

"There's a sucker born every minute".

 

p.s. Thanks for the links Andy (and everyone else who put up links)

[bigfish1965]

The biggest problem I have with this whole issue, is exactly what so many have touched on, and if I sound bitter with this statement, I am, I will not give up my right to have the things in life that make my happy and comfortable, and he is my reason. CANADA'S IMPACT ON GLOBAL WARMING(even if it is true)IS SO LITTLE THAT IF WE ALL LIVED IN TENTS,AND RODE BIKES WOULD NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENTS AT ALL.

And Rick all of the above statements,the temp is rising at temps never seen before,storms are more severe, lake Superior is lowwer than it has ever been,weather is more extreme,and pretty much all the rest,these statements are all just since man started keeping records, lets say 100 years, has this ever happened before, geologists believe it has.

 

The beauty of a debate like this is,( AND CHECK THE POSTS ON HERE)that because we dont believe the theory behind global warming, we dont do our homework, are ignorant,Have our heads up our ..., Well we have history on our side. And none of us are out there are blatently harming the earth. So if, ifs,maybes,possiblities,could happens, and theorys, are what you want to believe, you have that right, but for me, thats not good enough. I will not take the blame for what I can not control, world population,countries polluting,countries not able to feed themselves.

 

You are likely right that if we all gave up our vehicles in Canada it may mean nothing on a global level. If we all decided to poach fish every day, it would likely also mean nothing on a global level. But there is certainly more to a society than the demonstrable results of their response to challenges. The payback will not occur in our lifetime. It will be given to our ancestors. But no one is talking about going back to horse and buggy days. We are talking about using our technology to come up with better ways of doing things.If you had a hydrogen powered car, it would be just as fast and just as powerful, but create no pollution.

You don't actually have a 'right' to the things you mentioned. Those things are privileges. As such they can be taxed, usurped or otherwise restricted.

The climactic changes recorded do not rely on man's use of a thermometer. It is quite well done through studies in ice growth, tree growth, geological sedimentation study and other methods I could not possible understand. The information is out there and is heavily peer reviewed and is as accurate as we can possibly make it.

Most of the world does not believe in many things Canada does. It is no reason to abandon our collective ideology and decide to turn the earth into a sewer. Canada has long been a very 'green' country. This is in part due to our connection with our lakes, rivers and forests and our traditions of fishing and hunting. We as sportsmen and women get to see, every single day, the result of irresponsible handling of the resources.

You cannot seperate global warming from air pollution...there are inexorably related.

 

The real root of opposition to counter-measures and to remediation is not ideological difference, but money. The oil companies know they are a target and more fuel efficient vehicles, alternative fuels and renewable resources will bring about their demise. They also know that fossil fuels are the biggest contributor to pollution. This is why they are almost exclusively the funders of counter reports to global warming. Other companies know their outdated equipment would need to be replaced. Look at Stelco and Dafasco. For many years they were fairly big polluters. New laws came into effect and they somehow managed to comply and clean up their act. It is the nature of business to resist costs.

There are still people who believe the earth is less than 5,000 yrs old and can come up with some pretty compelling sounding evidence. Does that make them right? No. The vast majority of the legitimate scientific community believes the earth is billions of years old. Who are you going to believe?

Our governments (US and Canada) can inflict change on the bigger polluters (India and China) by demanding certain protocols and by having standards for materials imported. We are likely going to see changes come out of the Menu Foods problem, so perhaps this is as good a time as any to pursue a cleaner agenda.

It does us no good to have stricter laws which create higher prices until technology catches up, if we then allow imports from countries that are not on a level playing field. Not only do we affect our standards, but we simply shift the pollution problem overseas.

[walleyejigger]

WOW. i spent a long weekend working a looooong hockey tournament, got little sleep and am sore as !#$^%, figured i'd spend a small relaxing part of my one day off catching up on some OFC reading, now my brain is broken, I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY!

 

put the keyboard and mouse down and go enjoy the fresh air while we still got it

[Puckhead]

It does us no good to have stricter laws which create higher prices until technology catches up, if we then allow imports from countries that are not on a level playing field. Not only do we affect our standards, but we simply shift the pollution problem overseas.

 

Exactly why Kyoto is a non starter. We won't sacrifice our lifestyles in the west. We want technology to fix the problem. The technology isn't available and by the time it is, we will all have moved on to another issue with more political capital. Perhaps global cooling in 2012?

[Guest lundboy]

It's unbelievable that people are responding in this thread in defense of humans being the sole cause of Global Warming, some even regurgitating the 2500 IPCC Scientist report (that wasn't even released by the time the UN made their report), and they haven't watched the video at the link at the beginning of this thread! It's obvious they didn't because if they did they would know that at least two of the scientists in this documentary were part of the IPCC 2500 that worked on the report. One even threatened to SUE the UN IPCC panel to remove his name from the report because they changed his conclusions to suit the GW bandwagon. And funny the scientists in this documentary don't seem to be on big oil or big corp payrolls, hmmm..... Some Canadian too!

 

Anyways this about says it all:

 

"The Planet is fine" By George Carlin

 

http://www.habitablezone.com/flame/messages/420992.html

Edited March 26, 2007 by lundboy

[jughead]

As near as I can figure if two guys are in a burning house they can either spend their time arguing about who started the fire or they can spend their time trying to put the fire out.

 

As for the counter global warming science, I can also find you a 1/2 library full of scientific reports by highly respected and highly accredited scientists from some of the most hallowed halls of academia who once signed their names to studies saying that smoking cigarettes wasn't harmful.

 

I watched a news report the other night featuring a world renowned PHD in anthropology who fully believes there is a large bredding population of sasquatches in North America. I have met Stanton Friedman a former NASA employee with a PhD in Nuclear Physics who genuinely believes space aliens visit earth all the time and that there is a vast multi-government conspiracy to deny it. Both these men are highly educated and accredited scientists. Both are also so very, very wrong.

[Headhunter]

I think it's fair to say that there are compelling arguements for both sides of this contentious issue. I tend to reflect on the past when weighing out the information presented, before considering my position.

My past experience has told me that whenever there are two sides to an issue, somewhere in the middle, is where the truth lies!

On the side of the "green" folks, ie global warming is killing the planet, I feel that they are being bombarded by the media and special interest groups whose own self preservation is fueling the carbon fire!

On the side of the "anti's", global warming is a farce, I see special interest groups and only recently, media reports condeming those who believe that Global Warming is upon us!

So, here I am, standing in the middle, trying to decipher whose right, who's wrong and which camp should I join? Well, now the cynic in me rises to the surface! And funny enough, my cynical self is renowned to be CHEAP! The doom and gloom sayers, from what I can tell, will do what comes naturally to them, spend someone else's money! The nay sayers just want me to continue to spend my money the way I have been! As an individual, I can't win!

My trust in governments and the private sector leaves alot to be desired! They are only in it, what ever it is, for themselves. I believe that we should all do anything we can to limit our effect on OUR environment, but I also believe that alternatives need to be provided, before we all throw our hands in the air and simply buy into everything that's being said.

My biggest target right now are the people who are once again. playing to the insecurities of others. These are the people we all need to take notice of! The folks who are profiteering from this should be shot!

As I write this note, I keep coming back to the same question that keeps running through my mind... I wonder how many people are picketing in front of the White House right now, in either of these camps;

-global warming

-the war in Iraq!

Funny how people in power can direct the publics attention away from one topic, onto another, with the right help! Can you imagine the pressure the White House would be under if both of the above camps joined forces to form a singular focused politcal lobbyist? How many people out there right now are actually scared by the global warming issue? Fightened people are much easier to direct, then those who are not.

HH

[irishfield]

I usually stay out of these threads but I had to respond to this one comment that has nothing to do with global warming...OR DOES IT as "they" search for another planet to live on since destroying their own...

 

I have met Stanton Friedman a former NASA employee with a PhD in Nuclear Physics who genuinely believes space aliens visit earth all the time and that there is a vast multi-government conspiracy to deny it. Both these men are highly educated and accredited scientists. Both are also so very, very wrong

 

If anyone believes that we're the only "round ball"....mysteriously levitating in space....with a living population on it, or from it....you're living too far inside yourself. Think a little more outside the box. Consider how far aircraft have evolved on this planet in a mere hundred years. Think of where we'll be with space exploration behind people like Rutan's followers, a 100 years further into the future. A 20KB computer filled a large room in 1975 and I still have some tape reels from it......now you carry 30GB in your pocket or stare at it on your boat helm. Can you not envision "Warp Factor 5 Scotty" as a reality in the near future. Consider another solar system in a galaxy close by that's say a mere 500 years or even a 1000 years ahead of our evolution. They are there, and they have been here. A jet load of workers get delivered to area 51 every day to work and they ain't building cars.... Captain Wayne signing out... LOL

Edited March 26, 2007 by irishfield

[jughead]

Oh, I don't believe we are the only little round ball floating around. My world and life view isn't that myopic. But I also don't believe little grey men are descending upon us constantly and that over the course of the last 60 years the many tens of thousands of people who would have had to keep the secret have managed to keep their mouth shut. Like global warming, just because I don't buy into one extreme doesn't mean i throw the baby out with the bath water. I'm sure there is life out there. I am also sure they aren't constantly mutilating cows, doing odd things with people bottoms, etc.

[Joey]

I agree Wayne ! Beam me up scotty, I can't take this debate any longer

 

Joey

[Headhunter]

Hey Wayne, if you were a little green man from another planet, would you visit earth!? Personally, I'd go out further seeking intelligent life!LOL

HH

[irishfield]

Personally Joe...I'd crash land the bugger on a beach in Brazil !

[Terry]

beam me up Scotty

there's no intelligent life here

 

I no can do that captain, the green house gases are deflecting the transporter beam, it's going to blow

[Headhunter]

LOL

HH

[irishfield]

[Puckhead]

hahaha!

[Rippinlips]

I just now finished reading this from beginning to end and my head is aching and my eyes are watering. Good read none the less.I hope my grammar is perfect and I ran upstairs and turned off a couple lights as well....you get the point.

 

I can remember when we didnt know or really care that smoking was bad,George Burns was 100 what? when he died smoking big fatties and sipping burbon was it all his life?? a 22 year old athlete,never smoked or drank has his heart explode while out for a morning jog...makes ya wonder. Or drinking milk was good ,no bad,no good. eggs are full of protein and good for you,dont eat them your colestoral will sky rocket..now again eggs are great, or not ahhhhhhhhhhh. Personally, I eat eggs,drink a bit of milk and absolutely will not give up my Captain Black Sweet cigars while out fishing. all personal choices,probably not the best ones but mine none the less. Who are we really trusting to guide us in so many of our day to day activities??It can get damn confusing.

 

Simple point from all of this for me is the need to make educated decisions in every day life(and im guilty of not always doing that as we all are). I can see valid points from both sides. No I dont want to give up driving my small block 350(however gas prices might kill me first lol) yet I recycle religiously and compost as well. Where do I fit in? Am I evil because I drive a big truck to pull my boat that I worked my butt off to enjoy??. It seems we have so many people leaning hard to one side or the other of the argument...middle ground maybe?? or is there one? so many questions and very few proven solutions, hence the headache

 

I guess in the end,if this planet decides tommorow to self destuct there isnt a whole lot this cat can do about it. In the meantime, if shutting off a light or putting a plastic bottle in a recycle bin somehow delays the worlds end than hey who am I to argue. Its not going to hurt me one bit to live a little smarter or anyone else for that matter. Touchy subject for sure.

[ryanheritage]

The world was flat, that was common knowledge until Chris Columbus sailed around it.. Be careful not to have an open mind or else you could fall off the edge of the earth.

[Roy]

The hell you say!!!! ROUND???

[Pinch]

and that over the course of the last 60 years the many tens of thousands of people who would have had to keep the secret have managed to keep their mouth shut.

 

But they have havent they? The workers have kept their mouths shut because we still have no idea whats done there! (area 51)

[Gerry]

Well, this is a good read in today's news: Global Warming Report Released

[OhioFisherman]

You people are doing a great job of keeping this civil! It is a debate and everyone will have their own opinion on it.

 

LOL Wayne will you have fuel for the plane? Might have to stock up on rubber bands? The 3 gorges dam they are building in China is supposed to hold enough water(weight) to alter (slightly) the orbit of the Earth. We open pandora`s box and then try to figure out the problems inside that are released?

 

LOL if Canada cuts it`s emissions we might not have to? I am just guessing, but I don`t think the US will do anything that might affect their role as a super power? Once you have it, it`s hard to give it up? China is doing the same, just took a bit longer to get there.

[blairwill]

remember the hole in the ozone layer caused by those cfc's. What happened, did it close up? that's great ,put down your sun block.It,s probably no coincidence that Duponts 25 year world wide patent on cfc was running out. lucky for us they came out with a NEW cfc that doesn't hurt the ozone layer ( I think ) . What, a new 25 year world wide patent. great news

[Bob]

Ozone is funny stuff. In the upper atmosphere, it's wonderful stuff but at ground level, it's pollution. I don't know if CFCs made the holes at the poles in the ozone layer but it strikes me that the ozone layer thins and thickens pretty regularly. Maybe it's something that's been going on forever? I was born a redhead and sunburn has been something I lived with all my life. From about 1950, I've seen many cycles where for a few years I've had to be real careful and then for a few years it was no problem. Been back and forth like that since I was a little kid.

 

In the late 40s and early 50s, every country with the capacity was testing atom bombs and hydrogen bombs. All looking for the biggest stick. Megatons of radioactive dust were pumped into the atmosphere and it spread worldwide. Suddenly certain diseases were spiking, the most noticable being lung cancer but diabetes was in there too. Into the early 60s, there was a mad scramble of scientists looking for something (other than radiation which we KNOW causes cancer) to blame it on and they chose tobacco.

 

Now, since about 1990 the US is testing and using "depleted" uranium ammunition and atmospheric radiation is rising again. Once again, there's a big push to demonise tobacco in the last 10 or 15 years. Now this depleted uranium is great stuff, it penetrates stuff real well, specifically tank armour and underground bunkers. The only problem is, it puts radioactive dust into the atmosphere and has a half life of about 4 billion years.

 

Bees are disappearing worldwide and there's fear that soon there won't be enough of them to pollinate crops. Some folks think this has something to do with genetically modified crops with the built in pesticide. Pollen from these gm crops blows around and it's spreading these genetics everywhere. Farmers in the western provinces are being sued by Monsanto because their GM crap has been found growing in ditches beside their fences and they aren't licensed to grow the stuff. Who'd want to?

 

Forgive me for being a cynic but I saw the coming ice age headlines 30 years ago and I think there are far bigger problems today than what's coming out of my tailpipe.