CFL bulbs

[Entropy]

So, I have in vested about $100 in CFL (compact florescent light) bulbs. I have got them in every light in the house.

 

#1

My Brother-in-law says that he heard they may actually use more power than they say they do... something along the line of using the current and stepping it up or down or something .... says that if the bulbs power ????? (can’t recall the work) is below 0.6 or 0.5 then the bulb is not all that efficient. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE, can anyone corroborate this?

 

#2

I heard on the radio that some bulbs when they burn out actually burn on the base and may emit a burning smell, and that the “fire marshal” is investigating the safety of these bulbs and the possibility that they may cause a fire (even thought there been no documented cases of this in Ontario yet). Then in the same radio blurb, they said that they should only be used in ‘open’ fixtures because they get hot. What the Heck !! 1/3 of mine are in flush mount light fixtures, ie, not open. Don’t the old incandescent get hotter ???

 

Needless to say I’m feeling a little frustrated.

 

Any Insight?

 

Entropy

Edited March 22, 2007 by Entropy

[ccmtcanada]

We converted all light bulbs in our house to CFL over a year ago. We haven't had any burn out yet, but I too heard that news report on once the do burn out there may be a fire hazard. This would be a huge blow to the energy conservation movement if they dont act on this quickly...esp since some areas (I believe Australia and others are considering it) are banning the outright use of incandescent light bulbs.

[Puckhead]

I can't stand the light CFL gives off - gives me a head ache. I'll have to get used to it at some point I suppose but it really bugs me...

 

What happened to global cooling anyway? 30 years ago that was all the rage, now it's global warming... why can't we just meet in the middle and call it global room temperaturing?

Edited March 22, 2007 by Puckhead

[Entropy]

just found this.

 

http://www.ofm.gov.on.ca/english/publicati...005/2005-20.asp

 

Entropy

Edited March 22, 2007 by Entropy

[Entropy]

this too.

 

http://www.ofm.gov.on.ca/english/publicati...004/2004-28.asp

[Entropy]

one more...

 

http://www.ofm.gov.on.ca/english/publicati...006/2006-08.asp

 

Entropy

[ketchenany]

I too have a lot of fixtures converted, hopefully the report is not accurate. But one thing, when you drop one of $3.00 bulbs you haven't saved very much! Was I ever ticked when it hit the floor <_<

[OhioFisherman]

I have put them in all my fixtures except a remote control ceiling fan. The only problem I have had is some fail real quickly, won`t start, or start and go out and come back on a short period later.

 

The customer service number on the bulbs sends out replacements for them, good service. They have a program on tv here called mythbusters, they did a show on light bulbs and the CFLS were more efficient.

 

I also used to pick up and deliver to GE lighting here in Cleveland, they have various styles of bulbs hooked up to electric meters with switches, the CFLS again were more efficient.

 

First I have heard about fire problems with them, I will check some US sites.

[Entropy]

Sent an email to OPA. (it appears below)

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

 

From : xxxx Ontario CECO <[email protected]>

Sent : March 20, 2007 1:16:02 PM

To : xxxx

Subject : RE: CFL bulbs

 

| | | Inbox

 

 

Good Afternoon Mr. xxxx,

 

Thank you for your interest in contributing to the province's culture of conservation.

 

We are launching the Every Kilowatt Counts coupon program once again this Spring. A 12-page booklet will be mailed to approximately 4.3 million Ontario households. The booklet will contain information, education and tips about how to conserve electricity. This booklet will also include instant discount coupons, which will be valid at participating retail stores throughout the province.

 

Making the right choice on which bulbs you should replace will maximize your savings. For maximum energy savings, consider purchasing CFLs for every possible application. At a minimum, replace bulbs that you use the most. As well you should look for the ENERGY STAR symbol for the most energy efficient choices.

 

They can be installed indoors or outdoors. The package will tell you where the CFL can be used. You'll find CFLs to fit almost all fixtures, from ceiling units to standing lamps. A good idea is to start installing CFLs in areas where lights are on longest, such as the kitchen, family room and outdoors. Many people install CFLs in hard-to-reach areas because they don't have to be changed as often.

 

Here I have attached a guide for replacing your bulbs and a cost comparison chart for your personal information.

 

 

 

Guide for replacing an incandescent bulb with a CFL

Equivalent

light output

Incandescent Compact

fluorescent

25 W 5-6 W

40 W 10 W

60 W 15W

75 W 20W

100 W 29W

150 W 38W

Important Note: CFLs contain mercury. When the bulbs do finally burn out, check with your local municipality for proper disposal.

 

 

Calculate the real cost

Compare the real cost of a 60-watt incandescent light bulb with a 15-watt ENERGY STAR qualified CFL. See for yourself how a CFL will recover your costs and more through energy savings.

Real-Cost Calculator 60-Watt Incandescent 15-Watt ENERGY STAR Qualified CFL

Initial cost (a) 50¢ $6.99

Light output (lumens) 800 800

Life (hours) 1000 9000

Replacement light bulbs ( 8 @ 50¢ = $4.00 –

Lifetime electricity cost © 9000 hrs. @ 60 W 9000 hrs. @ 15 W

@ 8¢/kWh = $43.20 @ 8¢/kWh = $10.80

Total lifetime cost (a + b + c) $47.70 $17.79

Lifetime savings – $29.91

Note: This table is provided as a guide only. It also does not take into account the crossover effect of heat generated by incandescent lighting.

 

 

We would once again like to thank you for your interest in conservation, should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Regards,

 

xxxx

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: xxxx

Sent: Tue 20/03/2007 12:52 PM

To: xxxx- Ontario CECO

Subject: CFL bulbs

 

 

I would like to buy some ultra mini C.F.L.'s but at $4 a bulb I can not afford them. Last fall I bought some and use an instant rebate coupon.

 

Is there anyway to buy them at a lower or reduced price.

 

Thanks.

xxxx

[Terry]

well I changed over all mine

and in Bradford with the poor electric/brown outs and power spikes we get here, I find the CFLs last about 10X as long as the others ...I am happy with them

my wife doesn't like them in the spot she reads, not bright enough and hard on the eyes..I told her that's what the public library is for.......lol.................I will pay for that one

[Entropy]

Some more info from OPA:

 

"Ontario program sparks sales of 2.8 million CFL lightbulbs"

 

http://www.powerauthority.on.ca/Page.asp?P...;ContentID=5239

 

Entropy

[OhioFisherman]

Home Depot has deals on them, a 6 pack of 14w=60w for around 10 bucks here.

[OhioFisherman]

http://www.execulink.com/~impact/globe13watt.htm

[Entropy]

huh... thanks for the link.

[Guest lundboy]

Here's an excerpt and link to an article from UK Daily Mail that explains some of the problems with CFL bulbs:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

 

"So what are the disadvantages of CFLs over the traditional bulbs we will no longer be allowed to buy? Quite apart from the fact that the CFLs are larger, much heavier and mostly much uglier than familiar bulbs - and up to 20 times more expensive - the vast majority of them give off a harsher, less pleasant light.

 

Because they do not produce light in a steady stream, like an incandescent bulb, but flicker 50 times a second (60 in Canada), some who use them for reading eventually find their eyes beginning to swim - and they can make fast-moving machine parts look stationary, posing a serious safety problem.

 

Fluorescent CFLs cannot be used with dimmer switches or electronically-triggered security lights, so these will become a thing of the past. They cannot be used in microwaves, ovens or freezers, because these are either too hot or too cold for them to function (at any temperature above 60C degrees or lower than -20C they don't work),

 

More seriously, because CFLs need much more ventilation than a standard bulb, they cannot be used in any enclosed light fitting which is not open at both bottom and top - the implications of which for homeowners are horrendous.

 

Astonishingly, according to a report on 'energy scenarios in the domestic lighting sector', carried out last year for Defra by its Market Transformation Programme, 'less than 50 per cent of the fittings installed in UK homes can currently take CFLs'. In other words, on the Government's own figures, the owners of Britain's 24 million homes will have to replace hundreds of millions of light fittings, at a cost upwards of £3billion.

 

In addition to this, low energy bulbs are much more complex to make than standard bulbs, requiring up to ten times as much energy to manufacture. Unlike standard bulbs, they use toxic materials, including mercury vapour, which the EU itself last year banned from landfill sites - which means that recycling the bulbs will itself create an enormously expensive problem.

 

Perhaps most significantly of all, however, to run CFLs economically they must be kept on more or less continuously. The more they are turned on and off, the shorter becomes their life, creating a fundamental paradox, as is explained by an Australian electrical expert Rod Elliott (whose Elliott Sound Products website provides as good a technical analysis of the disadvantages of CFLs as any on the internet).

 

If people continue switching their lights on and off when needed, as Mr Elliott puts it, they will find that their 'green' bulbs have a much shorter life than promised, thus triggering a consumer backlash from those who think they have been fooled.

 

But if they keep their lights on all the time to maximise their life, CFLs can end up using almost as much electricity from power stations (creating CO2 emissions) as incandescent bulbs - thus cancelling out their one supposed advantage.

 

In other words, in every possible way this looks like a classic example of kneejerk politics, imposed on us not by our elected Parliament after full consultation and debate, but simply on the whim of 27 politicians sitting around that table in Brussels, not one of whom could have made an informed speech about the pluses and minuses of what they were proposing."

[Guest lundboy]

I can't stand the light CFL gives off - gives me a head ache. I'll have to get used to it at some point I suppose but it really bugs me...

 

What happened to global cooling anyway? 30 years ago that was all the rage, now it's global warming... why can't we just meet in the middle and call it global room temperaturing?

 

The EU has just passed a mandatory ban on conventional light bulbs.... It'll happen worldwide.

 

Global Cooling, Global Warming.... All comes from the same people. There's an agenda on both. Al Gore didn't put together "An Inconvenient Truth" just to save the planet. Have a look at this video (watch the whole thing):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU

 

Then have a look at what Mr. Gore has been putting together in London (England).... Setting up a "Carbon Swap" investment fund to make money from companies and people buying "Carbon Credits" once the UN mandates the Carbon Credit TAX System. His movie will help push the legislation through.

 

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3411blood_n_gore.html

 

Sorry, I got all political there for a moment....

[Entropy]

Look at that, this topic was on the news last night.

[Guest lundboy]

Yep they do give off way less heat than a conventional bulb. But man do they get hot! I had one in an enclosed ceiling fixture (philips 17W) that was on for a couple of hours. I decided that I would take it out and use it somewhere else and that bulb and ballast was AS HOT as any regular bulb! To the point that the plastic on the ballast was sagging and yellowish brown.

 

I think everyone has to remember that conventional bulbs are made of glass and metal with a bit of epoxy or some other adhesive. Those materials are made to withstand high heat. Obviously the plastics covering the ballast won't/don't withstand the heat generated in an enclosed fixture. Plus there probably is some kind of degradation of the gas inside the tube if it gets too hot without proper ventilation.

 

I know in my enclosed fixtures the CFL bulbs only last about 18 months without them being constantly on.

[Chris]

lundboy thanks for that link. Very interesting.

[Corey]

Firing a ballast in a flourescent bulb or fixture uses approximately 6 hours of running power that the flourescent fixture consumes. If you have a 6w CFL and turn it in, it will use 24w just to fire the bulb. So if you turn on and off a CFL more than 4 times a day, you are better off to leave it on the entire 24hr period.

 

As well, until they can build a CFL that will withstand the cold of a Canadian winter, there should be no way that we are forced to use CFL's outdoors. They just aren't reliable in sub-zero temperatures.

 

Another hint is to find bulbs that have instant firing. You can get ones that ramp up to full brightness over a period of several minutes, or ones that fire to full brightness almost instantly.

 

cd.

[danc]

On a related topic, I heard on the radio today that Toronto home owners have become very efficient at conserving power. The new "smart meters" are working better than expected. So much better, in fact, that the revenues for Toronto Hydro are down so much that they have to jack up the rates to bring the revenues back up. Go figure...

[Golfisher]

On a related topic, I heard on the radio today that Toronto home owners have become very efficient at conserving power. The new "smart meters" are working better than expected. So much better, in fact, that the revenues for Toronto Hydro are down so much that they have to jack up the rates to bring the revenues back up. Go figure...

 

Either way, we get screwed.

[Terry]

I hope that was a joke Danc

[Headhunter]

No joke Terry! I heard it on the news the other day. They may call the charge a "excessive conversation tax" just like the debt reduction tax.

HH

[Puckhead]

That does not make any sense, as CFL lighting generates substancialy less heat than the old incandescent bulbs.

 

I used to work fer a major lighting company a few years ago, and took some lighting courses, and at the the time, the technology required that you match up the bulb with a suitable ballast, in order to maximize the lighting source. Not sure about the CFL on the market now, except I can say with certainty that it is not some government scheme. You will save energy as the electricity used to power the bulb is converted to light energy as opposed to heat energy in the incandescent bulbs.

 

With regards to the CFL producing a " Harsher" light, all you need to do is go to a store that supplies a wide variety of of lighting products, and choose a bulb that produces a " Warmer" light in the Red spectrum, as opposed to the "Colder" light generated by a Blue Spectrum light more suited to say yer kitchen or washroom.

 

How can I determine which on is red and which one is blue? I was at home depot the other day and I couldn't figure out what was what? I want to give the red spectrum lights a try.