Any Plumbers on the board?

[scugpg]

All I was wondering if someone has a plumbing background if I could shoot them a PM. Have some questions about an oddball setup for running a dishwasher drain line.

 

Thanks.

[Spiel]

Aplumma and Daplumma are plumbers and I'm sure will help you as soon as they see this post.

[Harrison]

Isn't GCD one as well? I recall seeing a picture of him and his truck once.

[jimmer]

All I was wondering if someone has a plumbing background if I could shoot them a PM. Have some questions about an oddball setup for running a dishwasher drain line.

 

Thanks.

Was one years ago, maybe I can be of assistance. PM me with your issue and I will let you know if I can help.

[Fisherman]

All I was wondering if someone has a plumbing background if I could shoot them a PM. Have some questions about an oddball setup for running a dishwasher drain line.

 

Thanks.

What.. a secret question..trying to drain your dishwasher into the neighbours shower..

[aplumma]

you can send a p.m. or just ask here I will help if I can.

 

 

Art

[TennesseeGuy]

Yeah, ask the question on the thread so we can all benefit from the response. If the answer is beneficial to me I'll even chip in on the couple of boxes of beer we'll send to Art for his professional advice.

[scugpg]

Ok guys here goes it.

 

Put in a dishwasher in a temporary spot in the kitchen until we redo it. It currently sits across the room from any plumbing. I decided to route the drain line from the DW through the floor, into a trap and across the basement and tap into the kitchen drain below the trap. First mistake: I didn't make a high enough loop behind the DW and although it worked most of the time, it ended up draining out during the cycle and I think I may have ruined the pump. Pretty sure that putting it below the kitchen trap could cause a siphon as well.

 

Since then I've made as loop as high as the cabinet behind the DW and it does down & across (no trap) and just into the laundry tub for the last week. It is still intermittently running out of water during the cycle. I can see it slowly trickling out before the drain cycle and it runs dry until the drain cycle kicks in and goes back.

 

So I'm wondering...

 

1. Is my pump shot? There shouldn't be any siphoning happening as its an open drain below and has a high loop behind the DW now.

2. Do I need to run ABS up behind the DW and install an air gap and trap to stop the siphoning? (then I could tap into the kitchen drain below its trap)

3. Could there be something else wrong with the DW?

 

Anyhow there's my story. Let me know what you think.

Edited October 7, 2010 by scugog

[Fisherman]

Ok guys here goes it.

 

Put in a dishwasher in a temporary spot in the kitchen until we redo it. It currently sits across the room from any plumbing. I decided to route the drain line from the DW through the floor, into a trap and across the basement and tap into the kitchen drain below the trap. First mistake: I didn't make a high enough loop behind the DW and although it worked most of the time, it ended up draining out during the cycle and I think I may have ruined the pump. Pretty sure that putting it below the kitchen trap could cause a siphon as well.

 

Since then I've made as loop as high as the cabinet behind the DW and it does down & across (no trap) and just into the laundry tub for the last week. It is still intermittently running out of water during the cycle. I can see it slowly trickling out before the drain cycle and it runs dry until the drain cycle kicks in and goes back.

 

So I'm wondering...

 

1. Is my pump shot? There shouldn't be any siphoning happening as its an open drain below and has a high loop behind the DW now.

2. Do I need to run ABS up behind the DW and install an air gap and trap to stop the siphoning? (then I could tap into the kitchen drain below its trap)

3. Could there be something else wrong with the DW?

 

Anyhow there's my story. Let me know what you think.

No, I don't think your pump is shot otherwise it wouldn't pump out at the drain cycle.

If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in the manual, it will give you a minimum height for the hose behind the DW(diswasher) not (dear wife).

What I suspect you have is too long a level run before it goes downstairs and there is still some gravity suction. They do have a kit that installs above the kitchen P trap that will stop the siphoning.

My DW is plumbed into the bathroom sink this way and I have not had any trouble. My DW is about 3-4' away from the sink, they sit on opposite sides of the wall.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Fisherman

[scugpg]

No, I don't think your pump is shot otherwise it wouldn't pump out at the drain cycle.

If I'm not mistaken, somewhere in the manual, it will give you a minimum height for the hose behind the DW(diswasher) not (dear wife).

What I suspect you have is too long a level run before it goes downstairs and there is still some gravity suction. They do have a kit that installs above the kitchen P trap that will stop the siphoning.

My DW is plumbed into the bathroom sink this way and I have not had any trouble. My DW is about 3-4' away from the sink, they sit on opposite sides of the wall.

 

thx for the reply. I have the DW drain hose currently looped to the top of the DW and back down straight through the floor into the ABS and across. I'm good height wise as far as I know.

 

I'm confident my drain pump is working, but I'm wondering if I pooched the wash pump due to running it dry so many times.

[Fisherman]

Anything is possible, I would give it a try with just a few upside down big bowls in it, you should be able to hear the water spraying around inside, hope for the best.

[vance]

My dishwasher (8yrs old) has always drained down thru the floor into it's own trap and drainpipe.The hose has always lain on the floor under the washer without any height all without a problem.It was installed that way by the installer because the sink was to far away.

 

vance

[Jer]

 

 

I'm confident my drain pump is working, but I'm wondering if I pooched the wash pump due to running it dry so many times.

 

 

Are you sure they are separate pumps? Many machines only have one pump and use a diverter valve to send the output to the wash arms or the drain depending on whether it's washing or draining. If the machine is draining during the wash cycle, the diverter may simply have some debris caught, not allowing it to close properly.

[scugpg]

Are you sure they are separate pumps? Many machines only have one pump and use a diverter valve to send the output to the wash arms or the drain depending on whether it's washing or draining. If the machine is draining during the wash cycle, the diverter may simply have some debris caught, not allowing it to close properly.

 

Yup I'm positive 2 separate pumps. I'll try and track down some schematics to see if there is a diverter or something. Thanks.

[aplumma]

If you have the drain loop higher than the back of the dishwasher but then going thru the floor below the actual height of the water level in the dishwasher then you can still siphon the water out of the dishwasher even with the loop in place if the length of the run is longer than the loop.You will need to install an Airgap which will break the suction of the downward pipe and keep it from siphoning. On normal drain runs were you are above the water level in the dishwasher what you did would work. You can get an airgap from most hardware stores and just mount it to the wall then run the 7/8 inch hose from the outlet to the drain below.

 

 

Art

[scugpg]

If you have the drain loop higher than the back of the dishwasher but then going thru the floor below the actual height of the water level in the dishwasher then you can still siphon the water out of the dishwasher even with the loop in place if the length of the run is longer than the loop.You will need to install an Airgap which will break the suction of the downward pipe and keep it from siphoning. On normal drain runs were you are above the water level in the dishwasher what you did would work. You can get an airgap from most hardware stores and just mount it to the wall then run the 7/8 inch hose from the outlet to the drain below.

 

 

Art

 

Thanks Art for the response I appreciate it.

 

Quick question - would there be any odor coming from the airgap if I install it? Is there a risk of it leaking from the air hole?

 

Just wondering if I should run ABS up through the floor instead.

Edited October 8, 2010 by scugog

[aplumma]

It should not have an odor thru the airgap but if you run the pipe up thru the floor and put a trap on it above the water level of the dishwasher you should be golden.

 

 

Art

[scugpg]

It should not have an odor thru the airgap but if you run the pipe up thru the floor and put a trap on it above the water level of the dishwasher you should be golden.

 

 

Art

 

Update: I installed the airgap yesterday it was pretty easy to install. One thing I noticed was how small the incoming tube into the air gap is. My dishwasher is working perfectly but I now have another problem.

 

The airgap is leaking a bit of water through the gap when it starts draining. I'm suspect if this airgap is big enough to handle my dishwasher.

 

I can't seem to find any that have bigger tubing though. Do you guys know if there are bigger ones than these:

 

 

Thanks again.

[aplumma]

The small amount of water means you have to much resistance in the drain pipe which is the hose from the airgap to the drain. Resistance is from one of three factors. One is the line from the airgap to the drain is to long. Two is the line from the airgap has to many bends in it or a bend to close to the airgap. Three the line is not large enough from the outlet of the airgap.Their is a fourth one but it is very rare the airgap is not formed right from the factory and defective but one thru three need to be corrected before you jump on that one.

 

Art

[scugpg]

The small amount of water means you have to much resistance in the drain pipe which is the hose from the airgap to the drain. Resistance is from one of three factors. One is the line from the airgap to the drain is to long. Two is the line from the airgap has to many bends in it or a bend to close to the airgap. Three the line is not large enough from the outlet of the airgap.Their is a fourth one but it is very rare the airgap is not formed right from the factory and defective but one thru three need to be corrected before you jump on that one.

 

Art

 

I'm using a standard clear plastic dishwasher line to/from the airgap so it should be ok size wise?. The length of that hose before it hits the ABS is probably 8ft? (forget what the hose length is) I'll pull it apart to make sure there isn't any kinks anywhere. No bends near it so good that way.

 

Thanks Art.

[aplumma]

The average hose is only 2 ft max from the airgap to the drain. Your better off with running the ABS drainline closer to the drain line. You are expecting this to be temporary right? You are way past the building codes and it throws alot of what ifs into this equation. The hose size from the airgap to the drainline is about twice the size as the discharge from the dishwasher?

 

 

Art

[scugpg]

The hose size from the airgap to the drainline is about twice the size as the discharge from the dishwasher?

 

Art

 

The fitting are yes. The hoses are the same size currently. I'll see if I can run some ABS instead. Thanks again Art I really appreciate it.

[aplumma]

The fitting are yes. The hoses are the same size currently. I'll see if I can run some ABS instead. Thanks again Art I really appreciate it.

 

 

To much restriction you need the correct drain hose size. The smaller hose is pumped out under pressure while the hose after the airgap is open to the air so backpressure is to high.

 

 

Art

[scugpg]

To much restriction you need the correct drain hose size. The smaller hose is pumped out under pressure while the hose after the airgap is open to the air so backpressure is to high.

 

 

Art

 

Thanks Art. Glad I asked this question here. Though a little embarrassing I am sure learning a few things and extending the life of my dishwasher!

[aplumma]

Thanks Art. Glad I asked this question here. Though a little embarrassing I am sure learning a few things and extending the life of my dishwasher!

 

No the time to be embarrassed is when you don't ask the questions when you have friends who will answer them....

 

Art