More on the HST

[JohnF]

Basically what John is trying to say is the tax is good for his business and businessmen alike, so we consumers have to suck it up.

 

 

You ever heard what they say about assumptions? Apparently not.

 

Well listen up and I'll give you the quick lesson in HST. The HST is going to hurt my business as much or more than any business in Ontario. I am not pleased that it's been done but smarter people than me (and obviously you) have determined that in the big picture it actually is good for most businesses. That's not to say it's going to be great for the consumer. I've taken the trouble to research it and now I get it. You on the other hand are apparently happy to follow the braying crowd and spout second hand opinions you haven't bothered to research or understand.

 

I'm saying we should all suck it up because we're stuck with it. It's a done deal and we've got to live with it. The alternative is to sound like a bumbling idiot who has no idea of what he's really talking about but since a lot of other people including politicians are saying it let's jump on the bandwagon and look cool. You're living proof that partisan obfuscation works. Call me out when you've taken the time to understand the problem. And I'm not angry, just disappointed that there are people like you who just can't get it.

 

JF

[OhioFisherman]

"How bloody gullible do they think we are?" LOL Beans, possibly as gullible as the average American?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110604799.html

 

288 billion in gold reserves and 10 trillion in debt? lol and spending like crazy? a bankers dream! The taxpayers here will be paying interest forever! With government issued monopoly money? It`s not really that the cost of gold has risen so drastically, it`s just that the value of government issued currency has become so worthless.

 

The average citizen has to take the governments word of the value, and society is built around that. If someone calls the bluff? crash!

[Guest Johnny Bass]

You ever heard what they say about assumptions? Apparently not.

 

Well listen up and I'll give you the quick lesson in HST. The HST is going to hurt my business as much or more than any business in Ontario. I am not pleased that it's been done but smarter people than me (and obviously you) have determined that in the big picture it actually is good for most businesses. That's not to say it's going to be great for the consumer. I've taken the trouble to research it and now I get it. You on the other hand are apparently happy to follow the braying crowd and spout second hand opinions you haven't bothered to research or understand.

 

I'm saying we should all suck it up because we're stuck with it. It's a done deal and we've got to live with it. The alternative is to sound like a bumbling idiot who has no idea of what he's really talking about but since a lot of other people including politicians are saying it let's jump on the bandwagon and look cool. You're living proof that partisan obfuscation works. Call me out when you've taken the time to understand the problem. And I'm not angry, just disappointed that there are people like you who just can't get it.

 

JF

 

You tell me how its going to hurt your business?? Are people going to stop buying houses? At the rate the houses are going up? Every house will be worth over $400,000 in Toronto in the very near future. Thats very sneaky how they say only houses over $400,000.

 

I've done enough research when I shop. I spend more money on taxes and thus I have less money in my pocket. Thats all the research I need to do!

 

I get it. I'm being robbed. And I also get that your financially more stable then I so it doesn't hurt your wallet as much. Thats what I get.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

"How bloody gullible do they think we are?" LOL Beans, possibly as gullible as the average American?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/06/AR2009110604799.html

 

288 billion in gold reserves and 10 trillion in debt? lol and spending like crazy? a bankers dream! The taxpayers here will be paying interest forever! With government issued monopoly money? It`s not really that the cost of gold has risen so drastically, it`s just that the value of government issued currency has become so worthless.

 

The average citizen has to take the governments word of the value, and society is built around that. If someone calls the bluff? crash!

 

You mean if someone calls in their loans, crash. Yup America and Europe. The empires built on imaginary money.

 

They can just pull an Enron and hide their losses and say how they are paying off the debt and everything will go on just like nothing happened. Thats after they have robbed all the (middle class)investors blind.

[jjcanoe]

In theory, the businesses will pass these savings on to the consumer by lowering their prices.

 

 

sorry just had to get that out of my system..

 

This just shows how out of touch from business these guys really are.

 

jjcanoe

[OhioFisherman]

LOL Johnny, maybe Bernie Madoff is secretly running the treasury department from prison?

 

The concept of sending good paying jobs overseas is beyond my grasp, the politicans are allowing the destruction of their own tax base, and who benefits? It certainly doesn`t seem to be the average working man, or the country?

 

Hello Washington? unemployment is at 10%, spend 10% less? or tax those still working 10% more? Take a look around the world, countries all over with self inflicted financial problems, and none of the politicians seem to want to accept resposibility for them. Pick a party.

[John Bacon]

I'm looking at the handy-dandy booklet that the Ontario Province sent us...no tax on "Basic Groceries(e.g., Dairy, Meat, Vegetables, Canned Goods)"

 

How bloody gullible do they think we are...if the price of gasoline goes up...the cost of these goods will go up accordingly...

 

The worst for me is still the tax on Funerals...now 13%...Friggen Ghouls...

 

The increase in fuel costs does not really effect businesses. The extra 8% tax that they pay is simply deducted from the tax that they have to remit to the government. For example if gas was previously $1.05 a litre including GST and has now increased to $1.13 a litre including HST. They previously would have deducted the $0.05 / litre from the GST they remitted so the effective cost to them was $1.00 per litre. Now they will deduct $0.13 / litre from the HST they submit to the goverment so the effective cost to them is $1.00 / litre.

 

Consumers get stuck paying the extra $0.08 on our gas. One of the impacts of the HST is to shift tax from business to consumers.

[John Bacon]

On another note. If companies passed down the savings Nike would be selling shoes for 15 dollars because of all the money they saved getting children in sweat shops to do the work for basically nothing. Did the prices of cars drop 40 percent on the first? The reason I would guess 40 and not 8 is because of the compounding tax on tax from every purchase the feeder plants made and then sold up to bigger feeder plants on the way to GM/Ford/ whoever.

 

1.) There was no double, triple, etc. taxation on PST as it was only paid by the end user. I.e. we paid PST on the cars we bought but the dealers didn't have to pay PST when they purchased a car from Ford or GM.

2.) Manufacturing equipment was already exempt from PST. So Ford and GM never had to pay PST on the equipment that they purchased for their assembly lines.

3.) Ford, GM, and their dealers used to pay PST on office furniture. Now they won't have to. The PST that they paid on furniture purchased before July 1st will not be refunded; they just won't have to pay it on furniture purchased after July 1st. The savings will not be immediate, and they won't be 40% of the cost of a car.

 

p.s. When Nike introduced their Pegasus model running shoe 25 years ago it sold for approximately $110 pair. Now after 25 years of inflation it sells for about $110 pair. It would appear that Nike has in fact passed some of their savings on to us.

[fishermccann]

Exactly John. Exactly Correct. This is the centre of my angst because I know I am helpless as a voter. It was so funny watching Ignatieff criticize Harper for the G20 cost (which I personally totally oppose). Like he would have done any different.

 

I have a severe distaste for all of them. None of them represent my interests. Half of them want to give my money to the poor and the other half want to give it to the rich.

If you are in the middle, then to some people you are rich, and to others you are poor!

[vinnimon]

hst related but a little off track.You do the math!I went to shoppers today to shop,paid a nickel for the plastic bag,fine! Then I was told there was tax on it 1 penny!huh!okay no prob!Then I thought about it! Thats a 20% tax rate!I know its rounded off to the nearest penny!

Imagine all the bags needed and taxed.Now thats a scam!Impliment a card for exact tax payment,ok! But 20%,whos keeping the other 12%.IT ADDS UP!!!!

Id rather throw an offering into the lake for the fish gods than give it to our overtaxed system.Sorry to jump off track slightly!

[DRIFTER_016]

p.s. When Nike introduced their Pegasus model running shoe 25 years ago it sold for approximately $110 pair. Now after 25 years of inflation it sells for about $110 pair. It would appear that Nike has in fact passed some of their savings on to us.

 

Actually they just shifed production to China and lowered quality.

So you are paying the same for a product of lesser quality.

The lesser quality means that the product will wear out sooner and you will need to replace it sooner. So if the new off shore manufactured product lasts half as long as the previous higher quality product you will actually be paying twice as much for the same longevity. So your new shoes are actually $220 for the equivilent of the 25 year old ones.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

LOL Johnny, maybe Bernie Madoff is secretly running the treasury department from prison?

 

The concept of sending good paying jobs overseas is beyond my grasp, the politicans are allowing the destruction of their own tax base, and who benefits? It certainly doesn`t seem to be the average working man, or the country?

 

Who benefits? The same people that own your government. The wealthy. They are making ridiculous amounts of profit, making things dirt cheap in China, and selling it for top dollar in North America. Its like shooting yourself in the foot, I agree, but investors no longer care about long term investments. Its about making quick returns(overnight) on your investments.

 

Hello Washington? unemployment is at 10%, spend 10% less? or tax those still working 10% more? Take a look around the world, countries all over with self inflicted financial problems, and none of the politicians seem to want to accept resposibility for them. Pick a party.

 

Agreed.These financial problems are all self induced. Its easy to keep borrowing(and stealing) when you don't have to pay the bill. The consumer does.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Consumers get stuck paying the extra $0.08 on our gas. One of the impacts of the HST is to shift tax from business to consumers.

 

This says it all....

 

To be more precise, its shifting tax from the provincial funds(P.S.T)(which is the people's tax money)to the businesses. Basically the businesses are getting more of the consumers(tax payers) money. And the provincial government is getting less. Which means less money for the government for stuff like social programs, health care, ect...

[Governator]

I've been a small business owner for 6 years. This HST hurts us badly. I don't do cash jobs, I'm 100% legit across the board.

 

We pay the GST (Now HST) that we bill our clients each quarter to the Government. Put it this way, if I do $30K in sales in a 3 month period I have to write a GST cheque for $1500 to the Government of what we invoiced out, not collected. Now we have to pay $3900 on the same sales. Basically without a cushion of money in the bank it makes it difficult for small business to make these payments on time.

 

On top of that our quotes now are obviously higher unless we lower our own cost to balance it out to the customer.

 

It's a lose lose for my business and I don't see how we benefit. Just creates added stress and less profits.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

Actually they just shifed production to China and lowered quality.

So you are paying the same for a product of lesser quality.

The lesser quality means that the product will wear out sooner and you will need to replace it sooner. So if the new off shore manufactured product lasts half as long as the previous higher quality product you will actually be paying twice as much for the same longevity. So your new shoes are actually $220 for the equivilent of the 25 year old ones.

 

Remember all the money spent on ISO members for quality and all that? Now it is irrelevant, with all the material coming in from China. That is not inspected for safety or quality. Sure its a bit cheaper, but it does not last as long as one built in North America as you stated.

 

For capitalists(Investors) they love it. For the consumer, not so much. I bought a dish washer that lasted 3 years as opposed to the old one that lasted almost 20.

[JohnF]

I've been a small business owner for 6 years. This HST hurts us badly. I don't do cash jobs, I'm 100% legit across the board.

 

We pay the GST (Now HST) that we bill our clients each quarter to the Government. Put it this way, if I do $30K in sales in a 3 month period I have to write a GST cheque for $1500 to the Government of what we invoiced out, not collected. Now we have to pay $3900 on the same sales. Basically without a cushion of money in the bank it makes it difficult for small business to make these payments on time.

 

On top of that our quotes now are obviously higher unless we lower our own cost to balance it out to the customer.

 

It's a lose lose for my business and I don't see how we benefit. Just creates added stress and less profits.

 

It's a great incentive not to run accounts receivable. I don't know what sort of business you're in but won't you be saving on the increased ITC's now, not to mention doing only one tax remittance instead of two.

 

JF

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I've been a small business owner for 6 years. This HST hurts us badly. I don't do cash jobs, I'm 100% legit across the board.

 

We pay the GST (Now HST) that we bill our clients each quarter to the Government. Put it this way, if I do $30K in sales in a 3 month period I have to write a GST cheque for $1500 to the Government of what we invoiced out, not collected. Now we have to pay $3900 on the same sales. Basically without a cushion of money in the bank it makes it difficult for small business to make these payments on time.

 

On top of that our quotes now are obviously higher unless we lower our own cost to balance it out to the customer.

 

It's a lose lose for my business and I don't see how we benefit. Just creates added stress and less profits.

 

But you make most of the HST back! Come tax time. How are you quotes higher? All they did was blend the P.ST.. and the G.S.T together.

 

Somebody is making the money. I think its the businesses, but I can see how cash jobs will be on the rise, and how it will effect honest businesses.

[Governator]

It's a great incentive not to run accounts receivable. I don't know what sort of business you're in but won't you be saving on the increased ITC's now, not to mention doing only one tax remittance instead of two.

 

JF

 

No I won't, I'm a web developer and since closing the office I work from home. My business expenses are very little. I don't do any marketing and hardly do any restaurant meetings. It's difficult to write a lot of off and since I don't necessary buy much except the odd piece of software or computer upgrades I don't show much GST against what I pay forward.

 

 

But you make most of the HST back! Come tax time. How are you quotes higher? All they did was blend the P.ST.. and the G.S.T together.

 

Somebody is making the money. I think its the businesses, but I can see how cash jobs will be on the rise, and how it will effect honest businesses.

 

 

Quotes go up because as a service company I only charged GST previously. My costs just jumped 8%.