HST PASSED

[Dara]

Does anybody actually know how gasoline is going to be taxed?

 

There is already a provincial tax on gas in Ontario. 14.7 cents or something.

Does this include PST at 8% or is it just a gas tax and there is no pST on gas now.

I can't see there being no PST on gas right now. Them crooks would never let that go.

I don't get a natural gas bill so I can't look at that for PST.

Does anybodies natural gas bill have PST shown as a charge now?

 

edit...looking at petrocanadas chart, quebec has a seperate PST indicated where ontario doesn't...guess we are being screwed for a NEW tax on gas

Edited December 10, 2009 by Dara

[BUSTER]

I started this thread so i can read the many posts and maybe get more familar with this topic. mission complete.

[Dara]

I started this thread so i can read the many posts and maybe get more familar with this topic. mission complete.

 

 

so thats it...wer'e done now?

[BUSTER]

NO-NO by all means keep errr going!!!

 

 

 

 

I'll never remember half of this for the xmas party small talk anyway

[DRIFTER_016]

Ontario and BC are changing the sales tax system to just 1 tax Harmonized Tax combining GST & PST. The maritimes I believe have already done this years ago and most other countries have done it as well. However, all of your general services here such as contractors, painters, carpet installers, lawncare, snow removal, etc. will be forced to charge PST in addition to the GST starting July 1st. Currently PST is only charged when selling products and now will be tacked on to all services.

 

 

That's what I thought, just another way to add a little more tax money by ripping off the little guy!!!!

I'm soooooooooo glad I left there!!!! I am dumbfounded that McSquinty was re-elected after his first lie filled term.

It boggles the mind!!!!!

[DRIFTER_016]

Does anybody actually know how gasoline is going to be taxed?

 

There is already a provincial tax on gas in Ontario. 14.7 cents or something.

Does this include PST at 8% or is it just a gas tax and there is no pST on gas now.

I can't see there being no PST on gas right now. Them crooks would never let that go.

I don't get a natural gas bill so I can't look at that for PST.

Does anybodies natural gas bill have PST shown as a charge now?

 

edit...looking at petrocanadas chart, quebec has a seperate PST indicated where ontario doesn't...guess we are being screwed for a NEW tax on gas

 

 

You betcha, BEND OVER Mr Mcquinty want's to say hello!!!!

[Cookslav]

Wow, someone who has a handle on this issue and doesn't resort to "Sun Media" hyperbole at the drop of a hat. Thank you for posting your informed information.

 

Dude,

 

If by being pissed off at the addition of yet another tax that is going to pay for things our "other" taxes are supposed to have covered in the first place

Then I guess I'm quite happy to say....heck yea I'm resorting to "sun Media Hyperboleing"

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Daltons biggest promise that got him re-elected was his promise of no tax increases right?...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

And then along came a "health care premium" and now the "HST"

 

We're getting hooped twice...

Sorry all the hoopla and loop holes and rebates are crap.

Its just garnish on the plate Dalton is useing to cover the crap he is serving.

There is no way ANY new taxes are good for a struggling economy, or the average working man.

Forgive me for the outburst but geeze this is ridiculous....how is any increase to our cost of living a good thing?

[JPD]

Here's a bit of insight on some of the exempt items... still a bit fuzzy in my eyes..

 

More Point-Of-Sale Exemptions for Ontario HST

 

 

 

November 12, 2009 11:05 AM

 

The 2009 Budget proposed a comprehensive package of tax changes to create jobs and attract new investment. Central to this tax package is the proposed Harmonized Sales Tax (HST).

 

Subject to legislative approval, the HST would come into effect on July 1, 2010. The proposed HST rate for Ontario would be 13 per cent - combining the existing five per cent federal Goods and Services Tax (GST) with an eight per cent provincial component.

 

ADDITIONAL POINT-OF-SALE REBATES (EXEMPTIONS)

 

In addition to the point-of-sale rebates of the provincial component of the HST proposed in the 2009 Budget, the government intends to provide further targeted sales tax relief for consumers. Additional point-of-sale rebates from the eight per cent provincial component of the HST are proposed for the following:

 

* Print newspapers that contain news, editorials, feature stories or other information of interest to the general public, and that are published at regular intervals, typically on a daily, weekly or monthly basis, but not flyers, inserts, magazines, periodicals and shoppers.

* Qualifying prepared food and beverages that are ready for immediate consumption and are sold for a total price (for all qualifying items purchased, excluding HST), of not more than $4.00. Qualifying items would include:

o food or beverages heated for consumption;

o salads;

o sandwiches and similar products;

o platters of cheese, cold cuts, fruit or vegetables and other arrangements of prepared food;

o cakes, muffins, pies, pastries, tarts, cookies, doughnuts, brownies, croissants with sweetened filling or coating, or similar products where they are not prepackaged for sale to consumers and are sold as single servings in quantities of less than six;

o ice cream, ice milk, sherbet, frozen yoghurt or frozen pudding, non-dairy substitutes for any of the foregoing, or any product that contains any of the foregoing, when hand-scooped or machine dispensed and sold in single servings;

o other food items that are excluded from zero-rated GST/HST treatment as basic groceries solely by virtue of the types of sales made at the establishment where they are sold, such as the sale of a bagel or a plain croissant in a restaurant;

o non-carbonated beverages, when dispensed at the place they are sold; or

o when sold with a qualifying food item listed above: other beverages except if the cans, bottles or other primary containers in which they are sold contain a quantity exceeding a single serving; cakes, muffins, pies, pastries, tarts, cookies, doughnuts, brownies, croissants with sweetened filling or coating, or similar products where they are pre-packaged for sale to consumers in quantities of less than six items each of which is a single serving; ice cream, ice milk, sherbet, frozen yoghurt or frozen pudding, non-dairy substitutes for any of the foregoing, or any product that contains any of the foregoing, when packaged and sold in single servings; or other snack foods, such as chips, salted nuts, popcorn, candies, fruit bars, granola bars, etc.

* Wine, spirits, beer, malt liquor or other alcoholic beverages would not be a qualifying beverage for the purpose of the point-of-sale rebate of the Ontario component of the HST.

 

DETAILS ON POINT-OF-SALE REBATES (EXEMPTIONS)

 

The 2009 Budget proposed to provide targeted relief for consumers on the provincial component of the HST on many items important to Ontario families by providing point-of-sale rebates for books, children's clothing, children's footwear, children's car seats and car booster seats, diapers and feminine hygiene products.

 

The following information provides additional details for consumers and retailers:

 

* Books, including:

o a printed book or an update of a printed book,

o an audio book (i.e., all or substantially all of which is a spoken reading of a printed book),

o a bound or unbound printed version of a scripture of any religion,

o a printed book and a read-only medium (e.g., CD-ROM) whose content is related and integrated with the book's content and when sold together as a single package,

o a printed book and a read-only medium and/or a right to access a website when sold together as a single package, and if specifically designed for students enrolled in a qualifying course, such as educational courses of elementary or secondary schools.

* Children's clothing designed for babies,, girls and boys up to and including girls' Canada Standard Size 16 and boys' Canada Standard Size 20, or clothing designated for girls and boys in sizes small, medium or large if the clothing does not have a designated Canada Standard Size. Children's clothing eligible for the exemption would not include costumes or clothing like sports protective equipment. These are the rules that exist for current PST exemption, and are similar to other provinces with these exemptions.

* Children's footwear designed for babies and girls and boys up to and including girls' size 6 and boys' size 6, including footwear without a numerical size that is designated for girls or boys in size small, medium or large. Children's footwear eligible for the exemption would not include skates, rollerblades, ski-boots, footwear that has cleats, or similar footwear. These are similar to conditions that exist in other provinces that have a similar exemption.

* Children's car seats and car booster seats that are restraint systems or booster cushions that conform with Transport Canada's safety requirements for Standards 213, 213.1, 213.2 and 213.5, as described under the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

* Diapers, including cloth and disposable diapers designed for babies and children, and diaper inserts and liners, rubber pants and training pants. Incontinence products would be zero-rated under HST, in accordance with current GST rules.

* Feminine hygiene products, including sanitary napkins, tampons, sanitary belts or other products marked exclusively for purposes similar to the purposes for which sanitary napkins, tampons and sanitary belts are marketed.

 

ELIMINATING HIDDEN TAX

 

Replacing the provincial sales tax would help eliminate the hidden sales tax that many products carry. Currently the PST is charged on various business costs throughout the production of an item. This hidden tax is ultimately added into the cost the consumer pays at the cash register.

 

Under the proposed HST, most taxes paid on business inputs would be refunded to the business -- savings that can be passed on to consumers in the form of lower prices. Visit www.ontario.ca/taxchange for an illustrative example of hidden taxes.

[JPD]

Here's some more regarding removing the hidden PST...

 

*

 

* Email

* Print

* Share

 

Eliminating Hidden Taxes

 

Currently, PST (also called RST) is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price.

 

Here's an example of how PST is hidden in the cost of a suit jacket. Under the current system, taxes are paid at every step in production and passed on to consumers. Under the proposed HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on:

 

Current RST System: RST is paid on items at each stage of the supply chain; this becomes part of the cost to the next consumer. 8% RST charged on raw materials: supplies, furniture, vehicles + 8% RST charged on manufacturing: office supplies, desks, chairs + 8% RST charged on transportation: trucks, tires, maintenance, cell phones + 8% RST charged on retail operations: forklifts, signs and shelves = Embedded RST + 8% RST + 5% GST. Under the Harmonized Sales Tax, the HST is generally rebated at each stage of the supply chain, so it's not passed on to the consumer.

[JPD]

BTW.... I am NOT for HST... I know we are all going to get it hard and dry but I am trying to dig up the exact details with little to no success on a comprehensive list... typical of our fearless leaders I guess...

[Dara]

I am for HST, but not at 13%...make it 9 or 10% and I'm happy

[John Bacon]

One of the few people who actually understands this a CONSERVATIVE ploy. You can blame Dalton all you guys want but you should realize his hand was forced by the feds. They're just allowing the liberals to take the blame from the public (and they're doing a good job of it too).

 

And I'm not a pro-liberal person either but... if you're going to blame someone for this at least make sure it's the right people.

 

If the federal government is forcing the provinces to adopt the HST then why are there still provinces that will not have a harmonized tax? B.C. and Ontario are the only provinces in the process of harmonizing their PSTs with the GST. Newfoundland, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia harmonized theirs years ago while the Chretian liberals were still in power. Quebec uses a similar method to GST but still collects administers their own taxes. PEI, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan will still have there own non-harmonized PST. Alberta, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and Yukon still do have PST.

 

Don't let McGuinty fool you again. The federal government may have encouraged him; but this is McGuinty's decision.

[camillj]

Truth is ... it will actually be easier (especially for Businesses like mine where there is a services and products mix) ... much less delay in the receivables because EVERYTHING IS TAXED (fewer sleepless nights wondering if the PST Auditors will agree on the PST vs exempt services breakdown .... and as someone who just went through the audit I know the onus is on YOU to prove compliance not the other way around... and yes it will be simpler because the ITC's wash out ... but dont be fooled .. it basically amounts to raising the GST back up from 5% to 13% ... on EVERYTHING ... how they divvy the spoils up amongst themselves and what they do with our money has little to do with where it comes from.

 

So ... yes as a business owner my life is simpler ... as a business I have to hope the consumer will be able to pay the new HIGHER prices .. and as a consumer I am once again paying MORE TAX.

[John Bacon]

Here's some more regarding removing the hidden PST...

 

*

 

* Email

* Print

* Share

 

Eliminating Hidden Taxes

 

Currently, PST (also called RST) is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price.

 

Here's an example of how PST is hidden in the cost of a suit jacket. Under the current system, taxes are paid at every step in production and passed on to consumers. Under the proposed HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on:

 

Current RST System: RST is paid on items at each stage of the supply chain; this becomes part of the cost to the next consumer. 8% RST charged on raw materials: supplies, furniture, vehicles + 8% RST charged on manufacturing: office supplies, desks, chairs + 8% RST charged on transportation: trucks, tires, maintenance, cell phones + 8% RST charged on retail operations: forklifts, signs and shelves = Embedded RST + 8% RST + 5% GST. Under the Harmonized Sales Tax, the HST is generally rebated at each stage of the supply chain, so it's not passed on to the consumer.

 

Actually this information is not accurate. Raw materials used in manufacturing are not subject to PST; so there is no savings there. Also, equipment and supplies used to manufacture goods are exempt from PST. I.e. a sewing machine used to produce clothing would not be subject to PST; oil to lubricate the machine would not be subject to PST. A forklift used to unload raw materials would not be subject to PST; a forklift used to load finished product is subject to PST. Grease to lubricate the raw materials forklift is exempt from PST while the grease used to lubricate the finished goods forklift is not exempt. One of the benefits of a harmonized tax is the it is much simpler to administer.

 

There will be savings. A business will be able to claim an ITC for the provincial portion of the HST on all of the office equipment which is currently subject to PST.

[scuro2]

Dude,

 

If by being pissed off at the addition of yet another tax that is going to pay for things our "other" taxes are supposed to have covered in the first place

Then I guess I'm quite happy to say....heck yea I'm resorting to "sun Media Hyperboleing"

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Daltons biggest promise that got him re-elected was his promise of no tax increases right?...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

And then along came a "health care premium" and now the "HST"

 

We're getting hooped twice...

Sorry all the hoopla and loop holes and rebates are crap.

Its just garnish on the plate Dalton is useing to cover the crap he is serving.

There is no way ANY new taxes are good for a struggling economy, or the average working man.

Forgive me for the outburst but geeze this is ridiculous....how is any increase to our cost of living a good thing?

Duder,

Nothing wrong with anger or anger at this tax...what bothers me immensely on this board is uniformed opinion that is blatantly biased...aka "Sun Media" parrots. If people want to talk issues then they shouldn't regurgitate hack news media propaganda and they should be informed enough to talk about BOTH sides of an issue.

 

Bottom line here is that the tax is supposed to be revenue neutral. How can that be when we are hosing BOTH the consumer and business? It is the business lobby that has pushed this one through, and Harper is pro-business so it all makes sense. In theory business is to pass along the savings but I will concede that this may very well not happen. Canada is falling in line with other countries around the world with the harmonization. This is good for business and ultimately good for Canadians. If the cost of doing business here is significantly greater then the majority of the G-20 countries, we will collectively have fewer jobs. What good is less tax if there is less business?

[Chris]

What good is less tax if there is less business?

 

What good is more business if consumers no longer can afford to buy anything?

[jimmer]

It sounds like there are plenty of informed individuals participating in this thread and most seem to disagree that the HST is a good thing. As to our Provincial leaders-they have a lot to make up for if they want the support of many in the next election. However, they slipped through last time didn't they.

That being said, I don't trust any of them anymore and I'm sure that's why voter turnout is always low. I never miss a vote though.

[JohnF]

It sounds like there are plenty of informed individuals participating in this thread and most seem to disagree that the HST is a good thing. As to our Provincial leaders-they have a lot to make up for if they want the support of many in the next election. However, they slipped through last time didn't they.

That being said, I don't trust any of them anymore and I'm sure that's why voter turnout is always low. I never miss a vote though.

 

Ya gotta vote, if only for the lesser of the evils.

 

JF

[tonyb]

Since when do cost savings during the manufacturing or production process get passed onto consumers?

 

All that equals is a greater profit margin for business, I can see how that is good for attracting businesses to ON and BC for sure.

 

When you dig a bit deeper you will see that the name of this new tax bill sums it all up nicely...

 

Bill 218, Ontario Tax Plan for More Jobs and Growth Act, 2009

 

There is no consideration for consumers, this is all about attracting businesses to ON and BC. The tough part of all this is the timing of course, and the fact that people generally could care less about creating 6000 new jobs for other people per year across 2 provinces when they, themselves can barely afford to make ends meet at todays taxation rate, let alone next summer when it rises by an additional 8%.

 

Maybe cost of living increase could be tied to the inflation rate, now that would be a new law that many people could get behind!

 

Tony

Edited December 11, 2009 by tonyb

[jimmer]

Ya gotta vote, if only for the lesser of the evils.

 

JF

Right on JF! It, at least, gives us the right to complain. Whether we're right or not.

[Cookslav]

What good is less tax if there is less business?

 

What good is more business if consumers no longer can afford to buy anything?

 

Tomatoes vs Tomatos and I could't agree with both statements more.

 

Heres 3 statements to consider:

1- A revenue Neutral Tax makes no sence for the Government.

2- An extra tax for the working man is just kicking us when we're down.

3- A population with 5-8% less to spend in the economy is not good for Business.

 

So why put the taxes up again?

My guess is as good as yours but I'm betting that the Tax is not neutral as they claim.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Cookslav

[Guest ThisPlaceSucks]

there's nothing neutral about paying more on purchases, and I don't give big business much faith in "passing" the savings down to us...most aren't known for being generous or fair.

 

trickle down economics only look good in textbooks.

[Cookslav]

True...

Especially in a recessed economy.

If Business see's an opportunity to seize back a few lost points for the bottom line...they will

The whole plan is flawed.

 

Like I said way back on page 2

If we want to see the economy flourish....LOWER Taxes

loosen the grip on our Wallet, and we'll spend.

Us Canadians like to buy stuff when we have money to do so.

[JohnF]

I have had some pm's asking about the effect of HST on housing so I thought I'd post this link for any who want some exciting bedtime reading

 

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/gi/notice244/README.html

 

The only tricky part is understanding the transitional tax calculation. Some new house deals will straddle the date that the new tax starts so there may be special calculations involved for you.

 

If you have questions about real estate and the HST just post 'em or pm me. It's time for me to start digging into it anyway. Your questions will give me a bump start. If I can't answer I might know someone who can. I don't like to see any more confusion than necessary in the real estate part of our lives.

 

JF

Edited December 11, 2009 by JohnF

[Dara]

Ya gotta vote, if only for the lesser of the evils.

 

JF

 

 

Voting for the lesser of evils is still voting for evil