Niagara on the Lake to require special fishing permits

[muskieb]

Links were very handy.

 

I have sent off my concerns to the Mayor and all councillors. Hopefully there is some strength in numbers on this issue!

 

Has anyone contacted the OFAH to see if they are aware of this issue or acting on it?

[bigfish1965]

Yes I have been in contact with Felix Barbetti who is the Zone chair for OFAH. I was also in contact with Suzanne Mason who wrote the original story for The Standard. Basically we're still gathering information at this point.

We will be coming up with some type of response. In the meantime keep the emails flowing. There are some on council who are sympathetic.

Are there any NOTL residents who are members here?

[cisco]

Call the Ontario Human Rights Commission and speak to an advisor. Have em open a file and get the file number as reference.

 

To me, the issue comforms to the two requirements of a Human Rights Code violation.

 

1. The violation is at a location (public park in this case) where the anglers frequent.

2. Discrimination seems to be occurring since the action to charge one set of park users (non-local anglers wishing to fish there) an access fee serves to treat this group differently who happens to have a different "creed" than others. Just because someone goes there to fish as opposed to birdwatch, exercise or look at flowers is no reason to discriminate/treat them differently and charge an access fee.

 

If the Ontario Human Right Commission supports that the action is discrimination according to the Code, advise the town leaders of this. Refer to the file number and tell them to quit discriminating or the press will have a field day at the town's expense.

 

My opinion on how to quickly nail this shut.

[ccmtcanada]

Rick...do you have a weblink to that news story? Also, for some reason I cant get into NOTL's website...does anyone have the specific document (RC-07-001) that outlines the proposal? Thanks!

Edited February 20, 2007 by ccmtcanada

[ryanheritage]

It should also be mentioned to the local business's as they the town would be affecting the fishing tourism in the area. I have a hard time understanding why any municipality would want to hinder having people spending money in their area. We should load up the wagons and go on a politician hunt...... yesseree

[ccmtcanada]

Here's an article I did find...maybe this is the one Rick was talking about....

 

- Thursday, February 15, 2007 @ 01:00

 

Not everyone who uses a town-owned dock is there to catch fish.

 

That was the message to town council Monday night from Niagara-on-the-Lake councillors Bob Howse and Andrea Kaiser-Nelson, who opposed a recommendation from the parks and recreation advisory committee that all residents using the property on River Beach Drive would now require a fishing permit.

 

"To restrict access to this property is not correct," Howse said.

 

"We have a piece of property that is a beautiful site ... (that) should be accessible to anybody."

 

The other councillors agreed and amended the committee's recommendation to say, "fishing on the property is to be by permit only."

 

The new regulation was suggested by town staff following complaints from nearby resident Graham Mitchell about trespassing, litter and property damage caused by people using the dock for fishing.

 

Council also directed town staff to provide trash cans and to put up signs on the property warning people not to have open fires.

 

The fishing permits will be available free of charge to town residents.

 

Coun. Jim Collard said these measures will likely be temporary because the town is hoping the property will eventually be used for cross-river transportation.

 

"If we can get some help from the provincial and federal governments, I know we can raise our share"

 

Gary Burroughs, Lord Mayor, Niagara-on-the-Lake

[chilli]

This is why it is so important to pick up litter in our fishing spots. Especially fishing litter. This is not a unique problem it is everywhere. Niagara on the Lake is especially hard hit.

I helped a 11 year old boy do a clean up at the sand docks last year. He invited the media and pleaded with anglers not to close another good spot by littering. It changed nothing!

We have got to get the message out to our angling communities and if be needed, report litterers when we see them because asking them nicely doesn't sink in. These fools will eventually close public access to water everywhere.

 

Rick I will send a letter off to Town Council and discuss this with my club in Fort Erie. Perhaps we can send a letter in on behalf of our Towns anglers. Maybe our Town Council can sign it also.

 

Dan Andrews

[Chris]

For as long as I can remember the boat launch in the town of Rockland (east of Ottawa) has two different boat launch rates, one for residents of Rockland and one for non-residents. I no longer go to Rockland. I don't buy gas there, I don't buy anything from any of the stores there. I don't stop to eat there. But I still fish there, I just launch down the river a ways for free.

 

In fact Muskies Canada used to hold their fall tournament there. The date that the tournament took place was after the docks had been removed for the winter and the collection booth shut down. When the launch operators got wind that MCI was holding a tournament there, they re-opened the collection booth for that day only and charged all the tournament anglers their overpriced launch fee. MCI has never held a tournament there since.

[Chris]

For a similar situation check this out

 

http://fish-hawk.net/hawktalk/viewtopic.ph...4f4f4d848d42248

[muskieb]

Here is a response I received from one of the councillors in regards to the letter I sent yesterday to the mayor and all councillors. Maybe this will help explain things a little.

Dear Sir

 

Please be aware that this is a small piece of land about 100' X 50 where we

have had challenges with security and so have the neighbours. This land is

not designated as a park and it is hoped that it will soon be used by Canada

Customs as a secure area for cross river ferry traffic. I believe that once

cross river traffic begins the land will restricted to all except those

going into the United States via the ferry.

 

Please note that we do not restrict fishing on any other property in the

town.

 

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us.

 

Unless I have missed something, it sounds like this has maybe been blown out of proportion a little. My response to this was that if a system is implemented, it should be done so that anyone can buy a permit, and not just the residents of NOTL.

 

I will post any other responses I get.

[ccmtcanada]

Here is a response I received from one of the councillors in regards to the letter I sent yesterday to the mayor and all councillors. Maybe this will help explain things a little.

Dear Sir

 

Please be aware that this is a small piece of land about 100' X 50 where we

have had challenges with security and so have the neighbours. This land is

not designated as a park and it is hoped that it will soon be used by Canada

Customs as a secure area for cross river ferry traffic. I believe that once

cross river traffic begins the land will restricted to all except those

going into the United States via the ferry.

 

Please note that we do not restrict fishing on any other property in the

town.

 

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us.

 

Unless I have missed something, it sounds like this has maybe been blown out of proportion a little. My response to this was that if a system is implemented, it should be done so that anyone can buy a permit, and not just the residents of NOTL.

 

I will post any other responses I get.

 

muskieb...thanks for posting that!!!

 

This is why I wanted to see a copy of the entire proposal (RC-07-001) in a previous post. The wording from what I read in council minutes had an actual address where this was to be implemented. I had a feeling it was just a small piece of property. Anyhow...I'm assuming that's why Rick and team were in the investigation phase.

 

That being said...it does open the door and set precident for more of these waterfront properties to persue similar action.

[LeXXington]

The issue is 100' today, 1000' tommorow and 10,000 the day after.

 

Always stand up when you can

 

Thanks

[OhioFisherman]

For as long as I can remember the boat launch in the town of Rockland (east of Ottawa) has two different boat launch rates, one for residents of Rockland and one for non-residents. I no longer go to Rockland. I don't buy gas there, I don't buy anything from any of the stores there. I don't stop to eat there. But I still fish there, I just launch down the river a ways for free.

 

In fact Muskies Canada used to hold their fall tournament there. The date that the tournament took place was after the docks had been removed for the winter and the collection booth shut down. When the launch operators got wind that MCI was holding a tournament there, they re-opened the collection booth for that day only and charged all the tournament anglers their overpriced launch fee. MCI has never held a tournament there since.

 

 

Just something to consider, residents may be taxed by the town for the upkeep of the park, non-residents won`t be, a reasonable fee for non-residents seems fair. Residents shouldn`t have to pay increased taxes to maintain a facility that is used by everyone. It is easier to collect and less expensive to the town to collect fees at an organized event. Having someone on duty to collect fees for 2 or 3 boats a day doesn`t make a lot of sense.

 

A lot less problems if you treat places with respect.

[kennyman]

Here is a response I received from one of the councillors in regards to the letter I sent yesterday to the mayor and all councillors. Maybe this will help explain things a little.

Dear Sir

 

Please be aware that this is a small piece of land about 100' X 50 where we

have had challenges with security and so have the neighbours. This land is

not designated as a park and it is hoped that it will soon be used by Canada

Customs as a secure area for cross river ferry traffic. I believe that once

cross river traffic begins the land will restricted to all except those

going into the United States via the ferry.

 

Please note that we do not restrict fishing on any other property in the

town.

 

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact us.

 

Unless I have missed something, it sounds like this has maybe been blown out of proportion a little. My response to this was that if a system is implemented, it should be done so that anyone can buy a permit, and not just the residents of NOTL.

 

I will post any other responses I get.

I got the exact same reply ...... word for word LOL. I guess I didn't even deserve my own response. Plus I only got one reponse (sent it to all the councillors and mayor). Oh well,better than none. Please keep us updated on this Rick.

[muskieb]

A response to my email from the Mayor.....

 

 

Thank you for your email and comments concerning 113 River Beach Dr in Niagara-on-the Lake. While on the Niagara River, this property is not a park and may become the dock for our new water taxi service to Youngstown New York, which we are trying to establish in 2007.

All public property in our Town, whether it be on the Niagara River or Lake Ontario, is open to any person with a valid fishing licence and will continue to be so. Whoever has passed on their concerns clearly doesn't understand our situation.

I would appreciate talking to you about this property if you would care to email back your phone number.

[douG]

The new regulation was suggested by town staff following complaints from nearby resident Graham Mitchell about trespassing, litter and property damage caused by people using the dock for fishing.

 

Part of the problem is that we, collectively, have a reputation as pigs.

[charlesn]

Part of the problem is that we, collectively, have a reputation as pigs.

 

Agreed douG and unfortunately as we have all seen in public shore fishing areas... The reputation is deserved.

 

Sometimes after the ice melt, I go out on Simcoe and am shocked at the debris and litter left by the ice anglers.

 

You pick up what you see, but what else can we do. Some people simply don't get it and never will.

 

Charles

[chilli]

The OFAH is meeting with the Mayor tomorrow to try and have "fishing" removed from the wording as this is strictly a land use restriction. It is important to prevent this precedent although at this point it looks like it's going to be more of a correction because this has already been passed by Council at this point.

 

Lets see what the OFAH can get done and if that fails we'll see how many will actually put their money where their mouth is and show up at a meeting to discuss this with Council. I will gladly register as a delegation. Just remember though, the neighbour who complained does have a legitmate problem and he deserves our support. Not to deter fishing but to correct an uncomfortable situation which everynight this whole Town has to deal with and clean up after.

 

I feel a much bigger battle from within our community coming and I hope we're all willing to deal with it respectfully and rationally.

Edited February 23, 2007 by chilli

[pikehunter]

I can feel how the neighbour concerned has an issue with noise and trash. But what about the rest of the thousands of visitors to NOTL? I'm sure they must create some noise, traffic congestion, pollution and of course a mountain of trash, some of which surely ends up blowing along the street in the wind.

 

I agree that too many fishermen abuse our land and waterways. But the few fishermen to this community must be a minute percentage of the visitors. I guess we just don't spend enough money there to be accepted.

[grt1]

This is kind of an interesting topic.

Since all the funds paid to the Province go into the general account of the province, the funds are generated by every person that pays sales tax, income tax and any other tax in the Province. They in turn dole the funds to specific ministries to form the budget for that ministry. One of those is the ministry of municipal affairs and housing who forwards money to the municipalities for a number of situations to help the municipalities run their town, city or hamlet. Since all the funds are paid by everyone in the province and since the municipality is already recieving some of these funds from the province, one could deduce that the fee the municipality is seeking has already been paid.

 

Don't feel bad though, on Walleye Central.com there were a number of threads that dealt with fishing on the Mississipi River and a supreme court ruling from one state that said basically the owner of the land adjacent to the river owns the water in front of his property and has the right to restrict anyone from fishing on the river in front of his property.

 

Sounds like a small fee isn't to high a price to pay to avoid this next step that someone is likely to try and get legislated

[gaffer]

what a joke, the government has to have their hands into everything, they can never let anything be, or just let people have fun.

 

Bull

[chilli]

This is horse crap. You can not accept this or the Mississippi example will be the next step. If they want to close this dock to everybody until they get it figured out then fine but don't allow these snobs to keep fishing in the wording! These creatans who are trashing the place are going to ruin it for everyone.

If you see anyone tossing fishing trash, don't avoid the confrontation unless your with kids or something. We gotta stop these idiots from spoiling it for all of us. Tell them to pick up their crap or bring their Mama to clean up after them.

This is personal to at least one Councilor. He insists on keeping fishing in the wording. You know the neighbour who complained actually was harassed by these jerks because his outside light was burned out making it harder for these losers to tie a knot? No wonder he's taking this as a personal battle with the angling community. Only thing is these are not sportsmen. They are someone who need to be taken out of our description all together. We as anglers need to not only correct this situation but not allow ourselves to get lumped in with these complete morons who are causing residents and polititians to hate us.

Take fishing out of the bilaw before it spreads. And if you know your one of the slobs that does this crap to us either smarten up or STAY HOME!

[bigfish1965]

What the town must realize is that whatever these people were doing leading up to the point that they broke the law is irrelevant. Had they been knitting scarves would the town then regulate scarf knitting? No, of course not. Because what they were doing before they tresspassed, littered and did whatever else they did is is not germane. Regulating fishing when they should be paying more attention to stopping trespassers is illogical. They may have driven cars to get there, should they also ban out-of-town cars?

Treat the disease, not the symptom.

[Frankypro]

Chilli Wrote:

 

Only thing is these are not sportsmen. They are someone who need to be taken out of our description all together. We as anglers need to not only correct this situation but not allow ourselves to get lumped in with these complete morons who are causing residents and polititians to hate us.

Take fishing out of the bilaw before it spreads. And if you know your one of the slobs that does this crap to us either smarten up or STAY HOME!

 

Right on Chilli!

 

This is the heart of the matter right here...This is not a perception for the resident, this is life. I would guess if asked he may say there ARE still good fisher poeple out there. it's our respondibility to CHANGE THE PERCEPTION and PICK UP AFTER OURSELVES ALWAYS.

 

O.K. That's it! I'm changing my signature right now to:

 

We all fish in some ones backyard.

[pikehunter]

I just opened an email response from NOTL counselor Jim Collard. Here is a copy of it, although I'm sure that all who sent him an email in protest to this proposal will receive the same.

 

March 3, 2007

 

Gentlemen

 

Sorry for the late response this time.

 

I know your disappointment. As a sometimes fisherman, I know the joys and

sorrows of sport fishing. In fact, as I write this I am in Florida and

can not wait to get my license here to fish for blues etc., from the

shore. Surf fishing is a blast. Last time I did it however I was unlucky

and only got a small shark and cat.

 

Enough about me.

 

I hope you will take the time this summer to visit the small lot in

question. Please note that this lot is not a park. I believe it is zoned

institutional for use later on as a Ferry site. You will see that it is

adequate at best for fishing. Only a 100' or so wide and 50 deep with

limited or no parking and zero washroom facilities its primary focus is a

wonderful view of the river and Fort Niagara in particular.

 

Again, the town is hoping that a cross river ferry will be established in

2008/09 which would eliminate it's use for fishing altogether.

 

This November we will be completing a shore line protection project on a

small parkette just north of Riverbeach road. Altogether we will be

establishing a 500' passive park right on the river. Plans for this

parkette shore protection are available at the town's Parks and Recreation

Office located at the arena.

 

I know you understand our dilemma and recognize that what ever happens

here will be short term.

 

If the Ferry service does not materialize, we will take another look at

the possible uses for this land.

 

Kindest regards

 

Jim Collard

councilor, NOTL