Cormorants on Nipissing

[Billy Bob]

Here's ALL the info you could possible need on cormorants...........

 

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/factsheets...rmorants-e.html

[Jonny]

this elitist mentality, we as humans have embraced so gracefully, is what blinds us so severely.

anything we do to alter the natural state of the environment

for the sake of our own 'CONVENIENCES' is so selfish and down right idiotic.

 

You might not have heard of the worst of it (or the best of it).

 

The cormorants on Nipissing and the Great Lakes are double-crested cormorants. I read an article recently where there's concern among some locals about the disappearance of a small population of dc cormorants in Maine. Apparently, there, dc cormorants are rare, although very common elsewhere. The reason for their dwindling number? The resurgence of bald eagles! The eagles feed on their chicks. Maybe we should encourage a breeding population of bald eagles in this neck of the woods!

 

We do all sorts of things to alter, adjust, improve, enhance and protect the environment and its benefits to us. Stocking of lakes, anyone? How about the spraying of spruce budworm that devastate the aesthetic and commercial possibilities of forests? Or the campaign to get rid of those pesky pine bark beetle invaders that are cutting huge swaths through BC forests?

 

The "hands off" approach is not somehow the golden objective. We have our needs too, and they are not necessarily incompatible with nature as a whole. We can manage resources and we also know enough to create or maintain a balance that suits us in some small ways.

 

Getting rid of cormorants on Nipissing is a no-brainer. The balance that we painstakingly created between sport fishing, native fishing (which takes well over half of the catch in Nipissing), and sustainability of the resource, is in danger of being upset by proliferating cormorants. The lake was fine when there were none, it would be fine without them again, and more suited to our recreational use. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. All wildlife is not sacrosanct.

 

------------------------------

 

EDIT - correction. The article I found some time ago mentioned dc cormorants as being rare in Maine. I searched this again, and it's great cormorants which are rare there, although common elsewhere. Bald eagles are predators of both.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/enviro...les_N.htm?imw=Y

Edited June 8, 2009 by Jocko Point Jonny

[JimC]

Haven't posted in a long long time, but check this forum from time to time ... this topic is one I just have to weigh in on.

 

I grew up in North Bay, and fished with my father and uncles as a kid. Never ever saw a Cormorant back then.

 

Although I long ago moved to Southern Ont. I have a fondness for North Bay and think Lake Nipissing is a tremendous resource for the area.

As such I have been returning with my wife and kids for 30 years to rent a cottage on NW Nipissing, do a little fishing and a whole lot of relaxing.

I started bringing five guys from work to the same Camp some thirteen years ago to catch a few Walleye, and relax. We haven't missed a year, and were there again for the second week of the opener.

 

Now here's the kicker .. we were the ONLY ONES there in Camp! Sure some of that could be blamed on the recession, but even before that. there were a lot of folks we talked to that had also been coming to Lake Nipissing for years, but were now discouraged by the obviously enormous Cormorant population and a corresponding reduction of fishing success. The last two years six guys fishing six hours a day for six days managed to scrape together enough Walleye for ONE meal, and not a big meal, each year. Now before you snicker about our prowess as fishermen, some of us definitely know how to get Walleye interested.

In the early years this same group sometimes caught (and mostly released) up to 150 Walleye during our stay. We didn't see many / any cormorants then.

So what's happening?

 

Well we too spotted that 1000+ bird flock mentioned earlier in this thread, plus many smaller groups. We're talking Cache Bay area out towards the Hardwoods, Pickerel rock, etc. What hit us over the head was the lack of Perch. All week we caught ONE freakin Perch. One. In years past we would go through a full flat of worms no problem. This year, maybe two dozen worms, and some of those were due to dragging to death behind a spinner, for hours till they drowned!

 

So what about the poor guy who invested in the Camp? ... a camp that can accomodate maybe 70+ vacationers at a time, and used to regularly. and here were the Six of us and a lot of empty cottages and idle boats. I am sure this is happening most everywhere on the Lake and Tourism is a very important resource for the North Bay, Calender, Sturgeon Falls and surrounding area. Big economic impact no doubt. I am going to have some work to do to convince my fishing buddies to ante up and return next spring to spend our tourist dollars.

 

My Questions:

1. Why do local politicians not put more pressure on the MNR to take action and allow a controlled cull?

 

2. Why do the First Nations not take action NOW? Perhaps I am wrong in assuming they would be exempt from prosecution under current laws? My thinking is that they have the right to do whatever to sustain their food supply. ie. Walleye.

 

So simply put, as I have seen with my own eyes. 1000 Cormorant flock = bad news for Perch / sunfish = bye bye Walleye and Pike.

 

Something really needs to be done. A cull would help. It's happened elsewhere (eg. Algonquin Park) ... why not Lake Nipissing .. before its too late (if it isn't already).

[Billy Bob]

Evidently you didn't read the link about the cormorants.

 

If you believe what it says that although the cormorants are always thought to be a threat to fish populations this is far from the truth.

 

Bob

[Terry]

I do disagree with the report

I have read other reports that say they dive to 35 ft and have been seen eating fish up to 2lbs including bass pike and walleye

and have seen pictures to back it up

 

your report keeps stating that fish numbers were declining before the return of the bird, so they are not responsible well maybe but having 1500 birds eating a 2lb fish each day sure isn't going to help the fish population ....

[JohnF]

I do disagree with the report

I have read other reports that say they dive to 35 ft and have been seen eating fish up to 2lbs including bass pike and walleye

and have seen pictures to back it up

 

your report keeps stating that fish numbers were declining before the return of the bird, so they are not responsible well maybe but having 1500 birds eating a 2lb fish each day sure isn't going to help the fish population ....

 

I was told by a diver on Lake Erie that he was passed at 50' by a diving cormorant. Not sure what that means in terms of the damage they do but I found it interesting.

 

JF

[JimC]

Evidently you didn't read the link about the cormorants.

 

If you believe what it says that although the cormorants are always thought to be a threat to fish populations this is far from the truth.

 

Bob

 

well bob, no I didn't read the 'linked' report ... but have read many reports on this subject in the past. I really don't give a rat's ass about reports commissioned by gosh-knows-who.

 

But, what I believe is that DB Cormorants are primarily a coastal prevalent species ... thus the diving capability. Lake Nip with an average depth of maybe 12ft - 15ft. just makes it an unfair fight for the Perch et al that the Lake depends on to sustain and grow the Walleye population. and Pike as well.

 

The "slot" was brought in about 7 years ago I believe it was, to help reverse declining Walleye populations. I didn't see large numbers (or any) Cormorants back then. I believe the 'slot' helps, especially now that it applies year round, but the invasive Cormorants negate good 'spawn' years, based on real life results.

 

It sucks when you want to bring your family to a special place, sustain a long vacation tradition, teach your kids and grand kids to fish, and catch nada.

[cram]

Evidently you didn't read the link about the cormorants.

 

If you believe what it says that although the cormorants are always thought to be a threat to fish populations this is far from the truth.

 

Bob

 

Bob, its an interesting report but they seem to measure impact on important species by how many salmonoids the cormorants eat. What about the shallow water fish like bass, pike, etc? What about the prey species? What about the damage to islands/vegetation that they glaze over?

[Billy Bob]

Hey guys, it not MY report it's your Canadian Government that did the report.

 

I tend to side with all of you. If they opened a shotgun season on these birds I have enough ammo to take out about 1000 myself.......

 

If you read the report and it's a LONG ONE.........it really only talks about the Great Lakes that have much larger fish populations.........I can see where in a smaller lake that they could devastate a fish population.

 

One thing to think about though is if there are a lot of cormorants on your lake you must have a pretty good fish population or they would just relocate to another lake that does.

 

Bob

[laszlo]

i thought the fish in the lake were for the birds as well as us???

[JohnF]

i thought the fish in the lake were for the birds as well as us???

 

Could we train the Cormorants to love Gobies?

 

JF

[Jonny]

One thing to think about though is if there are a lot of cormorants on your lake you must have a pretty good fish population or they would just relocate to another lake that does.

 

Once they've done their part to decimate the stock, they can move on. Those of us who live on this lake or depend on it for livelihood, can't.

 

If a study has been done on Nipissing cormorants to see what they eat, I haven't heard about it. My gut feeling is that the ones I am seeing are feasting mainly on perch and other small fish, including some small pickerel, but whether they're going for small game or non-game classified fish, they can't help but have an impact in the numbers that there are.

 

To simply assume that they are a non-issue, as the MNR does, I think is a reprehensible head-in-the-sand approach. These birds have the potential to be able to undo all the conservation measures that have been taken. Why are we not hearing anything proactive from the MNR?

 

I did read the entire report, thanks. I maintain some considerable skepticism about the conclusions, and their applicability to this lake.

 

What would I like to see? A determined effort to spray the eggs of nesting cormorants (they're bloody well easy to find!), an effort lasting 3 to 5 years, only necessary during the nesting season of course. I'm not so sure about the efficacy of shooting them by means of organized culls. I don't think you could get rid of enough of them, but perhaps I'm wrong.

 

I know that if they start nesting on the beautiful islands near us and turning them into stinking wastelands, I'll be screaming bloody murder. I expect to have to do that any spring now.

[Jonny]

i thought the fish in the lake were for the birds as well as us???

 

Osprey and kingfishers and mergansers, fine. Thousands of invasive cormorants, no.

[Muskieman]

Jim C ..... you couldn't have come closer to the nail's head on that one ......BANG ON!!!

 

Eloquent and perfectly versed............

 

Couldn't have said it any better myself....being from the area I applaud your statement!

 

Randy From Sturgeon Falls

[cram]

They are essentially an invasive species. If they were a fish or a weed or a moth or a rat we'd be trying hard to get rid of them.

[Jonny]

I was using the video feature on my digital camera (Olympus 550 - 12x optical zoom) to record some ducks feeding under our bird feeder by the shore when I saw a string of cormorants winging by about a half mile out to go fishing further down the bay. I turned the camera on them.

 

Last night I took another look at the video on my laptop and slowed it down so I could count.

 

750 cormorants in that one flock, and it's early in the year!

 

In late August it will be more like about 1500.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Jocko Point Jonny

[4thgen]

Here's ALL the info you could possible need on cormorants...........

 

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/wildlife/factsheets...rmorants-e.html

 

Good job in posting something that lays out the facts while letting people come to their own conclusions, although claiming to want to shoot them regardless really makes you sound like one of those inbred freaks that just plain gets off on killing things.

 

Government studies can't always be depended on for accuracy but this one seems to sum up the facts pretty well.

 

As for the "every cormorant eats a two pound fish a day" argument -- have you seen that picture of an osprey with a 30" musky? Does that mean that every osprey is going to catch a 30" musky every day?

[Jonny]

Government studies can't always be depended on for accuracy but this one seems to sum up the facts pretty well.

 

Government studies tend to have a political component, that's why we take them with a grain of salt, no matter what is being studied. And this study looks only at the Great Lakes. That is a limiting factor as well. We have no idea of what the impact is on a lake like Nipissing which has a different makeup and which already has heavy pressure on it.

 

I would welcome at least a study, government or not, but total inaction is not welcome.

[Billy Bob]

Good job in posting something that lays out the facts while letting people come to their own conclusions, although claiming to want to shoot them regardless really makes you sound like one of those inbred freaks that just plain gets off on killing things.

 

Yep, that's me a inbred freak that met his wife at a family reunion...........

 

Young lad, stop back around when your no longer wet behind the ears........

 

 

Billy Bob

The Inbred Freak

[JimC]

ok I have finally read the Cormorant Study via link provided by Billy Bob ... who is just the messenger here, so don't shoot him ... and besides I think he has more ammo than anyone else. :-)

 

so here's the thing. as far as I'm concerned, the "study" relates to the Great Lakes which is fine in itself; however, it is pretty much totally irrelevant as far as LAKE NIPISSING is concerned. Why? well, as I mentioned in my initial comment on this subject, Lake Nip is a very SHALLOW LAKE on average 12-15ft is my understanding. In fact I think unusually shallow relative to its area. Great Lakes are deeper and much larger in area.

 

Cormorants can dive to the bottom in most of Lake Nipissing. Cormorants eat Perch, lots of them. We no longer see Perch in any quantity in Lake Nipissing, if at all.

 

I truly believe that if left unchecked, the rapidly adapting, and exploding population of the Cormorant will deal a severe, if not deadly, blow to the Lake Nipissing and District Tourism industry.

 

No one has commented about the First Nations taking action NOW, to protect their vested interest for food and to also sell Walleye and Pike, which I believe they can now do. Maybe they are doing what they can, like egg oiling ... but a controlled cull is also going to be needed to keep the Cormorants in check, imho.

 

This is not just about me wanting to catch a bunch of Walleye when I want. it is about local employment thru a vibrant tourism industry, and controlling pollution caused by an out of control colony of these voracious, mainly sea-going birds.

 

Wake up folks, before its too late. Write the MNR, the local Mayors, your MPP (yeah that will help!), the LOCAL NEWSPAPER (www.nugget.ca). I am going to get off my a** and do just that this week. It may not help, but I'll feel a heck of a lot better by trying to make a difference. ok I'm done.

[Sharkbait22]

Don't know if there is any truth in this, but I have heard that we humans have facilitated the return of cormorants. One theory is that we have fished-out many of the large predators in lakes across NA. Numbers aren't what they once were. Predators eat the smaller bait fish so in their absence the baitfish numbers went up. Cormorants will eat small game fish (e.g., 30 cm pike) but rely more on smaller prey. Oddly enough, I have notice a lot more perch in Nip over the last 5-6 years. It's all we catch ice fishing! I real pain. Does anyone have an idea when cormorants became numerous? What other factors could explain low numbers of walleye. I didn't read the EC report. Perhaps I will. I love Nipissing and don't care for the bird. Pelicans are next. Cheers.

[pike slayer]

im no expert but last year on my favorite smallmouth/walleye lake i seen 4 cormorants. i was there last week and i now counted 8 cormorants. I'm gonna let him eat, sleep, and enjoy themselves but the party is gonna be over come partridge season when i'm passing by with my shot gun.

[Sinker]

I think zebra mussels help them out by clearing the water up so they can see thier prey.

 

Call me an inbred freak all ya want, I'd love to kill a boat load!!!!

 

Sinker

[Jonny]

I sent a "letter to the editor" of the North Bay Nugget, virtually identical to my lead-off post. They published it today, mostly intact. I don't know why they think they have to edit a letter to the editor. They published one critical comment about the MNR but took out two other passages that were critical.

[blarg]

Good job in posting something that lays out the facts while letting people come to their own conclusions, although claiming to want to shoot them regardless really makes you sound like one of those inbred freaks that just plain gets off on killing things.

 

Government studies can't always be depended on for accuracy but this one seems to sum up the facts pretty well.

 

As for the "every cormorant eats a two pound fish a day" argument -- have you seen that picture of an osprey with a 30" musky? Does that mean that every osprey is going to catch a 30" musky every day?

 

 

You sound like a brianwashed liberal, oh, and when was the last time you saw a flock of osprey? silly comparison, think for yourself.