Another Canadian is crying

[holdfast]

OTTAWA - A second Canadian could face beheading in Saudi Arabia for his alleged role in the death of student.

 

Sultan Kohail, 18, is now in line for the same possible fate as his brother in connection with the schoolyard death of a 19-year-old man Syrian man in Jeddah last year.

 

His case, which was before youth court, has been transferred to the adult division of the Saudi criminal justice system, where the Montrealer could face execution if convicted.

 

"It's a very disturbing turn for this case," said Liberal MP Dan McTeague, the party's consular affairs critic.

 

Sultan and his older brother Mohamed Kohail were charged after a schoolyard brawl in January 2007 that involved dozens of teenage boys. The victim died of internal injuries.

 

The pair say they are innocent and claim the Saudi judicial system has not afforded them a fair hearing - an assessment the Canadian government appears to support.

 

Last spring, Mohamed Kohail, 23, was convicted in adult court and sentenced to beheading.

 

Ottawa has asked for clemency, but it's unclear what steps are being taken to persuade the Saudis to spare Kohail's life.

 

The younger Kohail was also convicted, but in youth court, and sentenced to 200 lashes. The conviction was overturned on appeal, but a new trial has now been set for adult court.

 

"It's extremely urgent the Canadian government reinforce with Saudi officials at the highest levels of the need to ensure that all evidence is heard," McTeague said Wednesday.

 

 

"If that is done, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that the two will be exonerated."

 

Calls to the Foreign Affairs Department were not returned on Wednesday.

 

McTeague says there are conflicting accounts of what happened and the two brothers were "running for their lives" from a gang of 15 youths that chasing them with sticks.

 

Since being sentenced to death last March, the elder Kohail has unsuccessfully appealed his case twice. McTeague said a third appeal is under way.

 

The Saudi appeals court has repeatedly asked a lower court to review new evidence, which Kohail's family says proves the innocence of the boys, but it has refused.

 

Kohail's parents talked to nine witnesses who said that a stone fence toppled on the victim, Munzer Haraki, during the melee, causing the fatal injuries.

 

The Saudi appeals court has the power to take over the case from the lower court but has so far refused.

 

If all appeals fail - and if the family of the victim refuses blood money in exchange for forgiveness - only a rarely successful petition to the Saudi Supreme Council could commute Kohail's death sentence.

 

Eight years ago the Kohail family immigrated to Canada and settled in Quebec. They returned to Jeddah in 2006 to run a furniture business.

 

Lets see how my math is. That tells me they stayed in Canada just long enough to get their (I just sucked Canadians for free papers) . Too much of this crap going on. Not Canadians in my books. Kind of reminds me of the so called Canadian Lebanese fiasco.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Muskiestudd

[leighfns]

uhmmmm.... Are you being serious? You should be mad at the government not 2 poor kids that could get there heads cut off for being in a fight. (sigh)

[BillM]

How are these guys Canadian?

[Anton Kanagasuntheri]

Well most come here to get our Citizenship, passport, free health benefits and they go back to where ever they come form to make money, enjoy the weather.. Then, when they get sick, convicted, ran out of money.. We have to spend more money and bring them here.. Man, no wonder Canada is the best place to live and to immigrate!!! Tell me which other so called 1st world country does this?

 

Is this possible in US? GB? AUS? GERM? FRANCE?

 

I am not saying let the kid loose his head, all I am saying is... if you do the crime, u do the time.. I mean they are from Saudi, don't tell me they didn't know what will happen if you steal a bread in the Saudi???? This is not a slacked jawed tourist who had no idea how the legal system works.....

[e-z-out]

Well most come here to get our Citizenship, passport, free health benefits and they go back to where ever they come form to make money, enjoy the weather.. Then, when they get sick, convicted, ran out of money.. We have to spend more money and bring them here.. Man, no wonder Canada is the best place to live and to immigrate!!! Tell me which other so called 1st world country does this?

 

Is this possible in US? GB? AUS? GERM? FRANCE?

 

I am not saying let the kid loose his head, all I am saying is... if you do the crime, u do the time.. I mean they are from Saudi, don't tell me they didn't know what will happen if you steal a bread in the Saudi???? This is not a slacked jawed tourist who had no idea how the legal system works.....

 

 

I'm with Anton on this one they knew what they got them selfs into.

[bbog]

"It's a very disturbing turn for this case," said Liberal MP Dan McTeague, the party's consular affairs critic.

 

"If that is done, there's no doubt in anyone's mind that the two will be exonerated."

 

McTeague says there are conflicting accounts of what happened and the two brothers were "running for their lives" from a gang of 15 youths that chasing them with sticks.

How can McTeague make these statements? Was he there?? It's one thing to defend a fellow Canadian (if you believe these boys are) but it shouldn't be BLINDLY done.

 

I thought McTeague was on the public trough to monitor gas prices. Does he really have an official position?

[Garyv]

Eight years ago the Kohail family immigrated to Canada and settled in Quebec. They returned to Jeddah in 2006 to run a furniture business.

 

Lets see how my math is. That tells me they stayed in Canada just long enough to get their (I just sucked Canadians for free papers) . Too much of this crap going on. Not Canadians in my books. Kind of reminds me of the so called Canadian Lebanese fiasco.

 

 

I usually stay out of this type of post but lets be realistic about this type of thing happening. I immigrated to Canada back in the eighties and modified my life to fit in. I want to know why come here in the first place if your going to go back to your country of origin. Since you were originally from an area you have a good idea on the laws and how things are handled. If you choose to go back then what ever happens puts to onus on you not the Canadian government, I can personally think of no other country that says to it's immigrants once you move here we will modify our thinking and honour and except your previous culture as our way of life. Canadians have all the freedoms, live your life the way you want but don't tell me that our society is wrong and should change to meet your previous criteria and life style.

[bbog]

I usually stay out of this type of post but lets be realistic about this type of thing happening. I immigrated to Canada back in the eighties and modified my life to fit in. I want to know why come here in the first place if your going to go back to your country of origin. Since you were originally from an area you have a good idea on the laws and how things are handled. If you choose to go back then what ever happens puts to onus on you not the Canadian government, I can personally think of no other country that says to it's immigrants once you move here we will modify our thinking and honour and except your previous culture as our way of life. Canadians have all the freedoms, live your life the way you want but don't tell me that our society is wrong and should change to meet your previous criteria and life style.

Right on Garyv!!

[BITEME]

to whom do i address the flowers

Edited August 14, 2008 by BITEME

[douG]

Whoa there a minute. In this situation, what could it possibly matter that their citizenship status is? Who might be asking that Canada change its culture or way of life? I thought we were being asked to defend innocent people, because we can.

 

Wow.

[rickster]

Whoa there a minute. In this situation, what could it possibly matter that their citizenship status is? Who might be asking that Canada change its culture or way of life? I thought we were being asked to defend innocent people, because we can.

 

Wow.

 

Don't really want to get into this discussion and I agree we should defend the innocent but these kids were found guilty from what I have read

[BITEME]

Whoa there a minute. In this situation, what could it possibly matter that their citizenship status is? Who might be asking that Canada change its culture or way of life? I thought we were being asked to defend innocent people, because we can.

 

Wow.

 

I have to agree with this in part but for me the bottom line is this, it is another country different set of rules and really none of our bussiness they played with fire and got burnt could turn out to be a very tough lesson but none the less NOT OUR BUSSINESS sorry about your circumstance.

[Anton Kanagasuntheri]

This is getting out of hand.. I hope the Government understands this. I am a new Canadian as well, I came here in 1994 with my family, we love this country and try our best to contribute to the country and its people who gave us a second chance.. but some are treating Canada as a bar stool! Sit down get a drink and move on. If this continues in about 40 years we will have most of our citizens living outside of Canada and 10 of us will be left here with 1500 % tax on everything paying for those who are outside.

 

And you raise these concerns you are labeled racist and bigot! But to be honest with you, I really don’t care about it anymore and I do feel sorry for all the “Anglos” out there who can’t say half of what I could get away from being a immigrant myself, cause if you do, then you will get dragged in front of the “Housing bureau” ohh sorry I meant the Human Rights Tribulal..lol

[lookinforwalleye]

Well I have to agree with Holdfast on this one (I thought that would never happen) I too am getting fed up with people wanting to be Canadian when it suits them.

That goes for the Canucks who opt to live in the states and run back over the border when they need some FREE medical coverage.

 

These issues need to be addressed.

Edited August 14, 2008 by lookinforwalleye

[Dano]

Whoa there a minute. In this situation, what could it possibly matter that their citizenship status is? Who might be asking that Canada change its culture or way of life? I thought we were being asked to defend innocent people, because we can.

 

Wow.

 

If citizenship is of no relevance when it comes to defending innocent individuals douG, I hope you are willing to foot the bill for the defence of the millions and millions of people who are accused of crimes around the world every year.

 

Willingly relocating BACK to a part of the world where human life has no more meaning than a pile of dog poop is at best a misguided decision, but it strikes me as colossal stupidity. I dont feel any responsibility to defend these kids, but by all means send them a cheque.

 

Speaking to the bigger issue, our immigration policies need a real overhaul, we are being used.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Dano

[Andy]

"I thought McTeague was on the public trough to monitor gas prices. Does he really have an official position?"

 

That's a great question. Here's a column with a partial answer.

 

http://money.canoe.ca/Columnists/Leatherda...434211-sun.html

[Cookslav]

Lets see how my math is. That tells me they stayed in Canada just long enough to get their (I just sucked Canadians for free papers) . Too much of this crap going on. Not Canadians in my books. Kind of reminds me of the so called Canadian Lebanese fiasco.

 

Absolutely,

 

We don't know that these guys are innocent at all....

For starters there is video tape evidence from what I heard on the news last night that was taken with cell phones?

These two are apparently pretty darn guilty by most accounts.

Maybe not 1st degree murder, but they are 100% guilty of Manslaughter at the very least.

Which in that country can carry the death penalty as well, and they are citizens of that country as well...

Not sure a Canadian Intervention is warranted.

Would we be invloved if the police were putting them into prison for life?

I doubt it...

Its mearly the punishment that got people riled up.

The Idea of Be-heading is still fresh in peoples minds(Ie the greyhound bus horror)

Lets face facts,

These 2 guys are way more Saudi then Canadian to put it bluntly.

They were born abroad, spent the minimum number of years here to gain Citizenship then left...

Text book case of milking the system.

So were is the line drawn?

Should we intervene only when some one is sentenced to death?

 

These guy live there and they are subject to those laws the same way people who live here are in fact subject to our laws.

One thing we know for sure is they Killed someone!!!!

Was it purposeful?...I don't know, and neither does anyone here

[Pinch]

I don't know about everyone else here, but IMHO 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do' If you are caught in a foreign land and get yourself in the 'brown apple sauce' then YOU deal with it. It really has nothing to do with the Canadian government once you leave Canadian soil! If the roles were reversed I wonder what the politicians in Canada would think of the Saudi government interfering with our judicial process?!?

[JohnF]

I don't know about everyone else here, but IMHO 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do' If you are caught in a foreign land and get yourself in the 'brown apple sauce' then YOU deal with it. It really has nothing to do with the Canadian government once you leave Canadian soil! If the roles were reversed I wonder what the politicians in Canada would think of the Saudi government interfering with our judicial process?!?

 

I agree. If someone chooses to immigrate to Canada, then they should embrace the Canadian way of life, including the laws and accepted customs, and not expect us to alter our lifestyle to that of the country they chose to leave.

 

And by the same token I believe that if a Canadian chooses to emmigrate to another country they should embrace that country's life style, laws, and customs and not try to impose our Canadian values on their new country.

 

This is a matter of choice, not a matter of pick and choose. If that sounds harsh .... tough.

 

JF

[Tarzan's Jane]

They are kids...and following their parents no doubt...therefore they likely had little choice but to go back. I think our government has a duty to help. It's being Canadian. If found guilty...then yes a punishment...but to behead!!! Never.

[JohnF]

They are kids...and following their parents no doubt...therefore they likely had little choice but to go back. I think our government has a duty to help. It's being Canadian. If found guilty...then yes a punishment...but to behead!!! Never.

 

But there will always be someone who feels any form of capital punishment is cruel and inhuman. Is a quick whack on the neck any worse than strangling in a noose if the drop doesn't break yer neck? Is a lethal injection any less horrific in the anticipation than being strapped into an electric chair, or hearing the gas filling the room?

 

JF

[Cudz]

Well most come here to get our Citizenship, passport, free health benefits and they go back to where ever they come form to make money, enjoy the weather.. Then, when they get sick, convicted, ran out of money.. We have to spend more money and bring them here.. Man, no wonder Canada is the best place to live and to immigrate!!! Tell me which other so called 1st world country does this?

 

Is this possible in US? GB? AUS? GERM? FRANCE?

 

I am not saying let the kid loose his head, all I am saying is... if you do the crime, u do the time.. I mean they are from Saudi, don't tell me they didn't know what will happen if you steal a bread in the Saudi???? This is not a slacked jawed tourist who had no idea how the legal system works.....

Where did you get that idea? Did you just make it up? Australia, GB and Germany all offer benefits and medical to immigrants.

GB has a very similar system to ours (more arabs, croatians, serbs, bengali and pakistanis immigrate there than do to Canada. Way more).

 

A record 582,000 people came to live in the UK from elsewhere in the world in 2004, according to government experts.

Of the 582,000 who arrived, about 494,000 were not British citizens - a record number. The remaining 88,000 were British citizens returning from living abroad. ----These statistics are is for 2004 only

USA had over 700,000 immigrants in 2004

Canada had 235,808 in 2004

 

France is full of North African immigrants

Germany full of Turkish immigrants among others.

Australia (although the majority are opposed to it) have a very similar immigration policy to ours as well.

 

I have lived in Australia, England (2 years), Germany(4 years) and in the Middle East (almost 8 years)

 

Story is that they were being bullied. Stood up for themselves and went a bit far beating up a bully. It was a mistake.

Those kids are Canadian. Sorry if that bothers some of you but remember most of you were (or have relatives that were) immigrants. Loads of these people dream of becoming Canadian citizens and will do anything to become so. They are often from Palestine or Lebanon and just want a place for their kids to go to university and settle and work in after school. A Palestinian often does not have a country to call home.

 

Wow. It always amazes me how great we think we are.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Cudz

[Cudz]

I agree. If someone chooses to immigrate to Canada, then they should embrace the Canadian way of life, including the laws and accepted customs, and not expect us to alter our lifestyle to that of the country they chose to leave.

 

And by the same token I believe that if a Canadian chooses to emmigrate to another country they should embrace that country's life style, laws, and customs and not try to impose our Canadian values on their new country.

 

This is a matter of choice, not a matter of pick and choose. If that sounds harsh .... tough.

 

JF

So if I move to Saudi I should :

Become Muslim

Force my wife to wear a burka and cover her hair

wear a dish dash

Have up to 4 wives as long as I can support them equally

get divorced by saying "I divorce you " 3 times

Squat down and pee in a hole in the ground instead of a normal toilet

Drive like a complete idiot all the time

not allow my wife to drive

Place all infants under the age of 3 on my lap while I drive

Never drink alcohol (but actually drink all the time just not in public place)

Never try to help someone who is dying because if I do and they die then I could be charged with murder

Maybe do a pilgramage to meccah

Dye my beard red because I have done so

Fear the religious police but not the municipal police (they are a joke)

Adhear to all Sharia law

Pretend that the country of Israel does not exist and black it out in every atlas or call it occupied Jerusalem or occupied Palestine

Be allowed to 'scourge or beat' my wife

 

just to name a very few

Edited August 15, 2008 by Cudz

[Cudz]

I usually stay out of this type of post but lets be realistic about this type of thing happening. I immigrated to Canada back in the eighties and modified my life to fit in. I want to know why come here in the first place if your going to go back to your country of origin. Since you were originally from an area you have a good idea on the laws and how things are handled. If you choose to go back then what ever happens puts to onus on you not the Canadian government, I can personally think of no other country that says to it's immigrants once you move here we will modify our thinking and honour and except your previous culture as our way of life. Canadians have all the freedoms, live your life the way you want but don't tell me that our society is wrong and should change to meet your previous criteria and life style.

They went back to Saudi because their parents had a business there. THEY ARE NOT SAUDI NATIONALS!!!! THEY ARE PALESTINIAN CANADIANS. In case nobody told you, PALESTINIANS DON'T HAVE A HOME COUNTRY! Most live in Jordan as refugees while others occupy the west bank and gaza. A brief history lesson. Palestine was sold (just after WW2) by the Brits to the Jewish population and is now called Israel. I assume everyone knew that though. Maybe sold is a bit harsh. It was given. The palestinians living there at the time were told to take a hike.

 

I am not pro arab or anti Israel. I am just stating that Palestinians don't have their own country so they try their best to immigrate to another country to become citizens. For them to do this I am almost 100% sure that the kids parents would have probably put up $200000 to come here. People on OFC know that you can buy your way into this country right?

Edited August 15, 2008 by Cudz

[Tarzan's Jane]

But there will always be someone who feels any form of capital punishment is cruel and inhuman. Is a quick whack on the neck any worse than strangling in a noose if the drop doesn't break yer neck? Is a lethal injection any less horrific in the anticipation than being strapped into an electric chair, or hearing the gas filling the room?

 

JF

 

Yaaayyyy to us that do. I simply believe that capital punishment is wrong and outdated and proud that Canada does not have it. But hurt one of my own and you'll be begging our government to relocate your hard a s s. haha