Economy Sinking~!

[Benthook]

I hate to sound like such a pessimist but what are you doing to prepare yourself for the ever so inevitable economy sinking into the ground? I guess its good to be one up on it versus waiting too long and having it bite ya in the rear end and versus how the govt handles themselves usually too late with the global warming crisis, the war and also by raising gas and oil prices to double the amount in a matter of a year or so when they could have done it slowly over the past 30 years or however long it may have been....now jobs are being taken away and everyone's paying for it....how are you going to safeguard yourselves? Me personally im trying to get my business in check and grab a hold of a couple new vending accounts if possible before it becomes to hard to and time manage my days at work so I dont need to make any unessessary trips when I dont have to...to save on fuel....and thank god I sold my house this past year because I feel sorry for those who are or could have already eventually lost there jobs only to watch what equity they have in there homes get eaten up by the lack lustre slide in the economy~!

 

Just my 2 cents....hate to rant but it's good to gaurd yourself while ya can and

I would just like to see the hard workin fishermen out there do the same is all~!

 

Let's come up with ides as a brotherhood and save what we can while we can to save face in these trying times for eachothers sake~!

Edited July 10, 2008 by Benthook

[fishinggeek]

So pessimistic! I know people often disagree about where the economy is heading, and I would tend to disagree. Though we had a recent softening, I think that we're going to have a strong economy on average. Raising gas prices are not solely based on the government's ad valorem taxes, but also largely on the relatively high oil prices. And as Canada is a net oil exporter, higher oil prices leads to higher income for Canada, on average. This might be a problem if this income is overly polarized.

 

I think the shedding of jobs, particularly the manufacturing ones, is a good thing. We just can't compete with other countries in manufacturing. Trying to keep them is really beating a dead horse. We should be redeploying into industries we are good at, like oil/gas/natural resources, financial services, tourism, etc.

 

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Personally, rising gas prices hurt me a little (I don't drive too much) and outsourced labour helps me with cheaper consumer prices and more choice amongst foreign goods. Economic change inevitably effects different people differently. What's good for some is bad for others, and vice versa. I just think the net welfare effect of both rising oil prices and outsourcing manufacturing to offshore countries are beneficial to Canada.

[Greencoachdog]

yeah... and how about that Y2K stuff... that was some really skeery caca too

 

I don't really think we need all this gloom and despair on this forum, all you have to do is watch the nightly news for that.

 

I come to this site for a "Happy Place"!

 

 

If you're skeered... it's best to keep it to yourself... there are many out there that will prey/capitalize on your fear.

[Benthook]

I totally agree...I don't mean to come across as people capitalizing on the whole fear of it all but to simply give share on this forum and give a heads up to those on the board to save face in trying times is all as I am now heading to work and getting something done instead of harping on how bad things could get before they could potentially for me by surfin the net and not being productive enough....just trying to look out for myself and the other good guys out there which are the members of this board is all. I say better to deal now then have regrets later~!

 

One last link to those air Canada workers that may be employed on the board....I wish you all the best in finding employment or for that matter not having to be laid off for too long but it is flight attendants that got the hit so I would like to hope that hasn't effected any guys on the board although it could have very well effected there wife's or family members~! This I don't know~!

 

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/457794

 

I know this is a touchy subject but I'm trying to tread lightly and hope others follow suite to replies on this thread.

 

All the best,

 

Ken

Edited July 10, 2008 by Benthook

[ozaibak1]

This economic collapse is being ENGINEERED, in order to bring about the situations in which even more government control of the population is possible. Things happen in cycles folks, one need to only look to last century to find many similarities between govt and its ppl. There are a tonne of resources on the net to learn about these things, one only needs to be able to think and analyze events and facts for themselves to see where we are heading.

 

Whether or not this will happen, time will tell, I sure hope not. But understand there are those in power seeking even more power and control. Many events in the world are engineered to bring about the desired consequences. $200 / barrel oil was announced as a target last year, it is almost there. If you think the prices are bad now, wait a year... In the end it will come down to we the ppl vs the govt. These are the same reasons the USA was formed and broke off from the British.

 

I think its better that ppl face up to the reality, and do something about it, then pretend it isn't happening and wait till it happens to figure out what to do. My 2 cents.

[TennesseeGuy]

I'm not into believing what newspapers and TV news readers tell me. I'm not going to be joining the bad economy club.

[Headhunter]

I'm with TG on this one... and in my business, we are deemed by many in our industry as the "canaries in a coal mine" when it comes to economic slow down... we tend to feel it first.

I can say that I'm as busy now as I was at any time in the last 5 years... hey, maybe I got lucky and picked a "recession proof" business vertical.

HH

[fishinggeek]

Yes I heard about the Air Canada employees as well, and that is one industry I would not want to be employed in right now. I think when bad things happen to certain people, they are very apt to think the economy as a whole is bad, which is a bias (though a rational bias). I'm sure this happens on the other side, where people might think everything is amazing if they happen to be one of the lucky ones.

 

I think these events of industry-specific unemployment send a strong signal for its workers to re-evaluate their options. Especially if the unemployment is structural, like in the auto industry, they should really think hard about changing careers, such as learning a trade or otherwise going back to school. Maybe this may be a better option than fearing the worst and waiting for the end to come.

[ozaibak1]

I don't care what industry you are in, the basis for all North American industries today is oil. Oil prices reaching a high enough level will impact any industry, as that is the base for the present economy.

[Canuck2fan]

I don't know whether this globalization thing is a plus or minus for the average worker. I do know this much even though I haven't been affected yet by being laid off or having a salary cut. When those 2600 workers at GM get the ax next year if they all made just 50K a year that there is going to be 130 MILLION dollars less in the Ontario economy for me to get a slice of by selling the kind of pie I do.....

 

I know a lot of desk jockeys who don't make a product or work with their hands who think it is all good. But somehow someway their employer who pays them still has to be able do so with that same NEGATIVE 130 MILLION now in the economy. I realize that is an over simplification but it is still a huge hit along with everything else going on.....

 

So next time you think getting rid of manufacturing jobs is GREAT think about what those individuals who now are going to be unemployed and who might have bought something from where you work and how they probably won't be spending quite as much as before, given that most will wind up taking early retirement or working at Timmies....

Edited July 10, 2008 by Canuck2fan

[fishinggeek]

I don't know whether this globalization thing is a plus or minus for the average worker. I do know this much even though I haven't been affected yet by being laid off or having a salary cut. When those 2600 workers at GM get the ax next year if they all made just 50K a year that there is going to be 130 MILLION dollars less in the Ontario economy for me to get a slice of by selling the kind of pie I do.....

 

I know a lot of desk jockeys who don't make a product or work with their hands who think it is all good. But somehow someway their employer who pays them still has to be able do so with that same NEGATIVE 130 MILLION now in the economy. I realize that is an over simplification but it is still a huge hit along with everything else going on.....

 

So next time you think getting rid of manufacturing jobs is GREAT think about what those individuals who now are going to be unemployed and who might have bought something from where you work and how they probably won't be spending quite as much as before, given that most will wind up taking early retirement or working at Timmies....

 

I like simplification, but I don't think this is the right one. I think what happens when GM lays off works is beneficial to society for 2 reasons. First, their organized labour causes a labour distortion in that many people would gladly do that job for less, but they can't because the relatively small number of higher paying jobs are already taken. Second, because GM workers are relatively better off than the ones who'd do it for less but are without a job, they polarize the local income, driving up local prices, and making the non-auto worker even more poor on a purchasing power basis. This double whammy really hurts the local worker that was not fortunate enough to land an auto workers position.

 

And while this displacement certainly hurts these workers, but about the other welfare effects that happen simultaneously? I already mentioned how local labour was not on even ground before, so after the layoff, things are more "fair". Also, if you look at welfare in terms of how bad some of the worst people are, this more-level playing field can only be a good thing. Another benefit would be how GM vehicles can be priced relatively lower now for us consumers (though I'd personally never buy a domestic car myself), which also leads to more money flowing through the economy.

 

To me, if other countries are making the same (or better) product for less, let them and buy it from them at a better price. I know I'll be telling my children to choose their careers carefully, always invest in themselves, and prepare for uncertainties. At this time, we have a huge deficit in the amount of tradesmen needed. This is good, honest work and I'm glad they're making such a comfortable living. Perhaps some of the displaced should consider re-training into trades.

[Canuck2fan]

I like simplification, but I don't think this is the right one. I think what happens when GM lays off works is beneficial to society for 2 reasons. First, their organized labour causes a labour distortion in that many people would gladly do that job for less, but they can't because the relatively small number of higher paying jobs are already taken. Second, because GM workers are relatively better off than the ones who'd do it for less but are without a job, they polarize the local income, driving up local prices, and making the non-auto worker even more poor on a purchasing power basis. This double whammy really hurts the local worker that was not fortunate enough to land an auto workers position.

 

And while this displacement certainly hurts these workers, but about the other welfare effects that happen simultaneously? I already mentioned how local labour was not on even ground before, so after the layoff, things are more "fair". Also, if you look at welfare in terms of how bad some of the worst people are, this more-level playing field can only be a good thing. Another benefit would be how GM vehicles can be priced relatively lower now for us consumers (though I'd personally never buy a domestic car myself), which also leads to more money flowing through the economy.

 

To me, if other countries are making the same (or better) product for less, let them and buy it from them at a better price. I know I'll be telling my children to choose their careers carefully, always invest in themselves, and prepare for uncertainties. At this time, we have a huge deficit in the amount of tradesmen needed. This is good, honest work and I'm glad they're making such a comfortable living. Perhaps some of the displaced should consider re-training into trades.

 

Since you like simplication here is what is happening in a nutshell....

 

First they closed the textile mills, and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a mill worker.

 

Then they closed all the foundries, and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn’t a steel worker.

 

Then they closed all the car factories, and I didn’t speak up,

because I wasn't in the CAW.

 

Then they moved my computer jockey job to India, because no

one here could afford to buy insurance from me.

(you can insert any type of financial service for insurance

that you like)

[Moosebunk]

Dang Economy... Dang Planet. I'm two steps away guys from moving to Mars. Don't push it.

 

 

 

 

Problem with tomorrows big questionable worries is that it takes away from living today. Booming or crashing, guess I'll deal with it then.

[oxcowboy]

as ol hank jr. says

 

I can skin a buck and run a trout line, a (THIS) country boy can survive.

 

jason

[MoriaRiverMan]

if it bugs everyone so much

 

 

THEN MOVE TO INDIA OR CHINA OR WHERE EVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT TO GET A JOB AND QUIT WHINNING!!!!

 

GROW A SET OF NUTS AND PROVIDE!

[holdfast]

Well here's the way to look at things. If things are not going well over in Ontario, Then move and stop whining. It pisses me off that this province as well as Alberta are going OUTSIDE the Country to get workers. We seem to think that immigration is the way to go. well I don't have any statistic, but I bet for every working and honest immigrant, we import 3 that will end up on welfare, in a gang or lost in one of our big cities. Why cant people just move and work instead of Maple Leaf going to China to import workers. There is something wrong here. Then we get Mr dressup here wearing a Cowboy hat trying to tell the West that they will Carbon Tax us to death and use that wealth to help Central Canada. Ill say it again. MOVE

[Badger Shark]

 

I think the shedding of jobs, particularly the manufacturing ones, is a good thing. We just can't compete with other countries in manufacturing. Trying to keep them is really beating a dead horse. We should be redeploying into industries we are good at, like oil/gas/natural resources, financial services, tourism, etc.

 

I have been working in the manufacturing sector for a long time now and this view is not something I like. It is an opinion and I respect it but it is where my experience lies and if it goes so does my livelyhood. I dont have experience in much else. As for the other industries you mention, oil,gas, fine for the west but not here in eastern ontario. Yes manufactring is hurting all over but you would be surprised at some that are actually

booming such as the company I work for, it is a high tech company and one that has not moved its manufacturing to other countries, at least not yet. Of course I am not oblivious either, I have worked for two other tech giants and they both moved the bulk of manufacturing to cheaper countries resulting in massive layoffs.

 

Canada is a strong country and I believe we will be ok. I do feel for my friends in the states and the huge amount of debt being run up there. My mother moved back here almost 3 years ago after Katrina wiped out the town she lived in and she lost everything and she is doing really well with a very good job.

 

Now if they could just fix the problems with the health care system here. I have been waiting over a year just to get an appointment to see a specialist and once I get the appointment it will be another 6 months to a year before I see him.

 

Now forget about the economy and doom and gloom and go fishing!

[brickNblock]

as ol hank jr. says

 

I can skin a buck and run a trout line, a (THIS) country boy can survive.

 

jason

 

Havent heard that in years Bud!

But...its, .".....and run a TROT Line"

A trot line is where you have mulitple baits suspended under individual floats or not but tied along a horizontal length of line..(a trot line)

 

I knew this could turn into a fishing thread...

Drew...you've got it right.

[mbac31]

People jumping on a Band Wagon full of worry warts. Come on, it will nevr go the way of a "Great Recession" ever again. We had to slow down sooner or later. We have been living in a Disposeable Society for way to long. Easy come and Easy go. I'm in the building industry and I have seen it coming for a while. To many young people getting large houses because the interest rates were low, stupid, stupid unfortunate people. What happens to that $400,000 dollar house when you renew. One point in that great rate of yours and you loose your house. To many people in society have extended themselves beyond their means. Eventually it catches up and balances out. The world is changing, change with it or move. Funny thing here. Smaller 1 child familys, houses got bigger, cars got more expensive but we were forwarned but most people never gave a Dam. Noe all are crying. What will I do. Take a loss live in a moderate size house.

 

Spend your money wisely. No a new concept here folks, just a bit of common sense. You will not see the older generation caring as they have went through it. My generation is in for a rude awakening for sure, need to be taught a lesson. Happens every so often. I hear people complaining about immigrints here in Canada all the time . They are the smart ones. They all pitch in and buy a house and pay it off quickly and move on to the next one. They do the same for everything and they are very money weary. They do this because where they come from they had nothing. Maybe thats what most need to be reduced to. When you have very little and its not handed out to you on a silver platter then you will have respect for society and how its ran in general. My parents came from nothing and made something. They shop for bargains and stuff all the time. I do the same. I can wait that week or so if need be to save a buck.

 

Everything here nowadays is foolish. Have a home cooked roast in 10 minutes. Mcdonalds, burger King all these fast meals. Your kid gets out of school and goes to college and is offered a Credit card, how many kids credit is screwed up before they become an adult, result they have to get that high interest mortage cause their credit is bad, and so on and so on. Makes me laugh.

 

My advise, slow down and use whats in their heads. Buy what you need and not what your nieghbour has to out do them and spend only what you can. Be money wise and things would be fine. Make no wonder we are all under so much stress.

 

Thats my 2 cents

Edited July 13, 2008 by smalliefisher

[oxcowboy]

Havent heard that in years Bud!

But...its, .".....and run a TROT Line"

A trot line is where you have mulitple baits suspended under individual floats or not but tied along a horizontal length of line..(a trot line)

 

I knew this could turn into a fishing thread

 

your right bnb it is trot not trout. i have ran several in my days, and caught some pretty good catfish on them.

 

the point i was trying to make though is that if all this gloom and doom does come about, i feel pretty confident that i could live off of the land for quite a while. i feel sorry for the people that have no idea of how to fend for themselves. you would be surprised how many children in some of our big cities have know idea where their food comes from other than the store. a large part of our population wouldnt have a clue as to how to plant a garden, raise livestock or poultry. how would they survive? could they survive?

 

jason

[TJQ]

I generally never weigh in in these threads... but as far as I'm concerned... the whole slowdown right now is based on a bunch of banks that lent dough for mortgages to people who shouldn't have qualified and speculators propping up the price of gas. Did anyone ever think that maybe the people/institutions who invested in the US mortgage market are now speculating in Oil and driving the prices up to recoup their world class losses??? (my own personal conspiracy theory.)

 

And maybe its a good thing anyway... Why is it a good thing... cause its forcing us to look at alternatives like electric and hybrid, which will reduce demand for gas and force the price lower eventually anyway.. it will also slow down the Chinese economy... cause they are paying the same price as us!! Sooner or later its gonna come down to it cost more to ship it here than it does to build it locally or nationally anyway.

 

In Sturgeon, we have a Manufacturing Plant coming in to town, built by a US company... It will manufacture Roof Bolts and Plates for underground mining.... 150 decent production jobs!! Why??? cause were right in the hub of mining in N Ontario.. and its cheaper to distribute finished product... especially heavy product right from here.... I think its a sign of better things to come.

 

If GM would have had some foresight and started manufacturing small trucks like my old Toyota 4 cylinder... the plant would never be closing. Where did those trucks go???

 

I think we are going through a GLOBAL adjustment... I still have 30 years or so left in me .. and I'm gonna live every one of them to the max. My dads been telling me there's another depression coming for the last 35 years.... I'm still waiting.

 

 

 

In 1865 City Bank was chartered as the National City Bank of New York under the recently passed National Bank Act.One of the early investors in the newly chartered bank was William Rockefeller, who was John D. Rockefeller's younger brother and a cofounder of Standard Oil. Rockefeller was the chief backer of James Stillman, who became president of National City in 1891. National City became known as the "Standard Oil bank."

 

Why cause its much easier to manipulate the price of oil... than gold....

[Guest lundboy]

Everyone here knows I could really dig into a thread like this... But instead all I'll do is post a link to a vid.

 

Watch it and decide for yourself if you should prepare, like this thread originally asked....

 

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=money...mp;sitesearch=#

Edited July 13, 2008 by lundboy

[johnnycarpor]

I don't care what industry you are in, the basis for all North American industries today is oil. Oil prices reaching a high enough level will impact any industry, as that is the base for the present economy.

 

 

Agreed 100%.

 

People need to realize that everyone from Donald Trump to an old widow in a one bedroom apartment will be/are being effected. I also happen to be in a "recession proof" industry, but everything around me is getting more expensive, and my salary is not going up fast enough to meet this demand. Look at the fact that natural gas prices just went up by 30-45 % in Ontario.

 

In the end, everyone on this board will be somehow effected.

 

The only way this can be fixed is by coming up viable, low-cost, alternative energy sources (that's a mouthful, I know).

[danbouck]

It is what it is!

 

I'm just gonna keep enjoying what I have and see what happens.

[Benthook]

Thanks for all the feedback... ...it's cool this thread kept civil....just was curious to see how everyone felt about state of things....I guess some people and companies in fact benefit from an economic slowdown while others take a hit....theres always a positive side even to down turns I suppose but in the whole big picture and scheme of things I just hope that some of the clowns that run and control this country and it's economic turmoils and turbulences do the right thing for the better of the country~!