ANOTHER Carp Die-Off??

[Sinker]

I'm with you on this one Rich.

 

I will guarantee there are more people fishing the kawartha's for any thing but carp, than there are carp fisherman. I've spent the last 20 years on those lakes.

 

Sure, there are more carp anglers now than ever before, but to say that carp fishing brings in more anglers/money than other types of fish is a little far fetched IMO.

 

Sinker

[Casey123]

Dead Carp, can't see what all the fuss is about.

[Guest Johnny Bass]

I agree. I fish many lakes and hardly see any carp fishermen, and I like to cover a lot of water. Carp is the least targeted fish in the Kawarthas.

 

There is no way Carp fishing brings in more tourism dollars than all fishing combined......A British magazine's hype means nothing.

 

Carp fishing is popular in cities/towns(in Canada) with people who either don't have transportation or like to fish close to home and enjoy a great fight. I also enjoyed Carp fishing at one time.

 

My cousin just came back from his BIL's cottage on Lagoon City and he said there was a major carp die off....

 

I drove up the holland river for a small stretch and I only seen one carp dead. But I seen tons and tons of carp swimming around as usual. Didn't see any monsters but it seems that the population has not been affected too badly.

 

I understand Carp fisherman are concerned about this, but many other fisherman see the Carp as an invasive species, that are harmful to fish habitat. If they were harvesting the Carp that would be one thing, but to catch and release carp, at the rate they are reproducing would not be beneficial to a lake. Maybe this is just natures way of saying that there are too many carp in the lake................

[ch312]

I understand Carp fisherman are concerned about this, but many other fisherman see the Carp as an invasive species, that are harmful to fish habitat. If they were harvesting the Carp that would be one thing, but to catch and release carp, at the rate they are reproducing would not be beneficial to a lake. Maybe this is just natures way of saying that there are too many carp in the lake................

 

ding ding ding we have a winner

[mattyk]

i agree with what Jonny Bass said.

[cisco]

I agree with many comments and it certainly is refreshing to have intelligent dialogue on this issue which means allot to Photoz. Sorry to hear the bad news of further dieoffs Bud.

 

When any pop'n gets too large nature will knock it down. Close proximity allows the easy spread of sickness from individual to individual. Carp have no known predators and will eat just about anything, so it stands to reason the carp pop'n in many areas has gotten so large as to invite this natural phenomenon/disaster.

 

My guess is that pop'n density is highest where the deaths are occurring along with nutrient/water temps favorable to the particular virus/bacteria.

 

Waterfowlers have been affected by carp in many areas where the fish have decimated wild rice stands, and since the fish are dying in places and at times where there don't seem to be any benefits to MNR/gov't agecy mandates... in fact stinking fish carcases floating around will have negative effects on tourism/real estate sales and so forth..... I don't see a gov't conspiracy theory.

 

As for some people intentionally targetting certain areas with some kind of sick goldfish in order to kill carp in their area, again, all they'll get is a big stink near their home. Sure, just like transport of other exotics, people will unwillingly/uncaringly let pets go into waterbodies carp live in.

 

I think the dieoffs are natures way of saying the carp have become overpopulated. Mother nature is not a nice lady Photoz. Sometimes she's akin the the Devil.

[Photoz]

Perhaps I put too much faith in a TV fishing show where the virtues of carp fishing & the number of carp anglers converging on the Kawartha Lakes area were likely aimed at getting even MORE carpers interested. However, there were several interviews by local business people & tourists alike that were pretty solid, factually . . . and I did thumb through up to about 10 Brit carping publications, (at the time I wasn't quite as aware of the carping opportunities in that area as I am now) and there were just an unbelievable number of Canadian carp fishing opportunities listed throughout the area, and most were accepting bookings at the time (2005) for 2007!! The average booking was for 2 weeks, but there were plenty of 21 & 30 day trips to be had too! I'm certainly NOT going to put forth much argument with guys who have continuously fished the area for years, but . . . 99% of us who do choose to chase carp, do it from shore, and would rarely cross paths with boaters, or musky / bass / pickerel guys. There are MANY establishments scattered throughout the area that cater to JUST carpers for the summer, that would be hurting pretty bad if the carp fishing got obliterated. I get the impression that many of the anglers who fish the area for OTHER species, do so on day trips, or weekends . . . I doubt many use the bed & breakfast & other accomodations the foreign visitors do, for several weeks at a stretch. As for being an 'invasive species,' how many other fish, that are NOT native to the waters of our province, have been here, swimmin' around for at least a century? A natural die-off is one thing, and can happen. I have little doubt though in this case that some red-neck air-head, who thinks they are saving the world from these fearsome carp, has used their Grade 8 (if they made it that far) biology lessons to plant this disease out there. I'm really suprised the person(s) responsible haven't bragged about what they're doing on one of the fishing boards. Why else would this disease stop by mid to late August, then start fresh again, further west almost a year later? (Simcoe) Lets just hope it doesn't evolve into a scourge that will start killing bass, pickerel, trout and other species. When people start playing God with Mother Nature, it just may be a lot more difficult to stop than it was to start!

[cisco]

Photoz quote...."Why else would this disease stop by mid to late August, then start fresh again, further west almost a year later? (Simcoe) Lets just hope it doesn't evolve into a scourge......."

 

MNR disease toxicology expert might give theories, but that's all since to spend the time and $ on this issue would be... LARGE... and likely to no avail. I'd suspect that as the disease kills the host it too dies and also, it seems certain carp (small and large from what I've heard) somehow survive possibly building up antibodies/resistance. Some become carriers and perhaps the water temps/nutrient levels/spawning proximity (distance and body fluid secretions into the water as they spawn) are also involved in the deadly combination which seems to have certain boundaries on transmission.

 

I seriously doubt whether a mankind-induced intentional factor is involved.

 

I see carp being the same as the coyote.... poisoning, shooting, explosives all fail when a critter can react to low pop'n densities by having more offspring survive to quickly replace lost members as habitat food allows.

 

And if the jumping carp gets a toe-hold you'll be scared to drive along the Simcoe canals out of fear of being knocked into the water by one of the SOBs. Carp and the cockroach are well entrenched .... here to stay so I wouldn't worry about the pop'n. Just keep track of outbreaks and try not to be a carrier as you go around with your equipment to different locations fishing for them. Perhaps consider what happens when a wet landing net dries after use in an infected waterbody....and then gets dipped into another waterbody to rub against a carp there.

Edited July 1, 2008 by cisco

[misfish]

Perhaps consider what happens when a wet landing net dries after use in an infected waterbody....and then gets dipped into another waterbody to rub against a carp there.

Thank you for that.

Make,s one think

Were asked to wash down our hulls. Must be a reason.

Edited July 1, 2008 by misfish

[Fisherman]

mmhmmm.. quite the news.. Need I remind you that carp are an invase species that were INTRODUCED (that's right) here for the purposes of consumption by eastern europeans.. A massive carp die-off could only be beneficial.

 

YAY!!

 

HD Well just to show that there is more than one "invasive" or "introduced" specie, chew on this one, and I don't personally care if they taste better or not. http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/~aquacentre/aec...ions/TROUT.html

[JohnF]

Things that make me go Hmmm!:

 

1. Whatever the cause of the die-off, the survivors are bound to be even tougher and breed more resistant and resilient offspring.

2. Since carp aren't likely to ever be eradicated, why are so many fishermen pleased with the waterways being stunk up?

3. In these days of C&R fishing a lot of fishermen are missing the boat by not targeting a great fighter like the carp. It's not like they're after the meat when they set 'em free.

4. If fishing is all about the beauty of the target why are Catfish so popular?

 

Later

JF

[Rich]

I have a feeling that if this was released by the government on purpose, they would have done it years ago on Hamilton Harbour rather than building a million dollar "carp trap" on Desjardins canal.

[cisco]

MNR needs to be ever vigilent however, since as the carp evolves to resist disease, so do the disease organisms evolve to survive. These organisms under the right conditions could become something that wipes out carp as a species.... and possibly even bridge to other species as well........ critters like us.

[cisco]

Agreed Rich.

[JohnF]

I have a feeling that if this was released by the government on purpose,

 

Maybe they'll go after gobies and zebra mussels next.

 

JF

[Greencoachdog]

Y'all don't get your knickers in a wad! It's just natures way of thinning the heard. We have had the Largemouth Bass Virus hit some of our lakes down here:

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/L...irus_facts.html

 

There's not much you can do except let nature run it's course.

 

 

... maybe it's residual/cumulative effects from that Gobie poison???

 

That was a masterstroke of genius eh?

[TOM C]

Edited July 1, 2008 by TOM C

[wallyboss]

They are saying the same thing about carp die off around Montreal. with lots of pike and walleyes too. as per a Que. fishing Forum.

Edited July 1, 2008 by wallyboss

[fishfry]

We were on the Trent river very recently, lots and lots of dead carp. every morning they blew up on the shore in front of our cabin. Sometimes 10 to 12 overnight and about half that in the day. That shoreline takes up about 50 meters. We fished the pads and grass, many more carp and cats littered the bottom there, in areas they were covering it. When i saw live ones with two or three white scales in a row vertically or horizontally , the fish was always acting kinda funny. Lethargic and disoriented, I could pass right over them and they would swim in little lazy circles as if i wasn't there at all. I even bumped a couple with the trolling motor prop and the just kept swimming. If you get back into the bays you too will see there rotting corpses, they stink. In some areas my eyes would burn and i developed a funny rash on my hands after i dipped them into the water, still have it but it is slowly disappearing.

I am concerned about putting my boat in the water elsewhere, i wiped and deweeded it, drained the tanks, as the new radio commercial suggested, but i still wonder. Down towards Campbellford, there is is a little pond on the right where the carp are all dead and floating. It's kinda hard to miss, follow your nose. It is totally separated from the Trent system except by proximity. How did they die? Could have been a frog from the Trent hopping in a spreading it, could have been somebody tossed a dead rotting corpse in, or it could be somebody sprayed or introduced some toxin in. "Nobody" is saying anything and it seems that "nobody" cares what else it is effecting. Not even the Ministry is saying anything, except maybe with the radio spots? Interesting.

As far as what caused it, I heard two stories. The first was a disease such as herpes and a bacteria, many of you have already discussed this. That is the story a pretty young lady first heard when she asked a person of authority. Then this person offered a second off the record solution, still vague, but possibly much more believable. She was told that the ministry was intentionally killing carp, catdogs and (Gobys???) because they eat many game fish eggs.

Separately that very same day a person from our group overheard a conversation between two older men about the subject. 'Last year my neighbor saw them spraying the back bays a couple locks up, couda been for squitos, but soon after lots of carp ended up floatin. This spring the carp spawn was almost not there.'

I am only reporting what we saw and heard, and what happened to my hands. I certainly am not making any accusations, that would be truly inappropriate. I do know this, the fishing was slower then it had been in the past few years, the boys that bottom fish caught way less Gobys that years previous, dead carp and cats where everywhere. Something is up in that system, i truly pray that is not somebody spraying, adding chemicals too or screwing with that ecosystem under the cuff. My kids swim in that water, we eat fish from it and if there are that many dead fish floating the bacteria count must be way through the roof.

The fact that the Ministry doesn't seem to be that concerned is VERY interesting, Don't you think?

You'd think we'd learn from what the states did in the mid-century with DDT. But don't worry, it only almost put their national bird into extinction. Certainly that couldn't happen to the the beautiful sound of the Loon, could it?

I did notice fewer of those as well.

Good Luck to us all.