Fishing Strategy

[JohnF]

I just spent an hour or so running different lures up and down my pool watching how they behave at different retrieval speeds etc. I noticed that some work better with split rings and some without. Rapala minnows for instance are great without while some of the Rapala knockoffs are lousy without and need a ring. Some can be made to act just like a real minnow while others are just a lot of movement. Is too much wiggle possible? I noticed that some act more like real fish at slower speeds but just look like a squirming blur and nothing like a real fish if I really burn 'em.

 

So here's my question:

 

Are we trying to emulate the action of real baitfish or are we simply trying to get our target fish's attention and try to entice him/her to hit whatever we're tossing? By that I mean do most gamefish really get fooled into thinking our fake perch or rainbows are real, or is it just the colour and flash that catches their eye? I'm sure it depends to a degree on what species you're targetting, and the time of year, but is realism more important than simply getting their attention?

 

I'm getting ready for bass season, particularly smallmouth around here, so any bassy type answers will be appreciated. Also smallish pike as they seem to be part of the bass equation in our creeks. Most of our fishing is wading, cast & retrieve.

 

JF

[Mike the Pike]

One thing I would like to point out John is some lures imitate a wounded bait fish and predator fish will jump on that occasion

[JohnF]

One thing I would like to point out John is some lures imitate a wounded bait fish and predator fish will jump on that occasion

 

Good point, but in my years of scuba diving I've observed a lot of fish close up and haven't seen any screaming along in a straight line vibrating. Sick or injured fish tend to make little darts as if they're trying to act normal, but they quickly tire (or something) and just float or lay over on their side, then dart again. That kind of action I can understand, and in fact, that's one retrieve I often use with floating minnows. It works pretty well in shallow rocky bottom creeks, although for the most part we get smaller fish that way. I get the biggest smallmouths by working closer to reeds along shore or over rocky shoals (which are hard to find in a creek typically seldom deeper than a few feet).

 

But what I'm really asking is, do the fish generally respond more to realism (design and retrieve action) or to flash and glitter?

 

JF

[Sinker]

The answer to your question depends on the fish's mood. If the conditions are right, and they are active.....anything will work. If conditions are tough, and they are sulking, a natural presentation is the way to go. I usually try it all until something works, then keep that going.

 

The thing with fishing is its always different. There is always something to learn. Trying different things is the only way to learn what the fish want. Sometimes, their mood will change like turning off a switch.....then you have to change your presentation again. One thing all the time is not the answer to catching more fish.

 

Sinker

[JohnF]

If we could only understand what the fish actually think.

I think with lures, you create an illusion, and to be effective, you don't let the fish get too close of a look at the lure. It is more of an impulse bite.

 

It's interesting swimming with the fish (scuba diving that is) and having them treat you like just another (big) fish. You get to see something of their personalities that way I suppose. You realize when you're down under that certain kinds of fish are more accommodating than others, a few are twitchy, and some seem to be just a tad curious about this new kind of sea creature that's coming near, but most really just act like we're big funny looking fish.

 

I've had 3' Rainbows poking around my mask hard enough to dislodge it. I realized afterwards that a friend of mine was dropping dog kibble on my head from above me. I've often been within touching distance of decent sized bass, carp and catfish. I've swam through big schools of Perch in Long Point Bay (near a bunch of tires for those of you who know the area) with hardly a flinch from them. If I hold still some fish will swim right up to my faceplate and look inside, literally bumping the glass. Perhaps there's a fish word for Cyclops. A big Barracuda shadowed me for several hundred feet sitting right off my shoulder (within 3 or 4 feet), his left eyeball just looking me up and down. I've pushed through a school of 15 or so good-sized Tarpon without any sign of alarm from them. They just turned away slightly to allow us room to pass. In Key Largo a 4' Green Moray wrapped himself around me poking his nose in my pockets for a snack. When he found nothing I could almost picture him (if he had arms) putting his hands on his hips and going "humph!".

 

Fish are wonderful to observe underwater and you start to actually feel like you have a bit of an idea of what they're thinking when you're down there with them. I'm sure that's just delusion on my part and it sure hasn't helped me much in trying to figure out how to catch more of them.

 

You may well be right about the impulse bite thing. I've seen lots of fish gobble something from the bottom or the water column only to immediately spit it out. But underwater some colours disappear quickly as you get more depth, like red, so I'm not convinced that red colouring makes much difference to fish. Red looks black once you get down there a bit, although very close to the surface it still shows. There are some studies available on how fast it loses it's redness, but I'm pretty safe in saying that if you're trolling deep, red is black. Some people claim that yellow attracts fish, particularly sharks, but one of my wetsuits has a lot of yellow on it and I really have to be sneaky slow to get close to any kind of shark. Odd behaviour for the apex predator in the seafood chain. They're among the more timid fishes in the sea although there are a few kinds that one is smarter not to test that theory on, like Bullsharks and Great Whites. Muskies are apparently unafraid from what little I've seen of them. They act pretty much like big barracuda around divers, but without that element of curiosity. It's pretty impressive to see a group of them hovering a few feet away from you. Pike seem to be a little twitchier. Imagine the fish tank at Bass Pro without the glass wall between you and the fish.

 

Sorry. I kinda wandered all around your answer there but I wish you could see the fish when they're going about their daily business. There must be other divers here who will know what I mean.

 

JF

[Musky or Specks]

One instance that comes to mind for me was snorkeling in a clear northern lake with my son. We came upon a huge smallmouth at least 22" . He just sat motionless in the water finning and giving us the stare down. After about 10 seconds he starts to move away. I stuck my hand out and wiggled my fingers. His fin flared and he charged right up to within a foot of my hand. Then backed off. Beween my son and I we got him to do this several times before it got bored and dissappeared into the deeper water. What I got from it is that fishare curious and will check out anything strange but if an object is in the size range of their prey they will react in an aggresive feeding manner. So most important I always try to follow the fly fishin match the hatch pattern even when not flyfishing. In order of importance. SIZE then SHAPE then COLOUR.

[Victor]

i haven't caught enough fish on artificial to make a comment on this one ... but those are some really interesting/cool information JohnF! Thanks for sharing it with us.

[Greencoachdog]

If you're fishin' streams, you'll prolly want to use the "Garden Hackle":

[Roy]

The HELL you say! Even I'D eat dat!

[Stoty]

The answer to your question depends on the fish's mood. If the conditions are right, and they are active.....anything will work. If conditions are tough, and they are sulking, a natural presentation is the way to go.

 

I agree!

 

It also depends on the pattern/technique that you are using.

If you throwing a tube (or something fished slow), you are obviously trying to look as natural as possible therefore the fish has time to examine the bait and if it looks natural enough, it eats it.

 

But if you are throwing a buzzbait/crankbait/spinner bait (something fished quickly) I believe its about 90% reaction strike from the predatory fish. The fish dont have time to analyze a spinnerbait being burned back to the boat.

 

So, I believe the answer to your question is BOTH.

Sometimes we "fool" the fish into biting something because it appears natural, but other times its a complete reaction strike due to their predatory instincts.

[Garry2Rs]

If we are talking about all baits, it's obvious that active fish will hit anything they think they might be able to swallow or stun and tear apart. They will also attack anything that invades there territory or personal space, at some times. Look at the plastic creature baits that are all fins and flaps if you don't believe me.

 

As far as hard baits are concerned, I think the ideal action is that of a wounded bait fish. In-line spinners, Spinnerbaits, and Spoons flash, like a dying minnow trying to right itself in the water. Body baits wobble and roll to give the same impression. Beyond that is the sonar signature that the bait sends to a fishes lateral line. In the dark, or in dirty water, fish strike prey they can't see by zeroing in on its vibration.

 

Over the years I recall seeing many articles where the writer mentioned that out of a hand full of matching baits, one lure, out performed others of the same brand, size and colour...something about that "one" triggered a strike. In the day of the $2.00 lure, I can see how variables like gluing and aligning the diving lip etc. could cause different actions from otherwise identical lures. The idea that each Rapala was tank tested and tuned before it left the plant was the reason I tended to stick with them even though their baits always cost a little more.

 

We now find ourselves in an era where the price of crankbaits is soaring. Japanese lures like Lucky Strike run $14 to $24 US a pop.

Supposedly, these high-end units are hand tuned etc. so that every one is a fish magnet...we will soon need as much insurance on our tackle box, as on our boat...HAHAHA.

 

In Bass fishing, it is commonly excepted that this year's new designs will work better than last year's models. The reason is that the fish haven't seen the new wiggle or felt the new vibration before. In this day of catch and release it doesn't take a fish long to figure out that some of those "wounded" fish aren't "Giving off Good Vibrations"...grin. I'm sorry if that song is now stuck in your head all day...hahaha.

This might not play as big a roll up here as on the heavily fished waters down south. Until you have seen it, it's hard to appreciate how heavy the fishing pressure is in some places. I have seen a line of 20 boats, 40 feet apart, working the same shore line with basically the same bait!

 

They say that Japanese waters are even more heavily pressured. Most of the new "finese" techniques are things that the Japanese anglers on the Pro Circuit introduced to North America. Many of these involve wiggling a bait in front of an inactive fish, taunting and teasing until it strikes. That's a technique many children use to get what they want too...HAHAHA.

Edited June 6, 2008 by garry2rs

[bushart]

Regarding a baits look--I recall many years ago when a friend and I were standing on an old wooden bridge above a clearwater creek--he was smoking and when done threw the butt into the water (don't hang me on that one)--anyway as soon as it hit the water a nice speckled trout come from underneath the bridge --nailed the butt and instantly spit it out--so yeah I think reflex action has lots to do with it.

 

Regarding bait styles---also years ago my mother on one of her journeys picked me up a body bait called a "Mirro-Lure" (No guerilla marketing here-not sure if they even still make these)--anyway it was a jointed minnow--silver in colour--metal lip and that thing would catch fish when all the other body baits would not---unsure if it was the vibration or what---anyway I only ever seen the one-and used it till it eventually wore out-

 

I believe whatever bait you use the secret may be is getting that bait into the strike zone of your target---ie;floating raps may be useless when the fish are hanging in 25 ft of water

[JohnF]

If you're fishin' streams, you'll prolly want to use the "Garden Hackle":

 

Your "Garden Hackle" reminded me of an experiment I tried last year on the local bass. I have one pool that is as dependable as all get out, until low water ruins it. I was having pretty good luck with Texas rigged plastic worms but was losing too many fish because they apparently bit the trailing end of the worm, would hang on almost to my feet, and then just release the bait, or sometimes just take the tail end away with them. I've still got one particularly beat up worm in one of my boxes that shows where they were hitting it.

 

My experiment was to use a bait needle to thread 4# mono through the length of the worm and add a second hook, like a stinger, in the worm's tail end. It was a useless idea. I assumed that the change in the worm action put them off. It definitely looked more rigid in the water.

 

Other fishermen assure me that the eyes are critical on a body bait. They apparently believe that realism is the key.

 

Someone else mentioned that identical lures will run slightly differently in the water and I can attest to that. I've tried several different lures in my pool and had slightly different tracking with each individual of each style. The depth seems to be fairly consistent but the wobble is different. That being said, it's impressive how consistently many of them do react. Rapalas truly are very consistent. One interesting observation has been that I can run two identical bodies from two different packaging labels (and prices) and get very similar results. Obviously either one company is branding their products for other packagers or they're both buying from the same body manufacturer. The paint jobs will be different in quality, and even the hooks, but the action is still the same which leads me to the conclusion that the body shape is the most important factor in determining the movement of the lure. And the action can be altered by adding or removing the split ring, or even just by tying the knot to tight on the eye. I had one minnow last night that would track one way or the other depending on which side of the eye the knot was tightened. When I loosened the knot so it could slip in the eye the lure ran true.

 

Has anyone else come to similar conclusions?

 

JF

[Reef Runner]

I think that where and how the line is tied onto the lure is a major factor in it's performance in the water, but not necessarily "the" factor that will trigger a strike.

 

You'll notice that most bottom bouncing jigs have a 60degree angle on the eye which, supposedly, positions the bait so it is easy to scoop up by fish at a natural angle. Also, you've mentioned that different position of the knot, adding a split ring produces variable action on a specific lure. If it's not running "true", than a tweak or change and pending results will determine if you keep it in the water longer.

 

Confidence in the bait you are using = keeping it the strike zone, will intice an instinctual strike response. If the fish aren't interested, it's other factors that come to play, not a commentary on your presentation.

 

Now get to the lake, stop casting in the pool....lol.

 

reefrunner

[JohnF]

Now get to the lake, stop casting in the pool....lol.

 

Rob & I were doing this stuff one afternoon last summer while our neighbours had a large gathering of folks in their yard. They kept looking over at us until finally one of the women came over and asked, apparently seriously, if we actually caught anything in the pool.

 

Now whenever I come in from the poolyard with a fishing rod my wife sarcastically asks the same question. She thinks fishing is a smelly waste of time and money. I keep pointing out to her how much cheaper it is than most of my other hobbies have been. I recently sold a bunch of dive gear for enough to keep me in fishing tackle for years, probably for life given my advanced years and decrepitude.

 

Bass season is too slow in coming. Why couldn't nature have made bass get horny earlier in the year? We need ice breeders. But I'm going carping this weekend a couple of times - and not in the pool.

 

JF

[Reef Runner]

LOL. That is freakin' hillarious. Fish the shallow end earlier in the year, you'll have bettr luck...lol

 

Great discussion.

[Stoty]

Bass season is too slow in coming. Why couldn't nature have made bass get horny earlier in the year?

 

AMEN!

The wait is killing me!

[ehg]

in my years of scuba diving I've observed a lot of fish close up ...Sick or injured fish tend to make little darts as if they're trying to act normal, but they quickly tire (or something) and just float or lay over on their side.

This explains the success of suspending jerkbaits. Pause, twitch.. Pause, twitch

Otherwise fish react to flash or are just 'active'.

[Headhunter]

Garry is very correct as far as I can tell... another theory that I've been working with is as follows;

Fish expell a great deal of energy when they chase food and they must make up their mind very quickly, if the amount of energy they require to catch a meal, is more than they will get back consuming the food. An easy mark is almost always going to get interest...

I equate it to some degree, to a lesson I learned at Wild Cat World in Orno... the keeper there told me that a tiger will almost never attack if it's quarry if it is facing them... they have concerns that their prey could cause them more damage then the resulting meal is worth to them... he showed us by turning his back on the tigers (he had a fence between him and the big cats) and they literally jumped at him, the moment his back was turned... as soon as he turned back toward them, they backed off...

I think that nature has instilled these survival techniques on many of it's citizens, fish included.

HH

[ozaibak1]

I have a pool I never use, thats a genius idea of testing presentation in the water gonna try it out! Now I can say I use the pool....

[Musky or Specks]

I know a pool on private property that hardly anyone knows about. I think I'll grab a bag of marshmallows and go hit it up. Dont worry when I post photos all background will be cut out.

[JohnF]

I have a pool I never use, thats a genius idea of testing presentation in the water gonna try it out! Now I can say I use the pool....

 

I hear ya. When I was really into diving and experimenting with new gear all the time that's what the pool was used for. My neighbours all thought I was some kind of fetishist, wandering around my back yard in a rubber suit with two, and sometimes three, air tanks hanging off my body. Then I'd spend all that time just laying on the bottom, or near it, fiddling with stuff. Now all that tech & cave diving stuff is behind me, I think, so the pool is just a lure wind tunnel. In all fairness, my wife actually uses it occasionally but essentially it's just a wet hole in our yard that we throw money into. Oh, and I get to do all the extra maintenance and yard work so it looks nice when we have folks over for a bbq.

 

Mebbe I could start a new sideline and charge to test and videotape lures for the non-pool types. In fact I might just do that for fun this weekend. I could rig up a gang bar and do parallel retrieves to compare the action on similar lures under identical conditions. Hmmm - casting a gang bar might be problematic. But on second thought the water disturbance from the bar running ahead of the lures would likely screw up their action. Perhaps I need a big fixed reel at one end of the pool and a set of gates at the other end from which to start the lures on the retrieve. AAAAHHHHH!!!! My head's starting to hurt.

 

Ya see. This is exactly the kind of useless experimentation I do when I have too much time on my hands. It's why my wife won't let me retire.

 

JF

[JohnF]

I know a pool on private property that hardly anyone knows about. I think I'll grab a bag of marshmallows and go hit it up. Dont worry when I post photos all background will be cut out.

 

I have it on good authority that the MNR isn't even checking swimming pools for poachers so you can target all the bass you want this weekend, with or without marshmallows. Post pics.

 

JF

[ozaibak1]

Hmmm that gives me an interesting idea. We have a viewing hole in the bottom of our pool where you can actually see clearly underwater, maybe I'll setup a video camera and do some captions of underwater movements with the different plastics I got this year...

[JohnF]

Hmmm that gives me an interesting idea. We have a viewing hole in the bottom of our pool where you can actually see clearly underwater, maybe I'll setup a video camera and do some captions of underwater movements with the different plastics I got this year...

 

I guess I shoulda patented that idea before I shared it.

 

JF