Didnt want to hijack the DUI thread

[TOM C]

Seems a small debate was started as to people drinking and driving, and one of the members asked the question ( why are the penalties for drinking and driving so harsh) While im now going to open a very large Kettle of fish. In Toronto there is now going to be a call to ban Hand guns, because in the last little while, 2 people have been killed while minding their own bussiness.I for one cant believe how banning hand guns will make any difference to the crime rate, as I think the only ones left with handguns will be the crooks, yes some will say well no one needs a handgun in the first place.

 

My debate is this, 2 people are gunned down and the whole country is up in arms about it,but hundreds are injured and killed by drunk drivers every year, and some still say WELL THE GUY JUST MADE A MISTAKE, I believe that once you get behind the wheel of a car and are drunk that car now becomes a weapon, and the law should treat it that way.If you look at just the numbers, of how many people are killed every year, is hand guns what should be banned, or should it be _aco_______ (DONT EVEN WANT TO SAY IT< BECAUSE OF THE RATH).

 

If you lose it for a second in life and make the decision to shoot someone its murder, if you make the decision to drink and drive and kill someone they say you just made a mistake

 

Remember its cold outside and the is just an editorial, so have an opinion and debate it, but dont get personal and bash or beliittle anyone over this

[Greencoachdog]

I was being sarcastic when I posted the "Why are DUI laws so harsh?" question, I actually don't think they're harsh enough.

 

Guns don't kill people... people kill people!

 

I say give everyone a handgun of their choice, and we'll just shoot it out!!!

Edited January 22, 2008 by Greencoachdog

[TOM C]

I wasnt pointing the finger, you just made a good comment to start a debate on the topic,from the lack of responce it seems this may be to much of a touchy subject. Which is fine as well

[Greencoachdog]

I wasnt pointing the finger, you just made a good comment to start a debate on the topic,from the lack of responce it seems this may be to much of a touchy subject. Which is fine as well

 

Ya gotta give it time... let it fester a little...

[Jay T]

I think the gun registry is a joke, and they have been trying to ban hand guns in Canada for a long time. Just look at what you have to go threw just to own guns. Just look at the differnence that it made in gun related deaths and injuries, I wonder how many of them were registered.

This is why I mostly hunt with a compound bow, less aggravation.

Even if they do ban them, they will not go away and the thugs will still be able to get their hands on a hand gun. Pointless stupidity if you ask me.

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BARE ARMS as long as you follow the rules.

 

My 2 cents.

[Deano]

It's a never ending cycle, make laws to protect the people, which takes away humans freedoms, which causes humans to be more stressed, which cause humans to drink more, which causes humans to make more impaired judgments.

[Gerritt]

Not to Nit-Pick here but.....

 

I dont think Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms or Constitution Acts gives Canadians the Right to bear arms.

 

Firearm ownership is a privilege in Canada

 

 

Maybe I am wrong? Dunno...

 

G

Edited January 22, 2008 by Gerritt

[motv8tr]

You are correct Gerritt.

 

As for the banning of handguns...well those who are calling for it are either nieve, not too bright, wishful thinkers or politicians paying lip service could be all of the above.

 

Maureen

[kennyman]

My opinion is that handguns should be banned to the general public. Who needs a hand gun walking around a metropolitan area.?You can still have rifles, for those who hunt etc. , but they are much harder to conceal (think concerts,bars etc.). I agree with the "guns don't kill people,people kill people" credo, but why make it easier? We're already turning into the US at an alarming rate,let's not push it along any quicker please.

Edited January 22, 2008 by kennyman

[Deano]

Provide and Protect. Humans purpose as all living things is to provide and protect, your need to fish is instilled in you, as the need to protect to ensure your genes survive generations. So even if the constitution does not say it, human nature instills it. Taking away either one of our purposes leaves man confused and without purpose, which will either make man either coward or fight. To deal with cowarding man will resort to drugs or alcohol to ease the pain, to fight back man will rebel. So taking our rights to provide or protect will result in more bigger problems. As which history shows.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Deano

[Terry]

hand guns are banned ...you can not walk down the street with one legally...

unless you apply for a permit and should a life threating reason for needing the protection and they almost never issue a permit for that

even body guards have a difficult time getting a permit to carry

 

the guy that shot that guy did not have a permit to carry, only to own the guy

 

99.99999% of the guns used in crime are not registered, so farther bans will do nothing...

 

 

 

as for drunk driving......

I hate to see them on the road

it hurts when they kill someone...

 

but did they sit at home and drink or did some bartender pour him 15 rye and cokes.........

 

I think the whole system has to take responsibility for what is happening...starting with the drivers

[Jay T]

Not to Nit-Pick here but.....

 

I dont think Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms or Constitution Acts gives Canadians the Right to bear arms.

 

Firearm ownership is a privilege in Canada

Maybe I am wrong? Dunno...

 

G

 

 

You are right Gerritt. Just wrong choice of words.

It is a privilege to own guns, but still does not change the fact that the guns are still out there in the wrong hands, but the legal people have to suffer as usual.

[Roy]

What do y'all think of this?

 

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=55288

[Canuck2fan]

Hand guns are all but banned now in Canada, and it doesn't seem to stop or even slow down the criminals who want to use them. Banning them won't make any difference either. What might though is an automatic 25 yr sentence with no parole for just having an unregistered hand gun in your possession. I am not talking about having an unregistered hand gun when committing a crime either I am saying just having one in your house is enough to get the conviction. (Sure a few people who aren't the actually owner might do time but that's too bad in opinion, if you can't control what others bring into your home you need to wake up) The registration process for hand guns in Canada should be the same as it is now with only one small difference, you must go to police station and have them get a ballistic signature from your hand gun to have on file. That way if it gets stolen or used in a crime the police know where to start looking.... so if you didn't already keep them properly locked up you might want to start. Part two of the law would be an automatic 10 yr sentence for letting your gun get stolen through negligence on your part.

 

The only problem with such a harsh set of laws is that we as Canadians won't pay for the outcome of having thousands of new people staying at the crowbar hotel on the public dime. Just as we aren't willing to pony up the cash now to pay for the type and length of incarcerations that poll after poll say that we would like to see for violent crimes now. It is a joke that we constantly complain that laws and sentences aren't tough enough on criminals then in the next sentence we all want huge tax cuts..... Sure an over simplication but the reality is I don't know too many people who call their MP and suggest that we triple spending on jail sentences....

 

I wish that we had the nerve as a society to take the gun toting thugs in hand by having their mandatory 25 yr sentence be served in a wilderness prison. Set them up in remote areas where the convicts can spend their time battling the elements. Have them cut wood to keep warm in the winter, farm for food in the summer, tat mosquito netting for the bug season. Limit the caloric intake of the inmates to 1800 calories a day, unless they grow more themselves. Make it fun for them though sort of like the ultimate SURVIVOR game for the criminally inclined. In other words make it a place to avoid not somewhere better than most of us can afford now on the outside.

 

As for drunk driving I said plenty in the other thread and found out that it seems not everyone sees that act as a true crime, yet. Public opinion for a long time has helped reduce the number of people who think that a DUI conviction is something that is OK. I guess there is still work to do on that front. I just hope that not too many more people get killed or maimed before we eradicate that attitude....

[ccmtcanada]

I hear what everyone is saying about banning handguns is not the answer, as the problem is not with registered users who are law abiding. I also understand that the ones used in crime are not registered, so what good is the registry.

 

I may be completely naive here, but if we make it just a little bit tougher for someone to get one...legally or not, would it sway a kid who is teetering with the idea of getting one? Especially if they have no idea where to begin to look? Could it stop ONE person from obtaining one and killing someone or themselves with it? If so, would that be worth it? What if that person was your child?

 

I understand the right to protect yourself, your family and property. You hear stories about people being shot with their own guns during a robbery, because they panic or cant keep calm with a loaded one when the situation arises. How often do we hear that a home was broken into and the guy ran away because the owner had a gun? Or that a homeowner shot someone who was breaking into their house? Maybe I just miss those stories or the media doesn't report on them.

 

Another naive thought of mine is the use of handguns. What is their primary use? I really dont know the answer to this...as I've never hunted, but do people hunt deer or other game with handguns? Are there competitions for handguns? I know I've seen rifles used in target shooting competitions and biathalon etc, but I dont remember seeing anything smiliar with handguns, except maybe at shooting ranges for practise.

 

Like I said, I am pretty naive when it comes to hand guns, their use, and ownership....I'm just trying to understand all sides of this issue.

[huntervasili]

You are correct Gerritt.

 

As for the banning of handguns...well those who are calling for it are either nieve, not too bright, wishful thinkers or politicians paying lip service could be all of the above.

 

Maureen

 

 

I agree with this statement... As was also mentioned almost all firearms used in crimes are unregistered so registry doesn't do too much there. Handguns, even if banned in Canada to the general public, would still remain in the hands of criminals and if they wanted to they could cut the barrel and stock off of any long gun and have a concealable firearm... Stricter penalties definitely need to be an option for cold blooded killers and for those who decide to take their chances drinking and driving. How many people would risk getting a DUI if it meant a year in prison for a first offence? instead of 255.1.a(i) for a first offence,...a fine of not less than six hundred dollars" and after that 3 or 5 years rather than 14 days "(ii) for a second offence, to imprisonment for not less than fourteen days" and instead of the 90 days for the third offense (iii) for each subsequent offence, to imprisonment for not less than ninety days" give em even more than the previous two... Do this and you will save alot of lives... DUI is sickening to me. Being in my earlier years, I have figured out how morally wrong it is to do such a thing and would NEVER do so myself... No one has the right to endanger others and take their life in their own hands. Those of you who have been convicted of DUI or have ever done so... SHAME ON YOU, you have no right... Now though that you have experienced it I hope that you would never do so again... How would you like if one day while your kids were walking home from school you got a call? or your while your wife was getting groceries or working... Hopefully some of you can see how immoral such actions are... I'll finish it there but could no doubt go on...

 

If ya don't like my opinion thats fine your entitled, but at least do society a favour and take a cab or have a DD its as easy as that... Why risk you life and that of others over a cab fare?

 

 

Bill

[Deano]

That's what i'm saying, give people the power (right) to protect themselves, which is instilled in us, and just the human attitude will change, resulting in happier people, happier people will result in respect for others. The only part I don't agree with that story Roy, is making it a law. We're all big boys, we can make our own choices.

[huntervasili]

to answer your question Cliff... There are many competitions for sport shooting with pistols, including Olympic events and many leagues throughout the nation and world.

 

Ohh and by the way to use a handgun you must call the CFO and tell them where you are going, for how long and EXACTLY the roads you are taking to get there, If I am not mistaken (what I was told by a Firearms safety course examiner). As well if ya want to go home for lunch you have to call back and get another temporary license to carry it back to the club...

Edited January 22, 2008 by Bill Parker

[ccmtcanada]

to answer your question Cliff... There are many competitions for sport shooting with pistols, including Olympic events and many leagues throughout the nation and world.

 

Thanks Bill...when I said I was naive about them, I wasn't kidding. Do people use them to hunt wild game too?

[huntervasili]

Lol no problem Cliff... They are used by trappers alot and not to hunt game, only in the states is that legal, thats my understanding

[TOM C]

Just to add what I heard on the radio this past week, on the Lowell Green show out of Ottawa and he said that 47% of crimes commited with Guns are by that of the registered owner

 

Unless you can round up every handgun in the world and destroy them all, you will NEVER stop the problem

Edited January 22, 2008 by TOM C

[huntervasili]

Solved crimes none the less, where the weapon was recovered as was the bullet? I assume

[huntervasili]

How about this... The images speak for themselves

 

Look at Switzerland V. Canada The have more firearms per person and household and more Hand guns per person

 

From www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/.../1997/crime-rpt_e.asp

 

And they have less Murders

 

Switzerland

 

Canada

 

From http://dev.prenhall.com/divisions/hss/worl...rence/home.html

Edited January 22, 2008 by Bill Parker

[Deano]

As for DUI, who here really believes that drinking and driving is lower today then it ever was.

Thinking the DUI is down is like believing the speeding is down

First the population is a lot more and people are more stressed, leading to more people using drugs or alcohol.

Here's a little test, go out on a Friday or Saturday night and see the vehicles in the parking lot of your local bars. Most lots are full. Now go back and see the cars there the next morning at around 6 or 7AM. You may see 2 to 5 cars there, are we to believe that the other 50 to 100 cars all were sober drivers. I would have to say no, hell, most people get drunk at home before going out to a bar just to save some money.

[radar]

As TOMC replied, about 50%of the guns used in crimes are stolen from legal gun owners, who may have done everything the law required to store them, but the crooks got them anyway. I was a jail guard in Toronto and spoke with a few gang guys who broke into an apartment and spent 3 days opening the firearms safe of a collector (they got off on that charge by the way). And as for conscience or careful usage, these chickensh** punks would fire at anyone to save face and look cool.

 

For the record I am against banning them, but what about much stricter storage laws. Why couldn't handguns be stored at one central privatized storage facility in an area (I know its much easier to do in Toronto or urban centres) with much more serious security, yet the owners can access them when needed. An inconvenience yes, but the problem is growing.

 

Secondly MUCH more strict penalties. How about:

 

1. 5 years if you illegally possess a gun/ammo

2. 10 years if used in a crime but not discharged.

3. 15 years if discharged

4. 20 If someone is injured.

5. 25 if somone is killed

6. Automatic 25 years no parole on second weapons offence of any kind.